If a government employee is non essential why are we paying them?

[YoungConserv]

Seriously if we can get by when the government is "shutdown" shouldn't we keep it that way and fire those that are unnecessary?

 

[JumpinJack]

Seriously if we can get by when the government is "shutdown" shouldn't we keep it that way and fire those that are unnecessary?

You've never owned a business or worked anywhere, I gather? There are always "essential" people at a company, necessary only for safety and security of the people and the company and the equipment and such. That is not the personnel necessary for the actual running of the business.

For example, sanitation workers who pick up the trash and garbage. Nonessential. But I'm betting that you would consider sanitation workers essential in the long run. But they are nonessential for safety, and security and such in the short term....they are unnecessary for the existence of a city or company in the short term.

The company that prints your paycheck? Nonessential. But I'm betting that you would consider that company essential in the long run. But in the short term, that company will be put on hold....no checks will be cut for certain "companies." (Of course the federal congressional politicians will continue to receive THEIR paychecks.)

Do you need to renew your driver's license? Too bad. Nonessential. You'll have to wait until the shutdown is over. But I'm betting you would think the MVA is essential in the long run, or at least that one office that is within 50 miles of you.

Had you made plans to take your kids to the local museum, especially the "wild things" exhibit? Too bad. Museum is nonessential. You tell me....are museums are worthwhile?

Your spouse's military check that goes toward the mortgage? Find some other to pay that mortgage, 'cause the spouse is furloughed as nonessential. You tell me....does the military with its volunteer army have too many troops hangin' around with nothing to do? Too many, even if there's an emergency?

 

[Thom Paine]

Seriously if we can get by when the government is "shutdown" shouldn't we keep it that way and fire those that are unnecessary?

Oh No !! The ugly head of 'Logic Monster' is rising from the horrific depths of Conservatism.... Its anarchy, I tell ya', its anarchy ! :lamo

That could not work; its too reasonable and monetarily sane.

Gub'mint humor/insanity at the pinnacle of foolishness.

Have a great day, YC

Thom Paine

 

[brothern]

Seriously if we can get by when the government is "shutdown" shouldn't we keep it that way and fire those that are unnecessary?

Necessary in regards to the functioning of the country for the several days that lawmakers are grandstanding. Governmental services like the CDC or passport processing are not "necessary" for the two-three days, but are necessary to keep a functioning country in the longer term.


Certainly there are government programs and functions that can be cut or consolidated, but you cannot judge which those are from the absence of a CR.

 

[YoungConserv]

Necessary in regards to the functioning of the country for the several days that lawmakers are grandstanding. Governmental services like the CDC or passport processing are not "necessary" for the two-three days, but are necessary to keep a functioning country in the longer term.


Certainly there are government programs and functions that can be cut or consolidated, but you cannot judge which those are from the absence of a CR.

Fair enough but maybe that should be the starting point?

 

[Anagram]

Seriously if we can get by when the government is "shutdown" shouldn't we keep it that way and fire those that are unnecessary?

Not really. Maybe some of them, but many of these employees are just people who are not essential for the few days the government is likely to be shutdown. I don't think national park workers or NASA employees for instance are people we should be getting rid of permanently.

 

[Thom Paine]

You've never owned a business or worked anywhere, I gather?

This analogy seems to suffer as an impractical application. Save for the museum comment, all you have listed are generally considered essential. The challenge isn't the fear of entire segments of the gov. closing; it is the exhibition of the need to cull non essential ( redundant ) and inefficient positions and programs. Large operations almost always are over staffed with upper and mid-level management which is where need evaluation should be initially appraised; then the actual producers/positions rated for value. Efficiency, very often, means fewer people; Our Gov. fails to recognize this as evidenced by continued program and personnel growth even in the face of program failure.

No matter the administration, from time to time, our gov. in order to prove its necessity will bully the populace by threatening the loss of services most commonly with security needs and now with convenience services.

This could become a lengthy dissertation though I only wish to encapsulate some basics we as the electorate should better consider.

Have a great day JJ

Thom Paine

 

[Velvet Elvis]

For example, sanitation workers who pick up the trash and garbage. Nonessential. But I'm betting that you would consider sanitation workers essential in the long run. But they are nonessential for safety, and security and such in the short term....they are unnecessary for the existence of a city or company in the short term.

Don't know about where you're from, but where I'm at, these are contracted private businesses.

The company that prints your paycheck? Nonessential. But I'm betting that you would consider that company essential in the long run. But in the short term, that company will be put on hold....no checks will be cut for certain "companies." (Of course the federal congressional politicians will continue to receive THEIR paychecks.)

Again...private companies like A.D.P.

Do you need to renew your driver's license? Too bad. Nonessential. You'll have to wait until the shutdown is over. But I'm betting you would think the MVA is essential in the long run, or at least that one office that is within 50 miles of you.

State-run entities. Not Federal.

Had you made plans to take your kids to the local museum, especially the "wild things" exhibit? Too bad. Museum is nonessential. You tell me....are museums are worthwhile?

Oh, the horrors! Yeah...I guess the little snowflakes will have to wait on that museum trip, and get all their information from school, or the internet.

Your spouse's military check that goes toward the mortgage? Find some other to pay that mortgage, 'cause the spouse is furloughed as nonessential. You tell me....does the military with its volunteer army have too many troops hangin' around with nothing to do? Too many, even if there's an emergency?

Lord 0bama's already said that military funding won't be affected.

 

[Deuce]

Seriously if we can get by when the government is "shutdown" shouldn't we keep it that way and fire those that are unnecessary?

In this context, "essential" really only means "could people die if this person isn't doing their job?"

That doesn't mean the other functions are unimportant.

 

[Deuce]

Here's a personal example:

While Air Traffic Control is still operating, numerous other FAA functions have stopped. Including some pilot and aircraft certification processes. At this moment, it is impossible to get a flight instructor certificate in this country. The FAA examiners who would do that testing are out of work. My company recently added a new aircraft to its fleet for charter operations. This also has some certification hoops to jump through. While irritating to go through, these checks are there to ensure that unsuspecting customers aren't climbing into a freaking death trap. If we had been doing that this month instead of last month, we'd be sitting on a multimillion dollar aircraft that we couldn't legally fly. The two options here:

1) Don't do the checks, who needs an aviation industry, right?
2) Decide we don't need to check and see whether pilots are qualified and aircraft are maintained. Fly anyway. What could go wrong?

 

[YoungConserv]

In this context, "essential" really only means "could people die if this person isn't doing their job?"

That doesn't mean the other functions are unimportant.

I agree but but shouldn't we use this as a bench mark and examine these other services before reinstating them?

 

[JumpinJack]

Don't know about where you're from, but where I'm at, these are contracted private businesses.


Again...private companies like A.D.P.

State-run entities. Not Federal.
Oh, the horrors! Yeah...I guess the little snowflakes will have to wait on that museum trip, and get all their information from school, or the internet.
Lord 0bama's already said that military funding won't be affected.

Those were just examples of workers for various govt entities (yes, sanitation workers where I live are govt employees, as they are in New York). Nonetheless, I gave examples of workers that might be deemed nonessential, whether working for government or companies (during layoffs, for example, the layoffs come from "nonessential" workers).

The examples are valid and show how being deemed nonessential for a limited purpose does not mean a job title is indeed not essential for the business or entity to function properly.

 

[Deuce]

I agree but but shouldn't we use this as a bench mark and examine these other services before reinstating them?

No. See the example I gave you.

Here's a personal example:

While Air Traffic Control is still operating, numerous other FAA functions have stopped. Including some pilot and aircraft certification processes. At this moment, it is impossible to get a flight instructor certificate in this country. The FAA examiners who would do that testing are out of work. My company recently added a new aircraft to its fleet for charter operations. This also has some certification hoops to jump through. While irritating to go through, these checks are there to ensure that unsuspecting customers aren't climbing into a freaking death trap. If we had been doing that this month instead of last month, we'd be sitting on a multimillion dollar aircraft that we couldn't legally fly. The two options here:

1) Don't do the checks, who needs an aviation industry, right?
2) Decide we don't need to check and see whether pilots are qualified and aircraft are maintained. Fly anyway. What could go wrong?

 

[roguenuke]

I agree but but shouldn't we use this as a bench mark and examine these other services before reinstating them?

No. What you propose would cost the government much more money than its worth in the long run. For example, it is essential that there be doctors and nurses at a military hospital all the time. It isn't essential to have the behavior specialists or allergy specialists there in order to ensure people don't die or can't be treated. Those appointments would be rescheduled for a later date. Waiting an extra week or two for those would be inconvenient as hell, but wouldn't put someone in danger. Or shipyard workers. Our ships need to be fixed. But putting the maintenance off for a couple of weeks is not going to actually cause major problems to most ships (depending on the maintenance). And some of the ships' force work could be moved around to be done during the furlough for the civilian shipyard workers to try to keep the schedule from getting too far behind.

Personal problems caused by the furlough. I shop at the commissary, like the vast majority of military families. Here in San Diego, it is the cheapest place for food. It is even likely that if the commissary were shutdown for longer than a couple of weeks, many military families would actually check into getting food stamps (and many would qualify). The commissary saves the government (at least the states) money in the long run. But a few days or couple of weeks of shutdown will not be too devastating on the food budget to most military families. Permanent shutdown would be. (And yes, our main commissary here has been shutdown for the furlough. Other families were talking about a "run" on the commissary because they had to sell off all perishable items anyway and the families knew it could be a while before we are able to go back shopping there. They only opened today likely because we didn't get paid until last night.)

 

[YoungConserv]

No. See the example I gave you.

But that's one side of a huge government there are many other programs that need to be looked at closely.

 

[justabubba]

But that's one side of a huge government there are many other programs that need to be looked at closely.

good on you. please point them out for us and explain why the should no longer be found necessary
i look forward to your fact-based reply