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IDF senior officer killed in ambush by Lebanese Army sniper

bub

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Again, the tree was not on the Lebanese side, it was on an Israeli side beyond the Israeli security fence, and the Israeli action was a routine action that has happened dozens of times before (and will happen in the future) and was like always coordinated with the UNIFIL forces, which have determined that the Lebanese fire was unwarranted (I gave a link a few pages ago).

I think it's irrelevant to know where the tree was located. Even if it was on the Lebanese side, that would not have justified the shootings.

I think both sides are probably guilty: those who have started shooting, and those who have replied.
 

Apocalypse

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I think it's irrelevant to know where the tree was located. Even if it was on the Lebanese side, that would not have justified the shootings.

I think both sides are probably guilty: those who have started shooting, and those who have replied.

I think the Israeli response was very weak and minimal.
A Lt. Colonel was killed by Lebanese army soldiers, while he was deep within Israeli land. You don't merely throw a few artillery shells at some Lebanese army outposts and go to sleep.

However as long as the escalation ends there, Israel shouldn't respond further.
 

Mira

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Yes we do, it is not disputed that the Lebanese have opened fire on the Israelis. The argument of the Lebanese was that Israelis have entered their territory, but that was false as well.

BBC News - Israel-Lebanon border clash kills five people


Please stick to the facts, Mira.



Even if the Lebanese version is correct they are still those at fault here. You don't shoot people because they cut a tree in your territory.
The UNIFIL soldiers that were witnessing this incident have claimed that the Lebanese fire was unwarranted.


your BBC article says this:

"A Lebanese army spokesman said troops had fired warning shots and Israel had responded with fire from artillery positions and helicopters."

Yes, I agree that it's VERY stupid to fire warning shots even if the Lebanese were offended that the Israelis felt free to cut a tree on Lebanese territory.

Tell me though, how would the Israelis respond if the Lebanese cut a tree in Israel ?
 
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bub

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I think the Israeli response was very weak and minimal.
A Lt. Colonel was killed by Lebanese army soldiers, while he was deep within Israeli land. You don't merely throw a few artillery shells at some Lebanese army outposts and go to sleep.

However as long as the escalation ends there, Israel shouldn't respond further.

That's the Israeli version, I think the Lebanese say they merely fired warning shots.
 

Apocalypse

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Look carfully Apocalypse

You see the road?
The specific road is located exactly 80 meters south from the blue line, the official border between Israel and Lebanon.
Calculate the meters from that road to the tree.
 

Mira

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I think the Israeli response was very weak and minimal.
A Lt. Colonel was killed by Lebanese army soldiers, while he was deep within Israeli land. You don't merely throw a few artillery shells at some Lebanese army outposts and go to sleep.

However as long as the escalation ends there, Israel shouldn't respond further.

Of course 1 dead against 4. It's proportionally what we're used to, they should do better next time.

There is no proof yet that the Lebanese shot and killed the Israeli commander first.
 

alexa

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Yes we do, it is not disputed that the Lebanese have opened fire on the Israelis. The argument of the Lebanese was that Israelis have entered their territory, but that was false as well.

BBC News - Israel-Lebanon border clash kills five people


Please stick to the facts, Mira.



Even if the Lebanese version is correct they are still those at fault here. You don't shoot people because they cut a tree in your territory.
The UNIFIL soldiers that were witnessing this incident have claimed that the Lebanese fire was unwarranted.

Actually Apoc, the BBC headline may say that but if you read the story the Lebanese say they fired warning shots which were met with live fire. It doesn't actually say when the Lebanese used live fire.

I don't think it was a provocation, that would be ridiculous. I do suspect it might be something to do with being so close and shouting things at each other. Hopefully both can act a bit more professionally so no one else need die.
 

Mira

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You see the road?
The specific road is located exactly 80 meters south from the blue line, the official border between Israel and Lebanon.
Calculate the meters from that road to the tree.

Apocalyse, look carefully I said. There is a road between the fences, that's where the vehicles are and on each side of the fences is Lebanon and Israel. LOOK CAREFULLY.
 

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your BBC article says this:

"A Lebanese army spokesman said troops had fired warning shots and Israel had responded with fire from artillery positions and helicopters."

Yes, I agree that it's VERY stupid to fire warning shots even if the Lebanese were offended that the Israelis felt free to cut a tree on Lebanese territory.

Tell me though, how would the Israelis respond if the Lebanese cut a tree in Israel ?

The Lebanese would not cut a tree in Israel, and Israel would not cut a tree in Lebanon.
There are things that aren't worth the risks, and cutting a tree in another nation is grounds for diplomatic escalation (in this case mainly physical escalation).

As to the warning shots, those are contradicted claims, and the Lebanese officials claim in the same article that they did indeed open fire on the soldiers.
But that's irrelavent because we know for certain that the IDF soldiers have died from the initial shots since that's why Israel has responded fire with artillery shells.
 
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Apocalypse

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Apocalyse, look carefully I said. There is a road between the fences, that's where the vehicles are and on each side of the fences is Lebanon and Israel. LOOK CAREFULLY.

I looked carefully.

Reuters AlertNet - UN council urges Israel, Lebanon to show restraint

Reuters said:
Israel's U.N. Ambassador Daniel Carmon said the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) were carrying out "routine maintenance work" on a road 80 meters (yards) south of the Blue Line.

The road is as I said 80 meters south to the blue line. The tree is a few meters north from the road. The fences are not the blue lines.
 

Mira

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where is the buffer zone ?

SDC11272-1.jpg
 

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Notice the picture with the U.N. soldier waving a flag. exact same setting as my picture.

well I don't know the turf like you Mira so can't make it out so well but from that picture it does seem there is only one fence unless you call that white fence a fence!

What reason would the Lebanese have to want to provoke Israel?

Edit: Is the UN warning them?
 
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Demon of Light

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I can't even begin to describe how annoying it is for people to cite Israeli media and statements from Israeli officials as though they were unquestionable facts. This is why Israel's defenders always think they're right and why they are often wrong.

Let's just look at what Lebanese media are saying:

“It started when the Israelis wanted to cut down a tree inside Lebanon. The Lebanese Army fired warning shots at them and they responded by shelling,” said a Lebanese security source.

“An Israeli enemy patrol crossed on Tuesday the Blue Line at the Lebanese-Palestinian borders surrounding Adaysseh town,” the statement said. “The enemy’s patrol, however, went forward despite the UNIFIL’s intervention to stop it.

“Hence, the Lebanese Army confronted the enemy’s forces with weapons and rocket-propelled grenades.”

Singh told The Daily Star that UNIFIL was unaware of any coordination between Israel and its peacekeeping contingent, but stressed an investigation was ongoing.

Potentially crucial is the fact that a Beirut correspondent for Al-Jazeera reported that the Lebanese Army on Sunday rejected a request from Israel to carry out the tree cutting.

Source: The Daily Star

So let's get things situated here:

1. Israel built a fence meant to mark the border, but in some places it in fact does not.

2. Many tend to see the fence as the border as a result.

3. Lebanon refuses to allow Israel to remove a tree.

4. Israel apparently does not inform UNIFIL about their plans.

5. While removing the tree the Lebanese fire warning shots to get the Israelis to stop.

6. Israeli forces respond like it's an attack and obviously go overboard.

I would say this is no country's fault, but it seems to me Israel is being the most touchy. Honestly, anyone painting this as anything more than a bad misunderstanding is obviously just looking to exploit a tragedy.
 

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well I don't know the turf like you Mira so can't make it out so well but from that picture it does seem there is only one fence unless you call that white fence a fence!

What reason would the Lebanese have to want to provoke Israel?

There is a road between two fences where the Israelis patrol.

Lebanon has no reason and especially NO INTEREST to provoke Israel. Hizbollah did in 2006 and the country was levelled, the Lebanese army ?:doh, they never have provoked Israel I really don't see why they would now.
 

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I really don't want to imagine how Israeli soldiers would react if the Lebanese decided one day to uproot a tree on the Israeli side.

Anyway, hope this will not go overboard. May the 5 victims R.I.P
 
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alexa

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There is a road between two fences where the Israelis patrol.

Lebanon has no reason and especially NO INTEREST to provoke Israel. Hizbollah did in 2006 and the country was levelled, the Lebanese army ?:doh, they never have provoked Israel I really don't see why they would now.

It certainly would seem foolish to me but apparently Israel believes that. The paper also said
Witnesses said Israeli artillery also fired at the village. :(

Read more: The Daily Star - Politics - Lebanese, Israeli troops clash along Blue Line
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: Lebanon News :: Middle East News :: The Daily Star - Lebanon)


Mira I am sure I have drifted on things saying that Lebanon is expecting confrontation from Israel soon. Is this true and why.
 

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It certainly would seem foolish to me but apparently Israel believes that. The paper also said


Mira I am sure I have drifted on things saying that Lebanon is expecting confrontation from Israel soon. Is this true and why.

yes, I prefer not to talk about it on this forum. Anyway, I'm off to bed and off on holiday tomorrow. Hope this won't be another bloody summer :(
 

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yes, I prefer not to talk about it on this forum. Anyway, I'm off to bed and off on holiday tomorrow. Hope this won't be another bloody summer :(

Ok, I am going to sleep now too and I certainly hope it will not be a bloody summer.
 

Degreez

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where is the buffer zone ?

SDC11272-1.jpg

What's hilarious is that Israel expects to exercise authority in the buffer zone, while condemning Lebanon for exercising jurisdiction within its territory. What Apocalypse has yet to state is that the IDF requested permission from UNIFIL to operate and do maintainence in the area, but were turned down because it would have been a violation of UNSCR 1701 (8b). Of course, Israel does not care for UN Security Council Resolutions (which is a violation of the UN Charter). How many times have Israeli warplanes trespassed into Lebanese airspace since Security Council Resolution 1701 was passed?
 

washunut

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What's hilarious is that Israel expects to exercise authority in the buffer zone, while condemning Lebanon for exercising jurisdiction within its territory. What Apocalypse has yet to state is that the IDF requested permission from UNIFIL to operate and do maintainence in the area, but were turned down because it would have been a violation of UNSCR 1701 (8b). Of course, Israel does not care for UN Security Council Resolutions (which is a violation of the UN Charter). How many times have Israeli warplanes trespassed into Lebanese airspace since Security Council Resolution 1701 was passed?

So that is the justification for killing people, because they stepped on someone else's territory. Sounds pretty barbaric to me. But if that works maybe Israel should just let it be known that if you kill a sodier for little justification then we will kill 100 of your soldiers.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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So that is the justification for killing people, because they stepped on someone else's territory. Sounds pretty barbaric to me. But if that works maybe Israel should just let it be known that if you kill a sodier for little justification then we will kill 100 of your soldiers.

Then you should be upset at this

On 01 Feb 06, a young shepherd boy was killed by an IDF patrol near an abandon goat farm called Bastarra. Hassan Nasrallah (note: Hezbollah's leader) vowed that there would be consequences to this action. Team Sierra was tasked on 2 Feb 06, to assist in the investigation of the incident, and we sent one team to do so while the other team conducted its normal mobile patrolling activities.
A Canadian soldier's report from South Lebanon - CTV News

Should Lebanon kill 100 Israeli civilians because that?
 

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That doesn't make any sense. :confused: I guess the extremist of Eco friendly people ( Green Peace) must be happy that this man lost his life over a freaking tree.

Forget Green Peace, nobody asked the tree if it was happy the cutter was appropriately "dealt with" for what Treebeard would certainly consider a "Capital Crime".
 
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