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I was at the beach today

Sure. I agree. They tend to work more taking care of their own home and family. I guess, they'll just have to find a way to monetize that. Until that happens, women will make less than men, due to working at the job less hours.
My thought is there really isn't a need to monetize creating and caring for the next generation in the home. Might be a need for those like the OP to not make sweeping 'observations' on 50 some people one day on a beach.... ✌️
 
My thought is there really isn't a need to monetize creating and caring for the next generation in the home.

They may actually be monetizing it, through a delayed gratification. Sacrificing themselves for the benefit of their spawn and their future.

Yes, I know "delayed gratification" is supposedly a symptom of whiteness.
 
They may actually be monetizing it, through a delayed gratification. Sacrificing themselves for the benefit of their spawn and their future. Yes, I know "delayed gratification" is supposedly a symptom of whiteness.
Might be, many prefer to say generational wealth, building a launch pad for their children to have it better off. I believe delayed gratification might have a religiuos basis- we used to say "Your reward will come in heaven coz ya ain't gettin' shit here!"... ✌️
 
Every job ive had men and women were paid the same for the same work.

Unless you were in payroll or had a union contract dictating pay, you aren’t actually in a position to know that.

The most likely scenario here is that you’re just making things up, obviously.

Even if we took this incredibly dubious claim at face value, your personal anecdotes are utterly meaningless.
 
Every job ive had men and women were paid the same for the same work.

with a catch

In the 70's and 80's women did not do all the work men did although they got paid the same.. All the physical work was done by the men. All the "tough areas" were manned by men. Women got the jobs in the "better areas."
 
The fact that woman who stay home to care for their kids (which is a societal good) would be disadvantaged relative to fathers who don't is an issue in and of itself. Not easy to solve, in my opinion, but it is a form of 'soft' sexism.

How is it an issue? It is a choice. Very easy to solve. Don't have a family.

No sexism in play at all. Just raw capitalism at work. This sexism thing is a cruth because you want it all and that is not how the world works. Men and women are equal, not the same.


And that's ignoring the differences in pressure which cause mothers to feel they are 'bad' if they don't stay home with their children, while most fathers don't feel that same pressure. I think some of that pressure is internal (and maybe relates to maternal instinct), but not all of it is.

The economy does not respond to how someone may feel. That is nonsense. You make a choice, period.

And yes, I have two daughters both very successful.
 
The fact that woman who stay home to care for their kids (which is a societal good) would be disadvantaged relative to fathers who don't is an issue in and of itself. Not easy to solve, in my opinion, but it is a form of 'soft' sexism.
It is not sexism. Fathers stay at home to watch the kids too... although not as much.
And that's ignoring the differences in pressure which cause mothers to feel they are 'bad' if they don't stay home with their children, while most fathers don't feel that same pressure. I think some of that pressure is internal (and maybe relates to maternal instinct), but not all of it is.
It 100% relates to biology. Women were always the stay in the village, watch and nurture the kids while the moms multi-task the shit out of the village and the men are off on on task... hunt for food. Fast forward to today and women still stay at home... the nurturers and the men go out and do their one task... provide for the family buy working (today's version of hunting the mammoth.).
 
Unless you were in payroll or had a union contract dictating pay, you aren’t actually in a position to know that.

The most likely scenario here is that you’re just making things up, obviously.

Even if we took this incredibly dubious claim at face value, your personal anecdotes are utterly meaningless.

In any government job, pay is known. So, any teacher, cop or .gov worker, men and women are paid the same. And as a .gov worker, I've had more female bosses than male bosses.
 
In any government job, pay is known. So, any teacher, cop or .gov worker, men and women are paid the same. And as a .gov worker, I've had more female bosses than male bosses.
Yes, that's a similar scenario to the union situation I mentioned.
 
I was at the town beach today. It's a small beach maybe 50 people there today. Moms with their kids and seniors were 95% of the folks.

2 observations

1) lack of working age men on the beach. Seems to typify that more men have careers than do women hence it's no surprise they tend to dominate the top positions in business.

2) The most attractive women at the beach had the nicest car at the beach. Need I say more? I doubt she works at all.

What is the point?

Well, I was in a thread the other day where folks were screaming about how women are discriminated against in business.

I think my simple observations goes a long way in explaining much of why this may be. It's not discrimination at all. There are far fewer career women who do not take time away from careers.
Whut? Simple observations usually generate the worst results.
 
How is it an issue? It is a choice. Very easy to solve. Don't have a family.

No sexism in play at all. Just raw capitalism at work. This sexism thing is a cruth because you want it all and that is not how the world works. Men and women are equal, not the same.




The economy does not respond to how someone may feel. That is nonsense. You make a choice, period.

And yes, I have two daughters both very successful.
Nobody says they are exactly the same. Your simple observations are not really robust enough to come to an accurate conclusion.
 
How is it an issue? It is a choice. Very easy to solve. Don't have a family.
Taken to the extreme, and humanity would go extinct. Not a reasonable solution.
No sexism in play at all. Just raw capitalism at work. This sexism thing is a cruth because you want it all and that is not how the world works. Men and women are equal, not the same.
I want it all? I don't know what that means. And, you are presuming 'raw capitalism' is the best we can do - and also neglecting who's perspectives were dominant in formulating raw capitalism.
The economy does not respond to how someone may feel. That is nonsense. You make a choice, period.
Society is more than the economy. Is producing a widget truly more valuable to society then raising children?

And yes, I have two daughters both very successful.
Fantastic. How can there possibly be a problem with all the delightful anecdotes flowing through this thread.

It is not sexism. Fathers stay at home to watch the kids too... although not as much.
Not as much being the key point. Also, like I said, it would be interesting to compare outcomes between stay-at-home parents of both genders.

It 100% relates to biology. Women were always the stay in the village, watch and nurture the kids while the moms multi-task the shit out of the village and the men are off on on task... hunt for food. Fast forward to today and women still stay at home... the nurturers and the men go out and do their one task... provide for the family buy working (today's version of hunting the mammoth.).
In a community of hunters and gatherers, maybe that makes sense. We are no longer such, and your ideas are beyond antiquated. If you feel that capitalism makes it impossible to reward mothers (and fathers!) for caring for their children, I disagree, but think it is a somewhat tricky thing to solve, so it is a more mild disagreement. Your notion of what a modern family structure should be is ridiculous though.

Again, the argument that men work more hours only explains part of the pay gap, and moreover, the reasons for this difference need to be identified. The reasons *for* that gap, may or may not be due to sexism (or only partially so), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 
In a community of hunters and gatherers, maybe that makes sense. We are no longer such, and your ideas are beyond antiquated. If you feel that capitalism makes it impossible to reward mothers (and fathers!) for caring for their children, I disagree, but think it is a somewhat tricky thing to solve, so it is a more mild disagreement. Your notion of what a modern family structure should be is ridiculous though.
That is not my notion of what the modern family should be... that is what the modern family is. I don't know where you live but everywhere I have lived men go to work when they are done with school and work until they die. Women have that choice but more often than not they start work later or take time off to have kids and after the kids are a little older they come back to work in a reduced or part time capacity.
Again, the argument that men work more hours only explains part of the pay gap, and moreover, the reasons for this difference need to be identified. The reasons *for* that gap, may or may not be due to sexism (or only partially so), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The reasons have already been identified. Women that go into a profession like a man get paid the same amount of money for the same amount or work. This is a fact. A first year female teacher, cop or whatever makes the same as a first year male teacher, cop or whatever. IF a woman takes time off to have a kid that can adversely affect her due to a number or reasons, that are her choice. Often women go into fields that pay lower wages, get part time or even unpaid work. The work is not paid less because they are fields that attract women and women are free to go into different fields. This is just some of it and there is a lot more and much of it is nuanced.
 
Taken to the extreme, and humanity would go extinct. Not a reasonable solution.

I want it all? I don't know what that means. And, you are presuming 'raw capitalism' is the best we can do - and also neglecting who's perspectives were dominant in formulating raw capitalism.

Society is more than the economy. Is producing a widget truly more valuable to society then raising children?


Fantastic. How can there possibly be a problem with all the delightful anecdotes flowing through this thread.


Not as much being the key point. Also, like I said, it would be interesting to compare outcomes between stay-at-home parents of both genders.


In a community of hunters and gatherers, maybe that makes sense. We are no longer such, and your ideas are beyond antiquated. If you feel that capitalism makes it impossible to reward mothers (and fathers!) for caring for their children, I disagree, but think it is a somewhat tricky thing to solve, so it is a more mild disagreement. Your notion of what a modern family structure should be is ridiculous though.

Again, the argument that men work more hours only explains part of the pay gap, and moreover, the reasons for this difference need to be identified. The reasons *for* that gap, may or may not be due to sexism (or only partially so), but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Yeah.. people love throwing out anecdotes on here for some reason.
 
Whut? Simple observations usually generate the worst results.

I think results are not questioned, I was just using this anecdotal evidence to support the existing conclusions (by objective analisis) to address the subject.

I do like that you challenged me logically. That is a sorely absent here for the most part. ;)
 
Taken to the extreme, and humanity would go extinct. Not a reasonable solution.

Silly reply.What on earth makes you think women what a career more than kids. Obviously they don;t. I am simply pointing out the trade off and that if a career is more important to a women the opportunity is the same as for a man. FACT.

I want it all? I don't know what that means. And, you are presuming 'raw capitalism' is the best we can do - and also neglecting who's perspectives were dominant in formulating raw capitalism.

Seriously? What a bad post. I assume nothing, there is no LOGICAL way to interpret my post as you did in this regard. You are posting from assumed stereotypes rather than understanding what I have posted.

Society is more than the economy. Is producing a widget truly more valuable to society then raising children?
Of course not. But this has nothing to do with anything I posted. (really poor post from top to bottom.)
)
 
Read my post and think in macro.

BTW, I made no claims I simply relayed my observations.

A further comment:

As we all know, if you are an attractive women, the world is your oyster.

1. "Think in macro" based on a sample of 50 people? WTF?

2. Sounds a little incel.
 
Factor in most women also take care of the household and family they manage amazing things in those 3.6 hours... ✌️
You can also look at it as women get the same amount of work done in less hours. After all there are goals to be met and they have to be meeting them to stay employed
 
I was at the town beach today. It's a small beach maybe 50 people there today. Moms with their kids and seniors were 95% of the folks.

2 observations

1) lack of working age men on the beach. Seems to typify that more men have careers than do women hence it's no surprise they tend to dominate the top positions in business.

2) The most attractive women at the beach had the nicest car at the beach. Need I say more? I doubt she works at all.

What is the point?

Well, I was in a thread the other day where folks were screaming about how women are discriminated against in business.

I think my simple observations goes a long way in explaining much of why this may be. It's not discrimination at all. There are far fewer career women who do not take time away from careers.
And you base that thesis on an afternoon at the beach?
 
So, anything even remotely anti-female is met with very personal attacks?

Attacks against the post, yes.

Why would it be any other way?
 
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