I think our country is becoming effectively ungovernable from the dark money right-wing propaganda

[Craig234]

Around the world, there are places you can't talk rationally to many people about some things. North Korea, China, Russia are examples where the people are heavily propagandized and have absorbed the propaganda.

Democracies are supposed to be the antidote. This isn't a new problem - even with the primitive technologies, it existed before our country was founded, leading the founders to see the rights to freedom on information as critical.

Unfortunately, the developments of mass media, plutocracy, and dark money have combined to replace rational well-informed free views for much of America with people in bubbles of propaganda.

Polls show only 36% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of Russia; only 11% of Republicans, those especially in that bubble.

It seems to me, that is not people who are being rational. It seems it is people who are expressing dislike of Biden, not rational criticism of his handling of Russia. The poll shows they don't want the US to get heavily involved in the conflict, sending troops; that's what Biden's done. It's not clear what they would like Biden to do differently, other than wave a wand to fix it.

The cause of the dissatisfaction seems to be the heavy levels of propagandization - Biden bad, Biden bad, Biden bad, more than anything. People who will dislike Biden, who will vote against him, not for rational reasons, but in a created bubble of propaganda. And that is dangerous, when there's nothing a president could do but be approved by the propagandists. It puts the dark money, not the people, in charge.

 

[Exquisitor]

I think the biggest problem is that people buy what they see on TV.

Thirty seconds with a character and he's got your vote, now everyone else is stupid, but you don't even know what Party he is? Are we living in Washington's America? I want to know your Party when you show me your but hole.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Biden said that he is using the threat of (some incremental) economic sanctions as a deterrent, yet simultaneously stated that such (threatened) sanctions have (obviously) not deterred anything. The (moronic?) idea that Europe can continue to rely on importing Russian oil and natural gas while that is funding Putin’s military campaign is unbelievable.

 

[Jkca1]

There have always been levels of propaganda. But times are changing quickly. Who under 70 watches TV? Yes, you may corner the senior market with FOX news but my kids, both under 21 amd now able to vote, spend ZERO time watching television. That's the new norm for generations to come. Take a look at CNN, the Winter Olympics, Oscars, Tony Awards and even WWE. Viewership is at all time lows. To be clear there are still some events like the Superbowl that draw viewers. How many political ads can you remember from watching it? If you want to reach the under 60 voters you better be on TikTok and most of the viewership there is not conservative. Same with YouTube. Some of the biggest names there are from the LGBTQ community or openly support it.

 

[tshade]

Around the world, there are places you can't talk rationally to many people about some things. North Korea, China, Russia are examples where the people are heavily propagandized and have absorbed the propaganda.

Democracies are supposed to be the antidote. This isn't a new problem - even with the primitive technologies, it existed before our country was founded, leading the founders to see the rights to freedom on information as critical.

Unfortunately, the developments of mass media, plutocracy, and dark money have combined to replace rational well-informed free views for much of America with people in bubbles of propaganda.

Polls show only 36% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of Russia; only 11% of Republicans, those especially in that bubble.

It seems to me, that is not people who are being rational. It seems it is people who are expressing dislike of Biden, not rational criticism of his handling of Russia. The poll shows they don't want the US to get heavily involved in the conflict, sending troops; that's what Biden's done. It's not clear what they would like Biden to do differently, other than wave a wand to fix it.

The cause of the dissatisfaction seems to be the heavy levels of propagandization - Biden bad, Biden bad, Biden bad, more than anything. People who will dislike Biden, who will vote against him, not for rational reasons, but in a created bubble of propaganda. And that is dangerous, when there's nothing a president could do but be approved by the propagandists. It puts the dark money, not the people, in charge.

So the problem may not be the "dark Money", but the existence of so many people who are prone to be influenced by propaganda. Perhaps this is an education problem?? How do we make people rational thinkers to the point that unfit people like DJT never could have won in 2016 ??

 

[Craig234]

So the problem may not be the "dark Money", but the existence of so many people who are prone to be influenced by propaganda. Perhaps this is an education problem?? How do we make people rational thinkers to the point that unfit people like DJT never could have won in 2016 ??

It can have dark money as a major factor, that takes advantage of things like a lack of education. We could do a lot better if education were improved, but how likely is that?

 

[tshade]

It can have dark money as a major factor, that takes advantage of things like a lack of education. We could do a lot better if education were improved, but how likely is that?

The greatest problems probably take very long term solutions. We are not a people who are patient enough for "long term" anything....

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

What percentage of Democrats said they approved?

 

[watsup]

Around the world, there are places you can't talk rationally to many people about some things. North Korea, China, Russia are examples where the people are heavily propagandized and have absorbed the propaganda.

Democracies are supposed to be the antidote. This isn't a new problem - even with the primitive technologies, it existed before our country was founded, leading the founders to see the rights to freedom on information as critical.

Unfortunately, the developments of mass media, plutocracy, and dark money have combined to replace rational well-informed free views for much of America with people in bubbles of propaganda.

Polls show only 36% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of Russia; only 11% of Republicans, those especially in that bubble.

It seems to me, that is not people who are being rational. It seems it is people who are expressing dislike of Biden, not rational criticism of his handling of Russia. The poll shows they don't want the US to get heavily involved in the conflict, sending troops; that's what Biden's done. It's not clear what they would like Biden to do differently, other than wave a wand to fix it.

The cause of the dissatisfaction seems to be the heavy levels of propagandization - Biden bad, Biden bad, Biden bad, more than anything. People who will dislike Biden, who will vote against him, not for rational reasons, but in a created bubble of propaganda. And that is dangerous, when there's nothing a president could do but be approved by the propagandists. It puts the dark money, not the people, in charge.

They are more interested in pure power than in governance for the people.

 

[Craig234]

What percentage of Democrats said they approved?

64%

 

[What if...?]

So the problem may not be the "dark Money", but the existence of so many people who are prone to be influenced by propaganda. Perhaps this is an education problem?? How do we make people rational thinkers to the point that unfit people like DJT never could have won in 2016 ??

Some countries regulate the manipulation industries. Practitioners are licensed and forbidden to use some techniques.

Manipulation below the level of cognition, cynically designed to cause the audience to misapprehend the issue at hand is multiple multi billion dollar industries in this country. You can get more than one degree in the subject.

Does anybody believe the Founders would have perfectly protected this technology in the first amendment had they foreseen it being the primary tool used to establish and maintain every modern tyranny?

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

64%

Do you think that number reflects the baseline for approval and isn’t influenced by political allegiance?

 

[What if...?]

It can have dark money as a major factor, that takes advantage of things like a lack of education. We could do a lot better if education were improved, but how likely is that?

Somebody could make an app that scans content for manipulative content. It is designed, so can be identified. And doing so shouldn’t run into first amendment issues.

 

[Craig234]

Do you think that number reflects the baseline for approval and isn’t influenced by political allegiance?

No, Democrats are not completely unaffected by the political discussion in the country which is affected by the propaganda. It's not just a direct affect, but indirect - people talk to people, media reacts to people and so on.

 

[The AntiDonald]

It can have dark money as a major factor, that takes advantage of things like a lack of education. We could do a lot better if education were improved, but how likely is that?

Just look at the laws the red states are passing regarding education. They are doing their best to dumb the kids down.

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

No, Democrats are not completely unaffected by the political discussion in the country which is affected by the propaganda. It's not just a direct affect, but indirect - people talk to people, media reacts to people and so on.

So an outsized number of Republicans who disapprove is because of propaganda, but an outsized number of Democrats who approve is just politics?

 

[Craig234]

So an outsized number of Republicans who disapprove is because of propaganda, but an outsized number of Democrats who approve is just politics?

Sorry, I'm not seeing rationality or good faith in your comments. I'm seeing trollish partisanship trying to deflect. You're not actually responding to the topic - you have no comment on the problem of people who are 'against' something irratoinally without any alternative they're for.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Around the world, there are places you can't talk rationally to many people about some things. North Korea, China, Russia are examples where the people are heavily propagandized and have absorbed the propaganda.

Democracies are supposed to be the antidote. This isn't a new problem - even with the primitive technologies, it existed before our country was founded, leading the founders to see the rights to freedom on information as critical.

Unfortunately, the developments of mass media, plutocracy, and dark money have combined to replace rational well-informed free views for much of America with people in bubbles of propaganda.

Polls show only 36% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of Russia; only 11% of Republicans, those especially in that bubble.

It seems to me, that is not people who are being rational. It seems it is people who are expressing dislike of Biden, not rational criticism of his handling of Russia. The poll shows they don't want the US to get heavily involved in the conflict, sending troops; that's what Biden's done. It's not clear what they would like Biden to do differently, other than wave a wand to fix it.

The cause of the dissatisfaction seems to be the heavy levels of propagandization - Biden bad, Biden bad, Biden bad, more than anything. People who will dislike Biden, who will vote against him, not for rational reasons, but in a created bubble of propaganda. And that is dangerous, when there's nothing a president could do but be approved by the propagandists. It puts the dark money, not the people, in charge.

I think our country is becoming effectively ungovernable from the dark money right-wing propaganda

Yup, that's been the case for at least a decade now.

 

[tshade]

Some countries regulate the manipulation industries. Practitioners are licensed and forbidden to use some techniques.

Manipulation below the level of cognition, cynically designed to cause the audience to misapprehend the issue at hand is multiple multi billion dollar industries in this country. You can get more than one degree in the subject.

Does anybody believe the Founders would have perfectly protected this technology in the first amendment had they foreseen it being the primary tool used to establish and maintain every modern tyranny?

Nice post , and understood. However, education can dull it's effects

 

[Razoo]

Around the world, there are places you can't talk rationally to many people about some things. North Korea, China, Russia are examples where the people are heavily propagandized and have absorbed the propaganda.

Democracies are supposed to be the antidote. This isn't a new problem - even with the primitive technologies, it existed before our country was founded, leading the founders to see the rights to freedom on information as critical.

Unfortunately, the developments of mass media, plutocracy, and dark money have combined to replace rational well-informed free views for much of America with people in bubbles of propaganda.

Polls show only 36% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of Russia; only 11% of Republicans, those especially in that bubble.

It seems to me, that is not people who are being rational. It seems it is people who are expressing dislike of Biden, not rational criticism of his handling of Russia. The poll shows they don't want the US to get heavily involved in the conflict, sending troops; that's what Biden's done. It's not clear what they would like Biden to do differently, other than wave a wand to fix it.

The cause of the dissatisfaction seems to be the heavy levels of propagandization - Biden bad, Biden bad, Biden bad, more than anything. People who will dislike Biden, who will vote against him, not for rational reasons, but in a created bubble of propaganda. And that is dangerous, when there's nothing a president could do but be approved by the propagandists. It puts the dark money, not the people, in charge.

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[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

Sorry, I'm not seeing rationality or good faith in your comments. I'm seeing trollish partisanship trying to deflect. You're not actually responding to the topic - you have no comment on the problem of people who are 'against' something irratoinally without any alternative they're for.

It's a perfectly reasonable question. One side predictably gives a low rating and the other side predictably gives a high rating. Yet for one side your thesis is they are brainwashed but the other side is just....what? What do you way of that side's response?

 

[What if...?]

Nice post , and understood. However, education can dull it's effects

It does. The left is manipulated too, but it’s more difficult because the left tends to be better educated so know things. So our propagandists can’t just say anything they want about anything, because if your narrative includes factual misinformation that we happen to know is false we will reject the whole narrative. Much easier to do to the ignorant.

 

[Indydave]

Around the world, there are places you can't talk rationally to many people about some things. North Korea, China, Russia are examples where the people are heavily propagandized and have absorbed the propaganda.

Democracies are supposed to be the antidote. This isn't a new problem - even with the primitive technologies, it existed before our country was founded, leading the founders to see the rights to freedom on information as critical.

Unfortunately, the developments of mass media, plutocracy, and dark money have combined to replace rational well-informed free views for much of America with people in bubbles of propaganda.

Polls show only 36% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of Russia; only 11% of Republicans, those especially in that bubble.

It seems to me, that is not people who are being rational. It seems it is people who are expressing dislike of Biden, not rational criticism of his handling of Russia. The poll shows they don't want the US to get heavily involved in the conflict, sending troops; that's what Biden's done. It's not clear what they would like Biden to do differently, other than wave a wand to fix it.

The cause of the dissatisfaction seems to be the heavy levels of propagandization - Biden bad, Biden bad, Biden bad, more than anything. People who will dislike Biden, who will vote against him, not for rational reasons, but in a created bubble of propaganda. And that is dangerous, when there's nothing a president could do but be approved by the propagandists. It puts the dark money, not the people, in charge.

Hitler would be proud of the US today.......sure it's propaganda.....it's the advent of the internet and social media and every man is now a media......it's always been with us, this clannish hate.....but in the 60's we Americans managed to put it in its place.....and then along came Reagan and Falwell and Limbaugh and Murdoch......Biden is hated because he is a liberal potus plain and simple......what he has done with Putin is about the only sane adult things he could do......you can bet your last dollar if he had sent our armies immediately into the Ukraine the right would be hating him for that.......bottom line.....we are a nation of fools

 

[Surrealistik]

Around the world, there are places you can't talk rationally to many people about some things. North Korea, China, Russia are examples where the people are heavily propagandized and have absorbed the propaganda.

Democracies are supposed to be the antidote. This isn't a new problem - even with the primitive technologies, it existed before our country was founded, leading the founders to see the rights to freedom on information as critical.

Unfortunately, the developments of mass media, plutocracy, and dark money have combined to replace rational well-informed free views for much of America with people in bubbles of propaganda.

Polls show only 36% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of Russia; only 11% of Republicans, those especially in that bubble.

It seems to me, that is not people who are being rational. It seems it is people who are expressing dislike of Biden, not rational criticism of his handling of Russia. The poll shows they don't want the US to get heavily involved in the conflict, sending troops; that's what Biden's done. It's not clear what they would like Biden to do differently, other than wave a wand to fix it.

The cause of the dissatisfaction seems to be the heavy levels of propagandization - Biden bad, Biden bad, Biden bad, more than anything. People who will dislike Biden, who will vote against him, not for rational reasons, but in a created bubble of propaganda. And that is dangerous, when there's nothing a president could do but be approved by the propagandists. It puts the dark money, not the people, in charge.

Don't forget unlimited money in politics per Buckley v Valeo that lies at the fetid heart of it all; it's less the simple existence of such and more the sheer, uncontrolled quantity.

 

[Mithrae]

It's a perfectly reasonable question. One side predictably gives a low rating and the other side predictably gives a high rating. Yet for one side your thesis is they are brainwashed but the other side is just....what? What do you way of that side's response?

64% isn't exactly high. If it were 89%, corresponding to the Republicans' 11%, you might have a point.