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Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain First!"

Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

Fearandloathing said:
Nope. Not in a parliamentary democracy. The prime minister is not the head of state, thus it will require a parliamentary vote AND passage in the House of Lords.

The common wisdom now is that they will simply let it die.
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If they just let it die, they are in effect, a dictatorship.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

ObamacareFail said:
If they just let it die, they are in effect, a dictatorship.
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Once again, it is a matter of political reality. However, there has been a huge shift of power with the 'exit' of Boris Johnson from the leadership of the Conservative Party. Even though there are no "stay" candidates among the five current contenders, observers see the issue as a very divided issue, some suggesting that any new prime minister should, by parliamentary tradition, face the people in a general election.

As an observer of parliament, I suspect this is going to get a lot messier before it gets better. Even if a pro-exit candidate wins, he or she will, by law, have to face a vote in parliament. In the meantime, while the Conservatives beat on each other in the shortest leadership campaign in parliamentary history, the "stay" side will continue to wage its own campaign.

From a political science perspective they screwed up by note defining an "absolute majority" which has become the norm.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

ObamacareFail said:
If they just let it die, they are in effect, a dictatorship.
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So does that mean the US is a dictatorship because the filibuster is used?

I read somewhere the filibuster has been used 1300 times since 1917 in the US so you have been a dictatorship since 1917? You have to be careful about those sweeping statements and generalisations of yours.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

Fearandloathing said:
Once again, it is a matter of political reality. However, there has been a huge shift of power with the 'exit' of Boris Johnson from the leadership of the Conservative Party.
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Boris has never been a part of the 'leadership of the Conservative Party'.

Even though there are no "stay" candidates among the five current contenders,
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Two of the five current contenders were involved with the remain campaign: Theresa May and Stepehen Crabb.

observers see the issue as a very divided issue, some suggesting that any new prime minister should, by parliamentary tradition, face the people in a general election.
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Many people think they should do, but they don't have to.

From a political science perspective they screwed up by note defining an "absolute majority" which has become the norm.
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They certainly did that, but it was far from their only mistake.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

Fearandloathing said:
Once again, it is a matter of political reality. However, there has been a huge shift of power with the 'exit' of Boris Johnson from the leadership of the Conservative Party. Even though there are no "stay" candidates among the five current contenders, observers see the issue as a very divided issue, some suggesting that any new prime minister should, by parliamentary tradition, face the people in a general election.

As an observer of parliament, I suspect this is going to get a lot messier before it gets better. Even if a pro-exit candidate wins, he or she will, by law, have to face a vote in parliament. In the meantime, while the Conservatives beat on each other in the shortest leadership campaign in parliamentary history, the "stay" side will continue to wage its own campaign.

From a political science perspective they screwed up by note defining an "absolute majority" which has become the norm.
Click to expand...


If I were a betting man, I would bet you that article 50 will be invoked and parliament will go along with it. Though I don't see it being invoked before the end of the year.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

Glen Contrarian said:
I didn't compare the vote to racial discrimination - I said that racism was a significant factor in the vote...or have you not read anything about the significant spike in hate crimes immediately after the vote?



'Scuse you, but WHERE did I EVER say or even imply that I wanted to 'rig' votes or "censor people...from voting"? Dude. You need to learn to actually read what people DO say...and not make assumptions about what you want to believe about that person.



For the third time, how much time have you actually spent in Europe (including in England)? Since you've not answered the question the first two times, that would usually indicate that (1) you've never been there, and that (2) (unlike some) you're not willing to lie to say you've been there. And if I am right on both counts, good on you for refusing to lie.

That said, I personally know people in England (we were in London and Paris last fall), we've got family in Italy, and friends in Greece (and a little over two weeks ago we got back from Italy and Greece - credit cards are close to maxed out now). That's why I'm demanding that you tell me exactly why it is that you believe that the EU's so doggone terrible, so tyrannical as you seem to believe...because whatever you may see on your computer screen or on the boob tube, I know what I've seen first-hand, and what kind of life my friends and family have over there.
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No, I havn't been there. Like you, I'm friends with people that live there. Guess what? Neither really matters, because that is closed survey to a much larger pool that is available. Like you, I know of the situation. Unlike you, I know how to comprehend the situation. I never said the EU was tyrannical (maybe you should be the one to learn to read, because you've literally comprehended nothing I've said), but now that you bring it up, I can say they aren't the best policy for every nation there. Even if they weren't, that still doesn't mean a country shouldn't be allowed to vote to leave. That doesn't mean certain people aren't allowed to make that vote.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

Infinite Chaos said:
So does that mean the US is a dictatorship because the filibuster is used?

I read somewhere the filibuster has been used 1300 times since 1917 in the US so you have been a dictatorship since 1917? You have to be careful about those sweeping statements and generalisations of yours.
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Sorry....I cannot take that strawman argument seriously. There is a big difference between a vote by the citizens and filibusters in congress.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

ObamacareFail said:
Sorry....I cannot take that strawman argument seriously. There is a big difference between a vote by the citizens and filibusters in congress.
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Logic doesn't appear to be your forte if you mistake the argument presented with straw man.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

this is a laugh, the people who always clamor for democracy and power of the people and their vote, are pissed because that is exactly what happened.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

Post above = classic strawman.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

What would be interesting to learn is what specific mandate the people of Britain have exactly voted for. That the overall mandate given is that of leaving the EU is pretty clear and requires no further dispute. But under any and all conditions?

What mandate will anyone negotiating the terms of exiting actually be able to claim? Access to the single market is so important that free movement of EU citizens will have to be accepted after all? Curbing free movement is so important that access to the market be damned?

And in either case, where's the legitimization of either negotiating position coming from?

Where's democracy and the power of the people in any of that?
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

Like it or not the UK will leave the EU. All that is in play is the time scale. This is something that I have been awaiting for thirty years and I wake each morning with a smile on my face.

Happy Independence Day American's! We Brits will have one of our own soon.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

Chagos said:
Logic doesn't appear to be your forte if you mistake the argument presented with straw man.
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Well at least I am not silly enough to use a parliamentary tool as a strawman for citizen voting.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

ObamacareFail said:
Well at least I am not silly enough to use a parliamentary tool as a strawman for citizen voting.
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No, you were silly enough to equate it with representing a dictatorship.
 
Re: Idiots! The UK's right wing burns down the world's economy because "Britain Firs

ObamacareFail said:
If they just let it die, they are in effect, a dictatorship.
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ObamacareFail said:
Well at least I am not silly enough to use a parliamentary tool as a strawman for citizen voting.
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Care to expand on your first statement without the "dictatorship" hyperbole then?
 
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