I thought our taxes were not going up?!?!?!?

[teamosil]

HOw does capital gains tax rates cost anyone money unless you assume that all wealth belongs to the government.

That's just semantics. I make no assumption about what belongs to who or whatever. I'm a pragmatist. I typically just look at the tangible impacts something has in the world.

It's not about who the wealth belongs to. Everybody has to pay taxes. Why tax people more heavily for working than you tax people for investing? We have created this artificial exemption for investors so they don't have to pay taxes as high as other people do. There isn't a real justification for it. Those are just the people with the most power, so they get what they want.

who is hurt by having lower rates on capital gains.

All of us. Those tax breaks cost us something like a trillion dollars a year to offer. We have to borrow the money to cover that. Whether you see it on your bank statement or not, you had to take out $30,000 in loans during the Bush administration to cover the cost of all those tax breaks. They just hid it from you by doing it as national debt instead of a personal loan, but it's pretty much the same thing in the end.

and there is sound arguments that high capital gains taxes forces capital out of the usa.

Actually, no, but close. Capital would not be forced out. You are taxed based on where you live, not where your money is invested. So, the same investors would still invest here. However, you could argue that the investors would move away. I guess that is probably sort of true to an extent, but most countries already charge higher capital gains taxes than we do and nothing like a mass exodus happened in those countries.

And, really, it wouldn't make such a big impact on the people who make their income by investing really. Not enough that somebody would want to move. The difference between $10 million and $8 million isn't really something that would effect your quality of life, so I doubt people would move just over that.

 

[teamosil]

why are people making only minimum wages starting families?

Well, sometimes when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much they give each other a... special kind of hug... and then 9 months later they have a family

Are you seriously arguing that low skilled workers should not have children? A voluntary eugenics program based on income? Seriously?

 

[Moon]

Well, sometimes when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much they give each other a... special kind of hug... and then 9 months later they have a family

Are you seriously arguing that low skilled workers should not have children? A voluntary eugenics program based on income? Seriously?

How many families are there where one or both parents are only making minimum wage?

 

[teamosil]

How many families are there where one or both parents are only making minimum wage?

I don't know exactly, but we can make a pretty good guess. Two parents making minimum wage totals up to about $25,000 a year between them. About 25% of households have an income of less than $25,000 a year. Now, that doesn't mean 25% of household make only minimum wage neccesarily. You could have only one person working and making say $12/hour and still be below $25k, or you could have a household with only one person, so that wouldn't count as a family. But, ballpark, I'm thinking around 1 in 5 families are trying to get by on minimum wage or less. Somewhere out there I'm sure there is the real stat, but I can't find it atm.

 

[Gabriel]

Has some relevant comparative information between families in 1970 vs 2001. Expenses etc. Very important stuff..

 

[jujuman13]

Read

Six Months to Go Until<br> The Largest Tax Hikes in History
I have no idea as to veracity of link provided.


now tell me, is this link wrong? I remember certain folks saying that this administration was not raising taxes.


Is this another campaign promise broken?


How in this near depression can you afford this?

I do know you NEVER believe what any squalid Politician tells you.
Invariably they are two faced.
Campaign promises are made just so that they can be broken.

 

[Thorgasm]

I do know you NEVER believe what any squalid Politician tells you.
Invariably they are two faced.
Campaign promises are made just so that they can be broken.

Would you have voted for Walter Mondale?

 

[obvious Child]

tax cuts never need to be funded

So tax cuts are tax neutral?

Good luck proving that.

government spending is what costs us money

But you're missing one side of the equation. Maybe you think that government spending doesn't increase wealth. I guess you think NASA hasn't done anything for the economy. Or the entire Defense Industry just prays God will strike down our enemies. Or that the NIH has never produces a life savings drug.

Sorry. Using my brain. I know it's dangerous. eace

 

[Donc]

a moronic suggestion because the economy would tank

tax hikers assume that the amount of money to be taxed will remain the same after tax hikes

Nah,hell, were not even in the top five in tax rates.:2wave:

 

[TurtleDude]

So tax cuts are tax neutral?

Good luck proving that.



But you're missing one side of the equation. Maybe you think that government spending doesn't increase wealth. I guess you think NASA hasn't done anything for the economy. Or the entire Defense Industry just prays God will strike down our enemies. Or that the NIH has never produces a life savings drug.

Sorry. Using my brain. I know it's dangerous. eace

tax cuts being "tax neutral" is not the issue

the issue is statists claiming that tax cuts have to be paid for

they don't. Government spending has to be paid for and much of the government spending is on items that are neither properly constitutional or good for society

 

[TurtleDude]

Nah,hell, were not even in the top five in tax rates.:2wave:

what a stupid argument

why do you libs want America to be a welfare socialist state like sweden

why don't you move there

just because other countries rape their citizens (remind me how many top Swedish athletes or rock singers live in Sweden rather than Monte Carlo) doesn't justify the wealth grabbers being allowed to do it here.

 

[Gabriel]

what a stupid argument

why do you libs want America to be a welfare socialist state like sweden

why don't you move there

just because other countries rape their citizens (remind me how many top Swedish athletes or rock singers live in Sweden rather than Monte Carlo) doesn't justify the wealth grabbers being allowed to do it here.

The Swedish are quite happy with their system I think. Sweeden ranks pretty high.

Top 10 happiest countries in the world | Financial Jesus

 

[Gabriel]

The Swedish are quite happy with their system I think. Sweeden ranks pretty high.

Top 10 happiest countries in the world | Financial Jesus

EDIT:Some reason it wouldn't let me edit my last post.

7. Sweden – 7,7 points
This “welfare state” model is an excellent example of effective national taxes. Among other things the state provides universal tax-funded childcare, parental leave, health care, education (including university), retirement pensions and sick leave. Including value added tax (VAT – kind of like sales tax), it is possible to pay up to 80% of your income as taxes. Contrary to popular belief, Swedes are quite OK with their high taxes. After all it gives them tons of free and high quality services – what’s not to be happy about!

The good old USA ranks 17th.. even with the lower taxation... imagine that.

 

[LimeLight]

EDIT:Some reason it wouldn't let me edit my last post.


The good old USA ranks 17th.. even with the lower taxation... imagine that.

Sweden is also a much smaller , more contained country. Social systems tend to thrive in those conditions. I'm all for social programs but hard implementation isn't an option in our current state.

 

[Thorgasm]

Sweden doesn't have a war or two every decade. They don't police the world.

 

[LimeLight]

Sweden doesn't have a war or two every decade. They don't police the world.

Maybe they should. We sure could use a break.

 

[Thorgasm]

Maybe they should. We sure could use a break.

Someone needs to tell us that the Cold War is over.

 

[Slartibartfast]

It always amazes me when people cannot or will not tell the difference between a tax cut that is expiring and a tax raise. Honestly, this tax cut never should have happened in the first place.

Economists' statement opposing the Bush tax cuts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TurtleDude]

The Swedish are quite happy with their system I think. Sweeden ranks pretty high.

Top 10 happiest countries in the world | Financial Jesus

yeah their suicide rate is really low-right

same with their rate of alcoholism

those polls are not exactly what I would call reliable.

But again, why do the socialists always say America should be more like has been euro-socialist states

and why do the most productive citizens of sweden live in places like Monte carlo.

 

[TurtleDude]

It always amazes me when people cannot or will not tell the difference between a tax cut that is expiring and a tax raise. Honestly, this tax cut never should have happened in the first place.

Economists' statement opposing the Bush tax cuts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

spoken like someone who doesn't pay enough taxes already

 

[Slartibartfast]

spoken like someone who doesn't pay enough taxes already

More like someone who gives a damn about someone other than themselves and their own prosperity.

 

[TurtleDude]

More like someone who gives a damn about someone other than themselves and their own prosperity.

the left always wants to use the wealth of others to promote the greater good for their own benefit.

the sad point is that you think jacking up taxes is good and that means the liberty and property rights of others would never be safe if you were in power.

IT is your type of thinking that is destroying this nation

 

[Slartibartfast]

the left always wants to use the wealth of others to promote the greater good for their own benefit.

I find it interesting that you always assign selfish motivation when I would not be affected one way or another by this or greater spending for the poor.

the sad point is that you think jacking up taxes is good and that means the liberty and property rights of others would never be safe if you were in power.

Its not jacking up taxes, its the expiration of something that should never have been. Jacking up taxes means action (voting for a bill) while letting something expire means no action. I see that as different. :shrug:

However to your larger point, I disagree that removing unnecessary income from those who don't need it reduces any sort of real freedom.

IT is your type of thinking that is destroying this nation

I disagree. Regulation is necessary for an economy to function better, without it, I believe we would return to conditions similar to the 1930s.

 

[Deuce]

the left always wants to use the wealth of others to promote the greater good for their own benefit.

the sad point is that you think jacking up taxes is good and that means the liberty and property rights of others would never be safe if you were in power.

IT is your type of thinking that is destroying this nation

The point you're still missing is that this is the Bush admin's tax cuts expiring. If the GOP had wanted them permanent, they should have made them permanent. I suggest you take it up with them, they're the ones "raising" your taxes.

 

[Ockham]

The Swedish are quite happy with their system I think. Sweeden ranks pretty high.

Top 10 happiest countries in the world | Financial Jesus

So if they're happy with it, we should too right? Not sure if you realize this or not, but European nations already tried what we're embarking on... high taxes, high welfare, pseudo-socialism. The result? They've taxed the **** out of everything, spent more and more and wound up in debt to the point they're now guiding the U.S. to NOT continue to borrow and spend but to cut spending. Sorry, last time I looked around we're not Sweden.