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Ian McCormack - an Atheist - Dead on Morgue Slab - Goes to Hell . . .

Here's what I get out of this.

Theist - "Some evidence of the afterlife."

Atheist - "No evidence ever counts, a priori, because there is no God, how do I know this? Because there is no evidence, you have evidence? No it MUST be wrong a priori."

No my own opinion is pretty sceptical, as was said when going through truama the brain can do very wierd things, and bizzare memories can be created. I don't think anyone has any reasom to disbelieve him, or think he doesn't have the memories he claims to have (unless of course your just an anti-theist that out of hand dismiss ANY piece of evidence for the supernatural without considering it), but memories, especially about extremely traumatic events when your brain isn't working, arn't really reliable, the same with people who say they remember nothing happening .... I mean people who take psychoactive drugs sometimes claim to meet the divine, maybe they do, maybe they don't, some people have terrible traumatic events that they don't remember consciously at all.

I don't think we can dismiss it out of hand, but you also can't say "aha, see, there IS an afterlife."
 
rathi said:
For the sake of arguments, lets assume that Mr. McCormak's story is actually true. It would demonstrate the incredible unfairness of gods judgement. Why does McCormak get to come back and repent for the error of his ways when most everyone else doesn't get a second chance? Why does God show him actual evidence of hell while the rest of atheists are denied it?
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What is man's idea of "fairness?" How do we measure that? By human standard?
Unless He wants us to know, how do we fathom the thoughts or plans of God?




Isaiah 55

8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.

9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

10 “For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,

11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
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If God wanted McCormack to come back from the dead, that's His will. He wants it to happen. For what purpose, who knows?
Perhaps the reason for coming back is not about McCormack at all - that perhaps McCormack is just another puzzle piece towards the completion of a purpose by God.

We may not agree with Him....we may not even believe in Him.... but that's just the way it is.
Whether one believes in Him or not, doesn't matter - if He wills it, it will happen.
You could just as easily lose everything tomorrow, the same way that you could just as easily gain.

We have to HUMBLY accept that we are created for His pleasure.
HIS PLEASURE. We exist because He wants us to exist. We exist because He allows it.

However, He'd shown that He loves us.....through Jesus Christ. Jesus had given us the explanation what is expected from us that we may live forever with God.

To love God with all our heart and with all our mind. To Glorify Him. To Obey Him.

That, is the purpose and the meaning of life.
 
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How many atheists had become believers? We only know mostly about the prominent ones.
A lot of former atheists or non-Christians end up converting, becoming apologists for Christianity....and some become martyrs.

Surely they didn't just suddenly decide to change their minds without anything to convince them, or to make them.
They all seem to have something in common: They've experienced God.
 
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tosca1 said:
WhWe have to HUMBLY accept that we are created for His pleasure.
HIS PLEASURE. We exist because He wants us to exist. We exist because He allows it.

However, He'd shown that He loves us.....through Jesus Christ. Jesus had given us the explanation what is expected from us that we may live forever with God.

To love God with all our heart and with all our mind. To Glorify Him. To Obey Him.

That, is the purpose and the meaning of life.
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I don't think he created us for his pleasure ... Anymore than parents have children for their pleasure ... it's out of love, and a desire to share, we arn't God's "pets."
 
tosca1 said:
How many atheists had become believers? We only know mostly about the prominent ones.
A lot of former atheists or non-Christians end up converting, becoming apologists for Christianity....and some become martyrs.

Surely they didn't just suddenly decide to change their minds....
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And I think just as many of them become Buddhists or pagans or Hare Khrishnas or Taoists etc.

Maybe Christians are being martyred is some crappy third world country (and that is truly horrible and wrong if they are),but in the United States ,apparently Christians are being martyered if you tell them to mind their own freaking business and stop sticking their noses into everyone else's.

seems to me that "persecution of christians" is the act of telling them that can't get their way all the time.

Now,not all christians act that way,and not even most.But there are enough of them to really be annoying.
And quite a number of them seem to be on thsi very forum.

Christians weren't the only one martyred for their believes.Seems to me plenty of pagans throughout history have paid a very steep price refusing to become christians themselves at the hands of SOME christians.
But let's be honest,they really don't matter to you,now do they?
 
MaggieD said:
Well, I could be wrong. But what I consider dead is brain dead. No one's ever been brought back from that. I talked about a young man I knew who benefited greatly from affirmative action in another thread. He told me he was declared dead and woke up in the morgue when he was in the military. He also experienced 'an afterlife.' Very moved by it, he was. But he obviously wasn't dead. As in dead dead. *shrug*
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Dead enough to land up in the morgue, but that is why they are called NDEs. (Near Death Experiences)..
 
rathi said:
For the sake of arguments, lets assume that Mr. McCormak's story is actually true. It would demonstrate the incredible unfairness of gods judgement. Why does McCormak get to come back and repent for the error of his ways when most everyone else doesn't get a second chance? Why does God show him actual evidence of hell while the rest of atheists are denied it?
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Why do you think that God had anything to do with it?
 
Surtr said:
My best friend was dead for a little bit due to an aneurysm, he didn't see anything. I believe that these "experiences" are just hallucinations caused by trauma. The brain can cause some pretty weird things to happen when it's all screwed up by something like hypovolemic shock and suffocation due to the stopping of the heart.
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That is what medical science tries to tell you, but the similar experiences by so, so many cannot be explained away so easily....
 
What kind of a bastard god sends people to burn forever, for a finite sin?
 
The premise to any discussion on spirituality of any kind should be that we are spiritual Beings temporarily in a physical body and that this is not our true Home.... So yes that implies that there is an afterlife, also a before life--a whole other world of Spirit.... I like to say that God created us by spitting us out of himself, so we are part of God/Creator/Source/universal intelligence/energy-love-light and he is part of us....God is the universe and everything in it--constantly expanding/creating.....so to find and connect with this creator God of energy, love and light, you simply have to look within.
 
Juanita said:
That is what medical science tries to tell you, but the similar experiences by so, so many cannot be explained away so easily....
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Of course it can. If there were something to it, everyone who was resuscitated from death on the operating table would have one of these experiences. If the brain isn't getting blood, it isn't getting air, either. That means bad things are happening on the inside of your body, and that these people are experiencing extreme physical trauma.
 
tosca1 said:
How many atheists had become believers? We only know mostly about the prominent ones.
A lot of former atheists or non-Christians end up converting, becoming apologists for Christianity....and some become martyrs.

Surely they didn't just suddenly decide to change their minds without anything to convince them, or to make them.
They all seem to have something in common: They've experienced God.
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How many Christians ended up becoming atheists? I'd imagine there are a fair number of those too.
 
Surtr said:
Of course it can. If there were something to it, everyone who was resuscitated from death on the operating table would have one of these experiences. If the brain isn't getting blood, it isn't getting air, either. That means bad things are happening on the inside of your body, and that these people are experiencing extreme physical trauma.
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You really, really don't know what you are talking about.... What about OBEs (out of body experiences) ?
 
roughdraft274 said:
Well, true they probably all didn't make up there stories. They are just genuinely confused.
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I don't think so......Out of body experiences can sometimes be confusing, but NDEs are usually vivid, clear and memorable.....
 
Moderator's Warning:
Religious discussion forum, so be respectful of others' beliefs and all that stuff. Y'all know the drill.
 
Surtr said:
Then feel free to prove me wrong.
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I think that you know that these types of spiritual experiences cannot be proven.....You have to either experience them yourself or be willing to believe the experiences of others....good try tho...although science is getting closer all the time....
 
True. Many such experiences can be induced in the laboratory.
Floating out of ones body, lacking ears, eyes, skin etc. how does the individual percieve anything without physical sense organs to interact with the environment? They are still in the "dead" body.
 
Juanita said:
I think that you know that these types of spiritual experiences cannot be proven.....You have to either experience them yourself or be willing to believe the experiences of others....good try tho...although science is getting closer all the time....
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Have you ever been in shock, experienced head trauma, or even dehydration and starvation? I have. I've even seen that light at the end of the tunnel that people talk about. It was just an anomoly called shock, caused by my body shutting down. That warm peaceful feeling I felt in that ditch was my brain telling my body that everything is alright so I could hopefully rest and gather enough strength to get up and move to safety. It's a survival mechanism, and it's more powerful than you could ever imagine. I'm still alive because this masterpiece of biological engineering did what it was built to do. If there is a God, I'd say (s)he's one hell of an engineer.
 
Manc Skipper said:
True. Many such experiences can be induced in the laboratory.
Floating out of ones body, lacking ears, eyes, skin etc. how does the individual percieve anything without physical sense organs to interact with the environment? They are still in the "dead" body.
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Let me repeat--we are Spiritual Beings temporarily in a physical body....When the physical body dies, the soul/spirit/conscienceness leaves the body..you see with your spiritual eyes... You are met and assisted with your transition by loved ones in spirit and a spirit guide..
 
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