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If a Conservative Reaches High Court, say goodbye to Bill of Rights

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by cnredd:
EX PARTE! EX PARTE! EXPARTE! EX PARTE! EX PARTE! EX PARTE! EX PARTE!

Two EX PARTE walk into a bar....

The team won...they scored three and their opponenets scored EX PARTE....

Shuttle spacewalk earlier....They had to fix the EX PARTE....

Rafael Palmiero got caught with EX PARTE in his system.....

We the People, in order to form a more perfect EX PARTE.....
Is cnredd an anachromym for:

Careless Neo Ridicules Everyone's Democratic Dialogue
 

jamesrage

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That EX PARTE $hit is one of the most gutless and immoral things in our court system. To rule on motions without the other parties present is immoral. Not to give the other party a voice in a decision that affect them goes against our Constitution that a person has the right to face their accusor and cross examine them in a court of law in front of a jury of their peers. I know this was not the point you were making. I'm just fresh off a personal experience with this EX PARTE $hit. So I go a little nuts whenever see this term.

Was it a liberal or was it a conservative who came up with the EX PARTE QUIRIN?

Nothing to say about the Sedition act of 1918?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by jamesrage:
Was it a liberal or was it a conservative who came up with the EX PARTE QUIRIN?

Nothing to say about the Sedition act of 1918?
I don't care who came up with it, I think it's chicken-$hit! As for the "Sedition act", I'm not familiar with it.
 

cnredd

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Billo_Really said:
Is cnredd an anachromym for:

Careless Neo Ridicules Everyone's Democratic Dialogue

OK,OK...That one wasn't bad...

You're still a doofus who can't count and has an irreversible genetic disorder...

But I will give credit where it's due...

I can only assume you had help....
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by cnredd:
OK,OK...That one wasn't bad...

You're still a doofus who can't count and has an irreversible genetic disorder...

But I will give credit where it's due...

I can only assume you had help....
Are you starting to mellow? Soon we'll be like two bud's having brew's at the bar.

Have you seen the new show on FX?
 

cnredd

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Billo_Really said:
Are you starting to mellow? Soon we'll be like two bud's having brew's at the bar.

Have you seen the new show on FX?

No...A broken clock is right twice a day.

You're still clueless...Just because you closed your eyes, swung, and got a hit doesn't make you hot ****.

Remember, you're little shot at me is the same thing that you've accused me of doing for weeks here...By you coming down to "my level" shows that you can't live up to your own standards.

Is this an "I can't beat him; I might as well join him" scenario?

Believe me...I'm not flattered....

You should actually be ashamed of yourself....I've never had a problem with snide remarks...you did; apparently, until now.
 

LaMidRighter

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Billo_Really said:
As for the "Sedition act", I'm not familiar with it.
Sedition is defined as any utterance tending to upset the authority of a standing government, the U.S. Sedition Act of 1918 made speech that was against the U.S. WWI effort punishable by imprisonment or death, if the law was still in effect, we would have quite a few less problems in the senate today IMHO.
 

LaMidRighter

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Billo_Really said:
Name one lie!
How about the mother of all lies that the U.S. Supreme Court "selected" G.W.B., nevermind the fact that all they did was inform the Fl. Supreme court that it overstepped it's bounds by ordering too many recounts with lax standards for what a valid vote was(yes, there were ambiguous ones) when the Florida court was given the chance to fix itself, it "stayed the course" which was deemed a bad judgement, so the SCOTUS had to drop the hammer, and by the way, an independent media recount showed that Bush did win the election by the original margin. Thank you for your time and queries.
 

cnredd

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LaMidRighter said:
How about the mother of all lies that the U.S. Supreme Court "selected" G.W.B., nevermind the fact that all they did was inform the Fl. Supreme court that it overstepped it's bounds by ordering too many recounts with lax standards for what a valid vote was(yes, there were ambiguous ones) when the Florida court was given the chance to fix itself, it "stayed the course" which was deemed a bad judgement, so the SCOTUS had to drop the hammer, and by the way, an independent media recount showed that Bush did win the election by the original margin. Thank you for your time and queries.

You're using facts to get a point accross to Billo...He won't understand.

May I suggest you draw a picture in his mash potatoes with a fork?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by LaMidRighter:
Sedition is defined as any utterance tending to upset the authority of a standing government, the U.S. Sedition Act of 1918 made speech that was against the U.S. WWI effort punishable by imprisonment or death, if the law was still in effect, we would have quite a few less problems in the senate today IMHO.
Now I get it. This is what I would say to that...

"If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth--certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn."
- Thoreau

"Men of passive tempers look somewhat lightly over the offenses of Britain, and, still hoping for the best, are apt to call out, 'Come, we shall be friends again for all this.'" Did you lose your house to fire, your property to theft, or does your family lack a bed to sleep on or food to nourish them because of British transgressions, Paine asks. Did they kill a parent or child and leave you a "ruined and wretched survivor?" If they did and you can still shake hands with "the murderers, then whatever may be your rank or title in life, you have the heart of a coward, and the spirit of a sycophant."
- Thomas Paine
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by cnredd:
Remember, you're little shot at me is the same thing that you've accused me of doing for weeks here...By you coming down to "my level" shows that you can't live up to your own standards.
I didn't come down to your level, I came over to your level. Don't beat yourself up so much!

But's its nice to see that you know what you have been "...doing for weeks".
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by LaMidRighter:
How about the mother of all lies that the U.S. Supreme Court "selected" G.W.B., nevermind the fact that all they did was inform the Fl. Supreme court that it overstepped it's bounds by ordering too many recounts with lax standards for what a valid vote was(yes, there were ambiguous ones) when the Florida court was given the chance to fix itself, it "stayed the course" which was deemed a bad judgement, so the SCOTUS had to drop the hammer, and by the way, an independent media recount showed that Bush did win the election by the original margin. Thank you for your time and queries.
I can think of bigger lies that would be classified as a "Mother."
 

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I don't care who came up with it, I think it's chicken-$hit! As for the "Sedition act", I'm not familiar with it.

Chicken ****?Are you aware that the EX PARTE QUIRIN kept the scumbag lawers from representing nazi spies until WWII was over?As for who came up with it or wo responsible for it's creation was FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT.

As for the sedition act

SECTION 3. Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States, or to promote the success of its enemies, or shall willfully make or convey false reports, or false statements, . . . or incite insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or shall willfully obstruct . . . the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, or . . . shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States, or the military or naval forces of the United States . . . or shall willfully display the flag of any foreign enemy, or shall willfully . . . urge, incite, or advocate any curtailment of production . . . or advocate, teach, defend, or suggest the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated and whoever shall by word or act support or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war or by word or act oppose the cause of the United States therein, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both...
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by jamesrage:
Chicken ****?Are you aware that the EX PARTE QUIRIN kept the scumbag lawers from representing nazi spies until WWII was over?As for who came up with it or wo responsible for it's creation was FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT.
So what! I think it is chicken-$hit to make decisions about a party without that party being present and given the opportunity to rebut.

Originally posted by jamesrage:
As for the sedition act

Quote:
SECTION 3. Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States, or to promote the success of its enemies, or shall willfully make or convey false reports, or false statements, . . . or incite insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or shall willfully obstruct . . . the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, or . . . shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States, or the military or naval forces of the United States . . . or shall willfully display the flag of any foreign enemy, or shall willfully . . . urge, incite, or advocate any curtailment of production . . . or advocate, teach, defend, or suggest the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated and whoever shall by word or act support or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war or by word or act oppose the cause of the United States therein, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both...
Thank you for enlightening me. Now that I know what the Sedition Act is, its quite a relief to know that I still obey the laws. Even the ones I didn't know about. Because there is not one post I have made in this forum that has been proven false. But there have been many posts I've made that have immediately been treated as ridiculous or anti-American without going thru any process of discovery.

Although not a crime, many on this forum do not exhibit the following:

Apparent reversal of benefit of the doubt
In most legal systems the courts give the benefit of the doubt to the person who is being tried. Depending on the applicable burden of proof, he or she is presumed to be innocent until the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, or to the balance of probabilities, that this is not the case.

Once the offended party meets the burden of proof that the publisher made a defamatory statement, the untruth of that statement is presumed, so that the burden of proving it was true and/or in the public interest falls onto the publisher of the statement.

This prevents the victim from being essentially "tried" in the media or anywhere else outside a legal system. The victim remains innocent and the burden of proof properly is shifted to the publisher of the statement (the accuser). Without this protection, the victim of a defamatory statement would have to prove his innocence in order to prevail. With this protection, the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" partially is extended to anyone accused outside the legal system.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech
 

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Originally Posted by Billo_Really
So what! I think it is chicken-$hit to make decisions about a party without that party being present and given the opportunity to rebut.

I would have to say that the reason for the EX PARTE QUIRIN was to make sure that the spies had no chance of making contact with the outside world while the U.S. was at war.Spies are very resourceful and would exploit the lawer to deliver letters to alledge family or perhaps force the government to reveal how they uncovered the spy in the first place to the outside world.

Here is one of my favorite quotes that you can read which is the other half of my signature.




"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear."

Marcus Tullius Cicero
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by jamesrage:
Here is one of my favorite quotes that you can read which is the other half of my signature.

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear."
Are you saying it is "treason" to protest government when its leaders do not obey the law of the land? When their actions will do more harm than good to the nation.
 

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Originally Posted by Billo_Really
Are you saying it is "treason" to protest government when its leaders do not obey the law of the land? When their actions will do more harm than good to the nation.

All I am saying is that spies are very resourceful and that the quote basicly sums up what they do,the government has the responsibility to make sure that these spies do not have contact with the outside world.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by jamesrage:
All I am saying is that spies are very resourceful and that the quote basicly sums up what they do,the government has the responsibility to make sure that these spies do not have contact with the outside world.
You lost me. I'm not following what your saying.
 

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You lost me. I'm not following what your saying.

During a time of war the government has a responsibility to make sure the spies and enemy combatants that are caught are not let back into society.The EX PARTE QUIRIN ensures that these people are not let back into society during war time.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by jamesrage:
During a time of war the government has a responsibility to make sure the spies and enemy combatants that are caught are not let back into society.The EX PARTE QUIRIN ensures that these people are not let back into society during war time.
Without compromising national security, how do they decide who is a spy or enemy combatant other than the obvious (ie., strapping explosives to your person, posting info on known terrorist websites, financial assistance to know terror cells, etc.). I'm just winging it here.

I know for me, if I see Bin Laden in my nieghborhood, I call 911. If I see any crime, I do my civic duty and notify the authority having jurisdiction. Other than that, I have to leave it up to the people trained to do so.

But I do know one thing, no one is guilty by accusation in this country. Not even an alleged terrorist. If he goes thru due process, and then found to be one, throw the book at him. But you don't treat someone like they are one [a terrorist], unless they have been tried in front of a jury of their peers.

Forgive me, but I'm still not clear on the mechanics of how "...EX PARTE QUIRIN..." manifests in order to "...ensure..." these people.
 

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Billo_Really said:
Without compromising national security, how do they decide who is a spy or enemy combatant other than the obvious (ie., strapping explosives to your person, posting info on known terrorist websites, financial assistance to know terror cells, etc.). I'm just winging it here.

.
Would the enemy combatants at Gitmo, Cuba be considered terrorist in your eyes or do you think they should get an American trial. Most of these combatants were captured during real war situations at the battle of Afganastan. The fact that they were not organized and uniformed like a real army of a country is what keeps them from the prisoner of war status.(which also keeps them from protections from the Geneava Convention Treaty.)
 

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Conservative Judges are not the activist judges that are legislating from the bench. The Suprem Court has become a poltical branch of the gov..That is why Roberts is being examined by what his political views are. It takes a liberal judge to make ruling on seperation of church and state (not in the constitution) and right to privacy(not in the constitution). Liberal judges will even refer to laws in other countries to make a decision. How is that interpeting our constitution?
 

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Originally posted by alienken:
Conservative Judges are not the activist judges that are legislating from the bench. The Suprem Court has become a poltical branch of the gov..That is why Roberts is being examined by what his political views are. It takes a liberal judge to make ruling on seperation of church and state (not in the constitution) and right to privacy(not in the constitution). Liberal judges will even refer to laws in other countries to make a decision. How is that interpeting our constitution?
I think they are.

Excerpts from Bill of Rights (which is in the Constitution):
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by jamesrage:
Would the enemy combatants at Gitmo, Cuba be considered terrorist in your eyes or do you think they should get an American trial. Most of these combatants were captured during real war situations at the battle of Afganastan. The fact that they were not organized and uniformed like a real army of a country is what keeps them from the prisoner of war status.(which also keeps them from protections from the Geneava Convention Treaty.)
I think if we do not follow the tenants that this country was based on, then the terrorists win. Everyone deserves due process no matter who they are or what they have done. EVERYONE! And we do not torture anyone under any condition for any reason. We should follow the Geneva Conventions to the letter.

Anyone trying to make a case to justify renditions, and what we are doing to prisoners during interrogation at GITMO and Abu Ghraib, is lower than garbage in my book.
 

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Billo_Really said:
I think if we do not follow the tenants that this country was based on, then the terrorists win. Everyone deserves due process no matter who they are or what they have done. EVERYONE! And we do not torture anyone under any condition for any reason. We should follow the Geneva Conventions to the letter.

Anyone trying to make a case to justify renditions, and what we are doing to prisoners during interrogation at GITMO and Abu Ghraib, is lower than garbage in my book.
1).If you think prisoners of war should have access to our courts, think about the mess that would make. The enemy has a platform for spreading there propaganda and our military would always get dumped on because the one thing defense lawyers do is make the defendant look like a victim.Do you really mean- everyone deserves due process? EVERYONE?! The only thing a terrorist deserves is a bullet in the head.2). Yes we do follow GC even though it does not apply because that is the kind of country we are.There is no torture being done in Gitmo and there wasn't any in Abu Ghraib.
 
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