Idaho is NOT a Christian state, FFRF reminds its Lt. Gov.

[Gordy327]

Don't you skeptics EVER do your homework?

Christians in Idaho 67%

Atheists and Agnostics 5%

Religious Landscape Study

Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups.

www.pewresearch.org

Also, the Constitution was written to secure the God-given rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, so it assumes the same divine God and providence as in the DOI. So right away, your contention that the Constitution is secular totally ignores the presumption of where our rights originate to begin with - from God. Thus, your OP is nonsense.

The Constitution does not mention God or religion, save for the freedom of. It is not based on God or religion either. It is a secular document which also establishes the separation of church and state. The Founding Fathers were quite clear about that too. Rights are enumerated, but not sourced to God. The DoI is merely a declaration of our sovereignty as a nation.

 

[devildavid]

Don't you skeptics EVER do your homework?

Christians in Idaho 67%

Atheists and Agnostics 5%

Religious Landscape Study

Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups.

www.pewresearch.org

Also, the Constitution was written to secure the God-given rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, so it assumes the same divine God and providence as in the DOI. So right away, your contention that the Constitution is secular totally ignores the presumption of where our rights originate to begin with - from God. Thus, your OP is nonsense.

Idaho is not a Christian state no matter how many Christians live there.

The Constitution was written without reference to any god at all. Our rights are protected by the government, not by god. God has never protected anyone's rights in history.

 

[Questerr]

Don't you skeptics EVER do your homework?

Christians in Idaho 67%

Atheists and Agnostics 5%

Religious Landscape Study

Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups.

www.pewresearch.org

Also, the Constitution was written to secure the God-given rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, so it assumes the same divine God and providence as in the DOI. So right away, your contention that the Constitution is secular totally ignores the presumption of where our rights originate to begin with - from God. Thus, your OP is nonsense.

Which god? Because the drafters of both the Constitution and DOI overwhelming and multiple times rejected any attempts to mention Jesus in the texts.

 

[Gordy327]

Which god? Because the drafters of both the Constitution and DOI overwhelming and multiple ones rejected any attempts to mention Jesus in the texts.

It's hilarious when Christian Apologetics/Dominionists try to argue the Constitution has religious overtones is based on religion/God in some way. That's as willfully ignorant and dishonest as the claim the US is a Christian nation.

 

[Deuce]

Don't you skeptics EVER do your homework?

Christians in Idaho 67%

Atheists and Agnostics 5%

Religious Landscape Study

Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups.

www.pewresearch.org

Also, the Constitution was written to secure the God-given rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, so it assumes the same divine God and providence as in the DOI. So right away, your contention that the Constitution is secular totally ignores the presumption of where our rights originate to begin with - from God. Thus, your OP is nonsense.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, Signed by President John Adams. Unanimously ratified in the Senate.

If we accept your premise that the Constitution is a religious document, then it must be referencing a different religion. Islam, perhaps.

 

[Logicman]

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, Signed by President John Adams. Unanimously ratified in the Senate.

Tsk tsk.

Article 11 (which is in dispute, by the way) of the Treaty of Tripoli merely says that the government of America is not founded on the Christian religion (as in a theocracy). This does not mean that the majority of Americans were not of the Christian faith, and it certainly doesn't address the numerous Judeo-Christian principles upon which our country was founded. In those respects, it falls short in describing America.

Also,

"A further fact needs to be considered as well: there are multiple Treaties of Tripoli. In 1801, the 1797 treaty was broken when Tripoli attacked American shipping after the United States refused to pay more tribute. This led to the First Barbary War – immortalized in the Marine Corps hymn lyric “to the shores of Tripoli – which ended with the signing of a second Treaty of Tripoli. This treaty was very similar to the original with a few notable exceptions, the most notable of which is the clause declaring that the United States is “not in any way founded on the Christian Religion” is completely missing."

Secularists, please stop quoting the Treaty of Tripoli

I’m writing today to beseech my fellow secularists with a simple request: please, for the love of god (in the colloquial sense), stop quoting the Treaty of Tripoli.

www.patheos.com

Finally, considering that God-hating secularists have been wearing out lawyers for the last 100+ years trying to get all the vestiges of Christianity erased from our halls of government, schools, and public square, etc., America must have been more of a Christian nation than they will ever admit.

 

[Logicman]

It's hilarious when Christian Apologetics/Dominionists try to argue the Constitution has religious overtones is based on religion/God in some way. That's as willfully ignorant and dishonest as the claim the US is a Christian nation.

Yet another pile of steamy refuse from Gordy327.

The Constitution was written to secure the God-given rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, so it assumes the same divine God and providence as in the DOI. So right away, your contention that the Constitution is secular totally ignores the presumption of where our rights originate to begin with - from God.

Next, note how the Scriptures state that at least two witnesses are necessary to decide critical matters of conviction (note Deuteronomy 17:6; Numbers 35:30). Article III, Section 3, Paragraph 1 states: “No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open court.” Again, a Biblical foundation clearly understood by Christian and Biblical framers.

We also have the Lord’s Day that is honored among Christians. Article I, Section 7, Paragraph 2 states, “If any bill shall not be returned by the President within 10 days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him……” This clause was an obvious accommodation to Christians in America.

Finally, there's also the "Year of OUR Lord" phrase in the ending: (signed) “the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.”

Recommended reading for Gordy:

 

[Gordy327]

Yet another pile of steamy refuse from Gordy327.

Don't project your failings onto me.

The Constitution was written to secure the God-given rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, so it assumes the same divine God and providence as in the DOI. So right away, your contention that the Constitution is secular totally ignores the presumption of where our rights originate to begin with - from God.

That is your assumption. I've heard the same BS from christian history revisionists before too. The Constitution does not mention or reference god. It does not establish a religious system or influence of government (it does the exact opposite) and the Constitution itself is based on the Magna Carta and the Principles of Enlightenment. The DoI does not establish our rights or system of laws and government either. It was written in a way to appeal to the King of England, as head of the Church. The DoI itself doesn't even say "God." It mentions "Creator," which is more vague than a explicit reference to "God." John Adams makes this abundantly clear in his work, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States of America', 1787 [emphasis mine]:

The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature: and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had any interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the inspiration of heaven, any more than those at work upon ships or houses, or labouring in merchandize or agriculture: it will for ever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

Btw, the "Year of the Lord" was the system of dating used in those times, much like we use mo/dd/yr now. If that's the best you can offer, then you have nothing. But I already knew that!

 

[Deuce]

Tsk tsk.

Article 11 (which is in dispute, by the way) of the Treaty of Tripoli merely says that the government of America is not founded on the Christian religion (as in a theocracy). This does not mean that the majority of Americans were not of the Christian faith, and it certainly doesn't address the numerous Judeo-Christian principles upon which our country was founded. In those respects, it falls short in describing America.

Also,

"A further fact needs to be considered as well: there are multiple Treaties of Tripoli. In 1801, the 1797 treaty was broken when Tripoli attacked American shipping after the United States refused to pay more tribute. This led to the First Barbary War – immortalized in the Marine Corps hymn lyric “to the shores of Tripoli – which ended with the signing of a second Treaty of Tripoli. This treaty was very similar to the original with a few notable exceptions, the most notable of which is the clause declaring that the United States is “not in any way founded on the Christian Religion” is completely missing."

Secularists, please stop quoting the Treaty of Tripoli

I’m writing today to beseech my fellow secularists with a simple request: please, for the love of god (in the colloquial sense), stop quoting the Treaty of Tripoli.

www.patheos.com

Finally, considering that God-hating secularists have been wearing out lawyers for the last 100+ years trying to get all the vestiges of Christianity erased from our halls of government, schools, and public square, etc., America must have been more of a Christian nation than they will ever admit.

So, your personal definition of "Christian Nation" is just a nation with a lot of Christians in it? Because sure, we're a nation with a lot of Christians in it. That has never been in question.

Which "Judeo-Christian principles" are you referring to?

 

[Gordy327]

So, your personal definition of "Christian Nation" is just a nation with a lot of Christians in it? Because sure, we're a nation with a lot of Christians in it. That has never been in question.

Yeah, I've heard christian dominionists and revisionists make that claim before too. It's basically an argumentum ad populum fallacy.

 

[Deuce]

Yeah, I've heard christian dominionists and revisionists make that claim before too. It's basically an argumentum ad populum fallacy.

I also wonder what "Judeo-Christian principles" they think are specific to their religion AND specific to this country. Many Christians I have heard make various claims that morals only come from (their) god, and that's deeply disturbing.

 

[Gordy327]

I also wonder what "Judeo-Christian principles" they think are specific to their religion AND specific to this country.

I have yet to hear any. There's certainly nothing unique or exclusive to christianity that cannot be found in other religions or systems.

Many Christians I have heard make various claims that morals only come from (their) god, and that's deeply disturbing.

That's an understatement. Especially since god is one of the most immoral ogre's ever imagined. Even the bible makes that abundantly clear.

 

[Logicman]

So, your personal definition of "Christian Nation" is just a nation with a lot of Christians in it? Because sure, we're a nation with a lot of Christians in it. That has never been in question.

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States concluded in 1892 that America was a Christian nation, i.e.

"Justice David Brewer wrote the majority (and unanimous) decision for the court. While the first part of the ruling describes how the decision was determined, the latter portion deals with the historical proofs that demonstrate that America is a Christian nation. After providing more than eighty pieces of evidence concerning America’s Christian origin, Justice Brewer concluded his decision:

If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters, note the following: the form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, “In the name of God, amen;” the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing everywhere under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

Supreme Court Declares America a Christian Nation

On February 29, 1892, The Supreme Court declared (in Holy Trinity v. United States) that the historical record of America overwhelmingly demonstrated that the United States '... is a Christian nation.' Contrary to this historical and legal record, judges throughout the end of the twentieth and...

christianheritagefellowship.com

Which "Judeo-Christian principles" are you referring to?

Well, take this one for instance - the division of Government, i.e. checks and balances. The delegates certainly had their qualms about the ability of men not to engage in ungodly conduct for their own benefit. John Eidsmoe (“Christianity and the Constitution”) cites Romans 3:23 as undoubtedly being a passage known to the Fathers – “For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” Madison, in Federalist # 51, stated: “But what is government itself but the greatest of all reflections on human nature. If men were angels, no government would be necessary…You must first enable the government to control the governed, and in the next place, oblige it control itself.” Here, Madison, who once studied for the priesthood, links angels vs. human nature to highlight one of the difficulties of human government.

 

[Logicman]

Don't project your failings onto me.

That is your assumption. I've heard the same BS from christian history revisionists before too. The Constitution does not mention or reference god. It does not establish a religious system or influence of government (it does the exact opposite) and the Constitution itself is based on the Magna Carta and the Principles of Enlightenment. The DoI does not establish our rights or system of laws and government either. It was written in a way to appeal to the King of England, as head of the Church. The DoI itself doesn't even say "God." It mentions "Creator," which is more vague than a explicit reference to "God." John Adams makes this abundantly clear in his work, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States of America', 1787 [emphasis mine]:

The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature: and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had any interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the inspiration of heaven, any more than those at work upon ships or houses, or labouring in merchandize or agriculture: it will for ever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

Btw, the "Year of the Lord" was the system of dating used in those times, much like we use mo/dd/yr now. If that's the best you can offer, then you have nothing. But I already knew that!

Those are your failings.

Idaho is NOT a Christian state, FFRF reminds its Lt. Gov.

Don't you skeptics EVER do your homework? Christians in Idaho 67% Atheists and Agnostics 5% https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/idaho/ Also, the Constitution was written to secure the God-given rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, so it...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Deuce]

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States concluded in 1892 that America was a Christian nation, i.e.

"Justice David Brewer wrote the majority (and unanimous) decision for the court. While the first part of the ruling describes how the decision was determined, the latter portion deals with the historical proofs that demonstrate that America is a Christian nation. After providing more than eighty pieces of evidence concerning America’s Christian origin, Justice Brewer concluded his decision:

If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters, note the following: the form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, “In the name of God, amen;” the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing everywhere under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."

Supreme Court Declares America a Christian Nation

On February 29, 1892, The Supreme Court declared (in Holy Trinity v. United States) that the historical record of America overwhelmingly demonstrated that the United States '... is a Christian nation.' Contrary to this historical and legal record, judges throughout the end of the twentieth and...

christianheritagefellowship.com

None of this actually means anything concrete. You wanna be Christian, you can be Christian. Lots of people are Christian. What does "Christian nation" actually mean in a real-world sense? Does it mean your beliefs get to become the law? Does it mean I'm required to be Christian? Does it mean breaking biblical laws should be punished by our government? Tell me why you're so hell-bent on declaring we are a "Christian nation."

Well, take this one for instance - the division of Government, i.e. checks and balances. The delegates certainly had their qualms about the ability of men not to engage in ungodly conduct for their own benefit. John Eidsmoe (“Christianity and the Constitution”) cites Romans 3:23 as undoubtedly being a passage known to the Fathers – “For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” Madison, in Federalist # 51, stated: “But what is government itself but the greatest of all reflections on human nature. If men were angels, no government would be necessary…You must first enable the government to control the governed, and in the next place, oblige it control itself.” Here, Madison, who once studied for the priesthood, links angels vs. human nature to highlight one of the difficulties of human government.

You're spewing lots of words hoping nobody notices you aren't saying anything.

Identify an actual Judeo-Christian principle that is specific to Christianity/Judaism and also specific to the United States. (after all, "don't commit murder," for example, is a universal principle that exists in every society in human history, so Christians trying to claim ownership over it is laughable)

 

[Chase Morgan]

Ah, yet another DELUSIONAL republican LOON

Hate to rain on your parade, mcgeachin, but your stupid little alleged god almost certainly doesn't exist.

You've (VERY) likely been MASSIVELY snookered your entire life.

We continue to laugh at pathetic jesus freaks like you ... HARD...

 

[Slartibartfast]

If the founding fathers meant for the first amendment to make an allowance for Christianity, they did a piss poor job in writing that amendment as it clearly states that the government endorses no religion over any other.

 

[Gordy327]

Those are your failings.

Nope, those are the facts.

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States concluded in 1892 that America was a Christian nation, i.e.

Wrong! Justice Brewer was citing a dicta, which is nothing more than personal opinion, but carries no legal weight or merit. It's no different than you or anyone else saying this is a "christian nation." The separation of church and state alone negates the idea that this is a "christian nation," as christianity has never been declared the national religion or basis for this country. Looks like another epic fail for you!

 

[Logicman]

Nope, those are the facts.

Wrong! Justice Brewer was citing a dicta, which is nothing more than personal opinion, but carries no legal weight or merit. It's no different than you or anyone else saying this is a "christian nation." The separation of church and state alone negates the idea that this is a "christian nation," as christianity has never been declared the national religion or basis for this country. Looks like another epic fail for you!

Believe all the drivel you want, Gordy. The fact is that atheism was an aberrant belief in American history. Not ONE of the founding fathers was an atheist.

And here's something else for you, science guy:

 

[Logicman]

Tell me why you're so hell-bent on declaring we are a "Christian nation."

We aren't anymore. Thanks to liberals and their horde of spiritually-challenged nitwits America has been turned into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah sewer.

You're spewing lots of words hoping nobody notices you aren't saying anything.

Back at you.

Identify an actual Judeo-Christian principle that is specific to Christianity/Judaism and also specific to the United States. (after all, "don't commit murder," for example, is a universal principle that exists in every society in human history, so Christians trying to claim ownership over it is laughable)

Baloney. The first murder was Cain and Able, which God (the God of Judaism and Christianity) did not approve of and punished (Genesis 4). So nice try.

 

[Bear5131]

Idaho is NOT a Christian state, FFRF reminds its Lt. Gov. - Freedom From Religion Foundation

The Freedom From Religion Foundation is demanding that Idaho Lt. Gov. Janice McGeachin retract and apologize for her recent “menacing” and religion-in...

ffrf.org

The Freedom From Religion Foundation is demanding that Idaho Lt. Gov. Janice McGeachin retract and apologize for her recent “menacing” and religion-infused incendiary remarks.

McGeachin said in an interview distributed widely on April 9, “God calls us to pick up the sword and fight, and Christ will reign in the state of Idaho.” In a letter to the lieutenant governor, FFRF Co-Presidents Annie Laurie Gaylor and Dan Barker condemn her “frightening, threatening, ignorant, unpatriotic and un-American remarks.”

“Holding the second-highest executive office in your state, you are using your position of civil authority to threaten that ‘Christ will reign in the state of Idaho,’” the co-presidents write. “In an era of Christian nationalist and partisan strife, particularly following the insurrection of Jan. 6, 2021, it is impossible to read your words as other than a threat when you say ‘God calls us to pick up the sword and fight.’”

FFRF reminds McGeachin that she took an oath of office to preserve and defend the U.S. Constitution, which is a godless and entirely secular document, the first in the world, in fact, to separate religion from government. Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as that there shall be no religious test for public office. The framers of our Constitution were revolutionary, FFRF asserts, in being first in history to invest sovereignty not in a divinity, but in “We the People.”

In their letter, Gaylor and Barker document that nonreligious Idahoans make up 27 percent of the state's population.

snip

Oh God it's OF religion not From religion what a stupid thing to say

 

[Bear5131]

Unfortunately, there are those who actually think this is a "christian country" or the separation of church and state does not apply to christians. Such people should never hold public office, imo.

99.9% know this is a Christian country and welcome all the world's religions even the atheist religion

 

[Slartibartfast]

99.9% know this is a Christian country and welcome all the world's religions even the atheist religion

99.9% of posters on this forum named Bear5131?

You didn’t contextualize your statistic.

 

[CaughtInThe]

The real question is WHY evangelical Christians are trying to change what the founders created and make us a theocracy.

 

[Bear5131]

99.9% of posters on this forum named Bear5131?

You didn’t contextualize your statistic.

I didn't know this was the democrat underground I missed all the cute kitten threads