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I.R.S. Scrutiny Went Beyond the Political

pbrauer

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Conservative groups were not the only ones that experienced long waits as the scrutinizing went beyond what was originally thought.

WASHINGTON — In 2010, a tiny Palestinian-rights group called Minnesota Break the Bonds applied to the Internal Revenue Service for tax-exempt status. Two years and a lot of prodding later, the I.R.S. sent the group’s leaders a series of questions and requests almost identical to the ones it was sending to Tea Party groups at the time.

What are “the qualifications and experience” of Break the Bonds instructors? Does the group “present a sufficiently full and fair explanation of the relevant facts” about the West Bank and Gaza? Provide copies of pamphlets, brochures or other literature distributed at group events? Reveal all fees collected and “any voluntary contributions” made at group functions? Provide a template of petitions, postcards and any other material used to influence legislation, and a detailed accounting of the time and money spent to influence state legislators?

The controversy that erupted in May has focused on an ideological question: Were conservative groups singled out for special treatment based on their politics, or did the I.R.S. equally target liberal groups? But a closer look at the I.R.S. operation suggests that the problem was less about ideology and more about how a process instructing reviewers to “be on the lookout” for selected terms was applied to any group that mentioned certain words in its application.

(snip)


I.R.S. Scrutiny Went Beyond the Political
 

bubbabgone

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Conservative groups were not the only ones that experienced long waits as the scrutinizing went beyond what was originally thought.

WASHINGTON — In 2010, a tiny Palestinian-rights group called Minnesota Break the Bonds applied to the Internal Revenue Service for tax-exempt status. Two years and a lot of prodding later, the I.R.S. sent the group’s leaders a series of questions and requests almost identical to the ones it was sending to Tea Party groups at the time.

What are “the qualifications and experience” of Break the Bonds instructors? Does the group “present a sufficiently full and fair explanation of the relevant facts” about the West Bank and Gaza? Provide copies of pamphlets, brochures or other literature distributed at group events? Reveal all fees collected and “any voluntary contributions” made at group functions? Provide a template of petitions, postcards and any other material used to influence legislation, and a detailed accounting of the time and money spent to influence state legislators?

The controversy that erupted in May has focused on an ideological question: Were conservative groups singled out for special treatment based on their politics, or did the I.R.S. equally target liberal groups? But a closer look at the I.R.S. operation suggests that the problem was less about ideology and more about how a process instructing reviewers to “be on the lookout” for selected terms was applied to any group that mentioned certain words in its application.

(snip)


I.R.S. Scrutiny Went Beyond the Political
Ah ... so ... the bottom line, then, is the BOLO call went out on Conservatives and Palestinians?
I must say, I am surprised the Obama Administration would want to flag Palestinians ... maybe that's really why Miller is gone.
HooWee ... musta been hell to pay when Obama found out he'd been blocking Palestinians.
 

pbrauer

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Ah ... so ... the bottom line, then, is the BOLO call went out on Conservatives and Palestinians?
I must say, I am surprised the Obama Administration would want to flag Palestinians ... maybe that's really why Miller is gone.
HooWee ... musta been hell to pay when Obama found out he'd been blocking Palestinians.
There is no evidence that Obama targeted anyone, from the OP:

Two months of investigation by Congress and the I.R.S. has produced new documents that have clouded much of the controversy’s narrative. In the more complicated picture now emerging, many organizations other than conservative groups were singled out: “progressive” organizations, medical marijuana purveyors, organizations formed to carry out President Obama’s health care law, and open source software developers who create software tools for computer code writers and distribute them free of charge.

“As soon as you say the words ‘open source,’ like other organizations that use ‘Tea Party’ or ‘Occupy,’ it gets you red-flagged,” said Luis Villa, a lawyer and a member of the board of directors of the Open Source Initiative. The I.R.S. feared that such groups were really moneymaking enterprises.

According to the Treasury inspector general for tax administration, the I.R.S. received 199,689 applications for tax-exempt status between 2010 and 2012. In 2012 alone, the agency received 73,319, of which about 22,000 were not approved in the initial review process. The inspector general looked at 296 applications flagged as potentially being from political groups. That means most of the applications pulled aside for further scrutiny in those years had nothing to do with politics, conservative or liberal, just as most of the red flags thrown up by the I.R.S.’s lookout lists were not overtly political.

Chi Eta Phi Sorority, a mainly African-American nurses’ society that advertises its mission as “social change,” applied for 501(c)(3) charitable status on June 24, 2011, days before the I.R.S. tightened its scrutiny of tax exemption applications. The organization fell under a “group rulings” flag in one of the lookout lists. Two years and 73 questions later, Chi Eta Phi is still waiting for the I.R.S.’s Cincinnati office, which handles the tax exemption applications, to respond.
 

bubbabgone

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There is no evidence that Obama targeted anyone, from the OP:

Two months of investigation by Congress and the I.R.S. has produced new documents that have clouded much of the controversy’s narrative. In the more complicated picture now emerging, many organizations other than conservative groups were singled out: “progressive” organizations, medical marijuana purveyors, organizations formed to carry out President Obama’s health care law, and open source software developers who create software tools for computer code writers and distribute them free of charge.

“As soon as you say the words ‘open source,’ like other organizations that use ‘Tea Party’ or ‘Occupy,’ it gets you red-flagged,” said Luis Villa, a lawyer and a member of the board of directors of the Open Source Initiative. The I.R.S. feared that such groups were really moneymaking enterprises.

According to the Treasury inspector general for tax administration, the I.R.S. received 199,689 applications for tax-exempt status between 2010 and 2012. In 2012 alone, the agency received 73,319, of which about 22,000 were not approved in the initial review process. The inspector general looked at 296 applications flagged as potentially being from political groups. That means most of the applications pulled aside for further scrutiny in those years had nothing to do with politics, conservative or liberal, just as most of the red flags thrown up by the I.R.S.’s lookout lists were not overtly political.

Chi Eta Phi Sorority, a mainly African-American nurses’ society that advertises its mission as “social change,” applied for 501(c)(3) charitable status on June 24, 2011, days before the I.R.S. tightened its scrutiny of tax exemption applications. The organization fell under a “group rulings” flag in one of the lookout lists. Two years and 73 questions later, Chi Eta Phi is still waiting for the I.R.S.’s Cincinnati office, which handles the tax exemption applications, to respond.
Attaboy, Pete ... you hang in there no matter what ... after maybe 50 years history may grant you a grudging respect for holding out.

pete as japanese soldier.jpg
 

Morrigi

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Well, considering that Conservatives and Palestinians have been a major pain in the backside for the Obama administration lately, I can't say I'm surprised.

Of course that doesn't dismiss the fact that it's incredibly biased, dishonest, and immoral.
 

trfjr

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There is no evidence that Obama targeted anyone
it took almost a year into the Watergate investigation before Nixon was tied to it. You want to call the IRS scandal over and that investigation has only been going on less then two months

with your logic there shouldn't even been the Watergate investigation they caught the guys who did the breakin that night
 

TheNextEra

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it took almost a year into the Watergate investigation before Nixon was tied to it. You want to call the IRS scandal over and that investigation has only been going on less then two months

with your logic there shouldn't even been the Watergate investigation they caught the guys who did the breakin that night
Doesn't change the fact that right now there is no evidence tying Obama to this.

Despite already in this thread some thinking Obama is tied to this.
 

pbrauer

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it took almost a year into the Watergate investigation before Nixon was tied to it. You want to call the IRS scandal over and that investigation has only been going on less then two months

with your logic there shouldn't even been the Watergate investigation they caught the guys who did the breakin that night
There is no parallel with Nixon and this scandal. NONE. With Watergate there was the illegal breaking, with the IRS there appears to be no illegal activity that is apparent. No Woodward & Bernstein and no deep throat.
 

specklebang

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FWIW, I went through the 501c3 process for Advocacy for exceptional cats in imminent danger and it is a long & complicated process. I was told that animal rescue is the least amount of stress you get from the IRS and 9 months into the process, I withdrew my application for other reasons.

I think I'm trying to say that it is not wrong that it takes a long time to process these things and I would think (and hope) that the 501c4 process should be even more challenging. Let's realize that these ar businesses that want to be exempt from taxation and thus not contribute to society, only to push an agenda on society.

So, I have no sympathy for any of them. While I am very discouraged with Obama, I don't see how this becomes a WH scandal unless there are formal instructions from the WH to the IRS. Otherwise, each office chooses who to harass and who to be gentle to. Do persona;l politics ever play a role in this? Sure, how could they not. If I'm a Republican, I might be inclined to hassle the Democrats and vice-versa. This is not how it should be but it is just part of reality.

This scandal doesn't seem to have any legs. In the case of F&F I thought there would be heads rolling. Instead, it seems to have been forgotten. This was a case of sheer incompetence and did some definable damage. The IRS "scandal" is pretty much meaningless by comparison. .
 

trfjr

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There is no parallel with Nixon and this scandal. NONE. With Watergate there was the illegal breaking, with the IRS there appears to be no illegal activity that is apparent. No Woodward & Bernstein and no deep throat.
Google and read the Hatch act. And they FBI wouldn't be involved if their wasn't a possible crime committed
 

trfjr

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Doesn't change the fact that right now there is no evidence tying Obama to this.

Despite already in this thread some thinking Obama is tied to this.
and right now in this thread you have liberals wanting to call the investigation off because after less then two months they haven't tied any one in the WH to it yet
 

pbrauer

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Google and read the Hatch act. And they FBI wouldn't be involved if their wasn't a possible crime committed
That's not true, the FBI got involved with the Valerie Plame case and its wasn't known if a crime had been committed. The FBI investigates and then determines whether or not a crime had been committed. Hatch Act is irrelevant.
 

rocket88

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and right now in this thread you have liberals wanting to call the investigation off because after less then two months they haven't tied any one in the WH to it yet
And predictably, you have conservatives who want to discount evidence that doesn't say what they want it to say. If you want to know the "truth," which inevitably every conservative says they want to, you have to take any evidence seriously. Truth =/= confirmation bias.
 

TheNextEra

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and right now in this thread you have liberals wanting to call the investigation off because after less then two months they haven't tied any one in the WH to it yet
There is no liberal in this thread saying the investigation should be called off. So either you are lying or you're not even bothering to read this thread. The only thing a couple of people have said is there currently no link right now between Obama and this IRS scandal.
 

trfjr

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There is no liberal in this thread saying the investigation should be called off. So either you are lying or you're not even bothering to read this thread. The only thing a couple of people have said is there currently no link right now between Obama and this IRS scandal.
key word is "currently" give it some time grasshopper. like i have mentioned dozen of times it took a year with the Watergate investigation before Nixon was forced out of office, and would like to add they never tied Nixon directly they never proved he gave the order just that he had knowledge after the fact and covered up and lied that he had no knowledge
 

CanadaJohn

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Doesn't change the fact that right now there is no evidence tying Obama to this.

Despite already in this thread some thinking Obama is tied to this.
There's really no evidence tying Obama to anything - period. This President is responsible for nothing. Only President in the history of the nation whose only role, apparently, is travelling, entertaining various champions of sports, giving vacuous, boring speeches and working on his March Madness brackets. Other than that, what is he tied to??
 

pbrauer

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key word is "currently" give it some time grasshopper. like i have mentioned dozen of times it took a year with the Watergate investigation before Nixon was forced out of office, and would like to add they never tied Nixon directly they never proved he gave the order just that he had knowledge after the fact and covered up and lied that he had no knowledge
Nixon likely left office because he would have been impeached in the House and convicted in the Senate.
 

TheNextEra

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key word is "currently" give it some time grasshopper. like i have mentioned dozen of times it took a year with the Watergate investigation before Nixon was forced out of office, and would like to add they never tied Nixon directly they never proved he gave the order just that he had knowledge after the fact and covered up and lied that he had no knowledge
Too bad that if you take your comments and 10 cents you still couldn't get a decent cup of coffee. You keep up the good fight with conspiracy theories at least it's entertaining.
 

TheNextEra

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There's really no evidence tying Obama to anything - period. This President is responsible for nothing. Only President in the history of the nation whose only role, apparently, is travelling, entertaining various champions of sports, giving vacuous, boring speeches and working on his March Madness brackets. Other than that, what is he tied to??
Actually there's plenty to tie Obama "legitimately" too but in this case no there is no ties to Obama and this IRS scandal right now. That's the FACTS.
 

Deuce

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There's really no evidence tying Obama to anything - period. This President is responsible for nothing. Only President in the history of the nation whose only role, apparently, is travelling, entertaining various champions of sports, giving vacuous, boring speeches and working on his March Madness brackets. Other than that, what is he tied to??
Does everything have to be absolute to you? Either the president is personally involved in literally every action the government takes, or he does nothing but parties all day? There's no in between for you?
 

JoeTrumps

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There is no liberal in this thread saying the investigation should be called off. So either you are lying or you're not even bothering to read this thread.
Guess we're not reading the same thread then. According to the OP there is no NEED for an investigation because there was no singling out of right wing groups. That sounds like he made his mind up to me, so it is rational to point out to him that:

1. the investigation is not over
2. finding one palestinian group and one black sorority that were held up to IRS scrutiny and comparing that with the tea party groups held up en masse by IRS dirty tricks is a stretch to put it mildly. hardly proof that these attacks weren't politically motivated.
3. nobody is saying Obama was aware of it when it happened, but that doesn't mean he wasn't aware of a cover up. according to reports the Administration had this administration last year during the heat of the election, yet somehow this stuff didn't leak out until after the election. I want to know exactly how that all went down, and was anyone in the administration guilty of lying to protect Obama's reelection chances.

so I've walked you through it now. So could you all stop repeating over and over that Obama didn't know anything about it. It's bigger than just that question, understand? which is why, black sorority and the PLO aside, the investigation must, and SHOULD, continue.
 

apdst

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Conservative groups were not the only ones that experienced long waits as the scrutinizing went beyond what was originally thought.

WASHINGTON — In 2010, a tiny Palestinian-rights group called Minnesota Break the Bonds applied to the Internal Revenue Service for tax-exempt status. Two years and a lot of prodding later, the I.R.S. sent the group’s leaders a series of questions and requests almost identical to the ones it was sending to Tea Party groups at the time.

What are “the qualifications and experience” of Break the Bonds instructors? Does the group “present a sufficiently full and fair explanation of the relevant facts” about the West Bank and Gaza? Provide copies of pamphlets, brochures or other literature distributed at group events? Reveal all fees collected and “any voluntary contributions” made at group functions? Provide a template of petitions, postcards and any other material used to influence legislation, and a detailed accounting of the time and money spent to influence state legislators?

The controversy that erupted in May has focused on an ideological question: Were conservative groups singled out for special treatment based on their politics, or did the I.R.S. equally target liberal groups? But a closer look at the I.R.S. operation suggests that the problem was less about ideology and more about how a process instructing reviewers to “be on the lookout” for selected terms was applied to any group that mentioned certain words in its application.

(snip)


I.R.S. Scrutiny Went Beyond the Political
But, why did the IRS admit that wrong doing was done? Why did Lois Lerner invoke her 5th Amendment rights? If nothing wrong was done, that is...
 

apdst

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There is no liberal in this thread saying the investigation should be called off. So either you are lying or you're not even bothering to read this thread. The only thing a couple of people have said is there currently no link right now between Obama and this IRS scandal.
in this thread...yet...
 

pbrauer

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But, why did the IRS admit that wrong doing was done? Why did Lois Lerner invoke her 5th Amendment rights? If nothing wrong was done, that is...
Because wrong was done, read the forth paragraph of the OP link. I have no idea why Lois Lerner took the 5th.
 

Deuce

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But, why did the IRS admit that wrong doing was done? Why did Lois Lerner invoke her 5th Amendment rights? If nothing wrong was done, that is...
Are you suggesting taking the 5th is evidence of guilt?
 
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