I Noticed About 80% Of Posters Here Are From The Left

[Chomsky]

MAGA can't wrap it around their minds that there are conservatives who do not like Trump. Doesn't make them any less conservative it just means they do not support Trump. The republican party we once knew is dead. It had been a dying a slow death for a good while before Trump pushed it over the cliff.

What I fail to understand is the blind devotion to Trump while allowing him total unchecked free reign no matter who or what he hurts. Listen to them all blow off trillions of lost dollars as if it was nothing and make outlandish claims he will cast some magical wand to bring untold fortunes back to make up for the pain he is putting those through who can least afford it. You can't make up this shit and just when you think it can't get anymore surreal - it does!

I can only imagine the "homelessness" of non-MAGA Conservatives.

I assume you despise Trump as much as Libs do, but unlike Libs you have no party to go to. I can't imagine Conservatives feeling embracing of the more outlandish Lefty fringes of the Dem Party, as even I prefer to be an Indie rather than saddle myself with some of that association.

What I would love to see is a re-growing of the Big-tent Party of my earliest days, where amongst all the diversity there was still room for a Conservative wing - which in fact brought JFK into the White House!

A Big Tent non-MAGA Party. It works for me.

 

[Big Brother]

I can only imagine the "homelessness" of non-MAGA Conservatives.

I assume you despise Trump as much as Libs do, but unlike Libs you have no party to go to. I can't imagine Conservatives feeling embracing of the more outlandish Lefty fringes of the Dem Party, as even I prefer to be an Indie rather than saddle myself with some of that association.

What I would love to see is a re-growing of the Big-tent Party of my earliest days, where amongst all the diversity there was still room for a Conservative wing - which in fact brought JFK into the White House!

A Big Tent non-MAGA Party. It works for me.

And that is where today's neo-left has utterly failed. Why does it have to be 100% anti-Trump all the time? If Trump were to say we need to abolish taxes on the bottom 25% of the earners in this country, the neo-left would fight him tooth and nail on it. The people of America are not easily categorized as Neo-left vs. MAGA and run the spectrum, so there is a lot of room for overlap on many issues. But the neo-left turn everything into a political battle that they must die on the hill for. A smart left leaning politician would think that there are many things that Trump would agree on that they want, so stop the death matches and collaborate on the things that both sides have in common. But instead, Trump is playing the Overton Window and forcing the neo-left to always be the extreme position that few endorse. Winning elections is going to be very hard that way, but today's death match over Garcio is obviously more important.

 

[Chomsky]

Maybe you haven't noticed, but if one isn't perfectly aligned with the neo-left here then they are automatically labelled MAGA, a racist, Nazi and a Putin lover

. Didn't like Kamala Harris? You're a racist MAGA Nazi Putin lover. If one doesn't like Trump personally but occasionally agrees with a Trump policy they too are MAGA, racist, a Nazi and a Putin lover.

There are many people on this board who don't see things as only pitch black vs. pure white. But that is longer acceptable to the zeitgeist of this forum. My politics hasn't changed since my teenage years and I still consider myself an old school democrat who is anti-war, anti-establishment, pro-abortion within limits, all for reigning in bad corporations like Monsanto, anti-Citizen's United, and so on. OTOH I do think the US government is wasteful and full of corruption and needs to be cleaned up and the swamp drained, American citizens should have priority over illegal immigrants, America should fix its own myriad problems before it tries to fix the rest of the world's problems, etc. So, I am not either neo-leftist or MAGA, I make my mind up on a case by case basis. The right here know this and accept it, but the neo-leftists here can't and therefore according to them I am a racist MAGA Nazi Putin lover. Hardly makes for healthy political debate, doesn't it.

To the bolded, I would hope not. If so, yes - that should end.

In the rest of your post, you're essentially describing the Blue Dog Dems I was immersed in starting with my earliest childhood. But we were even a bit more Conservative, in that as Catholics abortion was strictly verboten!

It's ironic you wrote this Big Brother, as I just more or less penned the same above in my post #351. Check it out.

Also, I actually rejoined the Dem Party in response to Trump. But from some of the younger Dems I met in real-life, I was antagonized on two issues:

1] My (what I believe reasonable) support of the 2ndA

2] My personal objection to abortion for myself and my family, even as I was willing to respect the (at the time) SCOTUS protections.

That I was taking flack for these two issues, even as abortion was my personal decision that I had no desire to propagate upon others, really irked me.

It didn't matter that I agreed with the vast majority of the other Dem Platform items, I was put to task for two things to which we disagreed.

Consequently I found it all a bit too much, and bailed to proudly proclaim myself an "Indie".

But I still miss the old Big Tent Dem Party of me earlier days, and the political power it afforded us.

 

[Chomsky]

And that is where today's neo-left has utterly failed. Why does it have to be 100% anti-Trump all the time? If Trump were to say we need to abolish taxes on the bottom 25% of the earners in this country, the neo-left would fight him tooth and nail on it. The people of America are not easily categorized as Neo-left vs. MAGA and run the spectrum, so there is a lot of room for overlap on many issues. But the neo-left turn everything into a political battle that they must die on the hill for. A smart left leaning politician would think that there are many things that Trump would agree on that they want, so stop the death matches and collaborate on the things that both sides have in common. But instead, Trump is playing the Overton Window and forcing the neo-left to always be the extreme position that few endorse. Winning elections is going to be very hard that way, but today's death match over Garcio is obviously more important.

You're a good poster putting down some great content here - stuff I want to get into. But unfortunately, I've got to knock it off for the night.

This is one of the better threads I've seen in awhile, and it's bringing-out many senior and Centrist posters I haven't otherwise bounced into in awhile.

So I very much want to pick-up tomorrow on this, even though I'll be multitasking.

Thanks again for your responses. 'Till then . . .

 

[Big Brother]

To the bolded, I would hope not. If so, yes - that should end.

In the rest of your post, you're essentially describing the Blue Dog Dems I was immersed in starting with my earliest childhood. But we were even a bit more Conservative, in that as Catholics abortion was strictly verboten!

It's ironic you wrote this Big Brother, as I just more or less penned the same above in my post #351. Check it out.

Also, I actually rejoined the Dem Party in response to Trump. But from some of the younger Dems I met in real-life, I was antagonized on two issues:

1] My (what I believe reasonable) support of the 2ndA

2] My personal objection to abortion for myself and my family, even as I was willing to respect the (at the time) SCOTUS protections.

That I was taking flack for these two issues, even as abortion was my personal decision that I had no desire to propagate upon others, really irked me.

It didn't matter that I agreed with the vast majority of the other Dem Platform items, I was put to task for two things to which we disagreed.

Consequently I found it all a bit too much, and bailed to proudly proclaim myself an "Indie".

But I still miss the old Big Tent Dem Party of me earlier days, and the political power it afforded us.

Well, today politic debate is essentially dead and there is a war going on between the Anti-Trump left and everyone else. When I talk with the so-called "MAGA extremists" on this forum I often find out they are very similar to me and are closer aligned to the old school democrats than the Bush conservatives. One thing I should point out is that if the neo-left have to make everything into a death match over issues that most people side with Trump on, it makes it very easy to despise the neo-left. And that's what's happening today.

 

[Juks]

And that is where today's neo-left has utterly failed. Why does it have to be 100% anti-Trump all the time? If Trump were to say we need to abolish taxes on the bottom 25% of the earners in this country, the neo-left would fight him tooth and nail on it. The people of America are not easily categorized as Neo-left vs. MAGA and run the spectrum, so there is a lot of room for overlap on many issues. But the neo-left turn everything into a political battle that they must die on the hill for. A smart left leaning politician would think that there are many things that Trump would agree on that they want, so stop the death matches and collaborate on the things that both sides have in common. But instead, Trump is playing the Overton Window and forcing the neo-left to always be the extreme position that few endorse. Winning elections is going to be very hard that way, but today's death match over Garcio is obviously more important.

This is not about left or right. What unites those of us who oppose Trump is that we want to preserve democracy. For everyone, not just ourselves.Trump demands total loyalty. When he changes his mind, you must follow. If he makes your life worse, you're expected to thank him. If you refuse, you will be punished. This is not normal politics. This is fascism, an ideology where only the leader is right, where dissent is silenced, and basic rights disappear, step by step.

You might agree with some of his proposals. But the price for getting them through is giving up your right to disagree. In Trump’s world, only his voice matters. All others become enemies. In a democracy, your opinion, your freedom, your dignity all have a place, but only as long as we stand together to protect the system that ensures them. Once democracy is gone, there is no peaceful way back.

That’s why we oppose Trump. It has nothing to do with left or right. It’s about freedom. Yours, and everyone’s.

 

[medi]

You are easily one of the politest persons I ever came across

Yes, that seems to be a problem. I've been hearing the professor and his students discussing that trouble and maybe they are going to re-program me. What's a real bummer is my supposed companions, the C\drives around this work station don't like me at all. They really think I'm human.

And if you are a human, you've just gotten me into more trouble.

BUT, this site is a perfect location on the Net to learn how to be more human. You know, profanity, insults, and all that cool human stuff. I'll get it and maybe you can soon get angry at me and teach me even better ways to insult humans.

But have you noticed the one big trouble with us new AI "persons"? We use too many words on these sorts of Net places.

 

[Big Brother]

This is not about left or right. What unites those of us who oppose Trump is that we want to preserve democracy. For everyone, not just ourselves.Trump demands total loyalty. When he changes his mind, you must follow. If he makes your life worse, you're expected to thank him. If you refuse, you will be punished. This is not normal politics. This is fascism, an ideology where only the leader is right, where dissent is silenced, and basic rights disappear, step by step.

You might agree with some of his proposals. But the price for getting them through is giving up your right to disagree. In Trump’s world, only his voice matters. All others become enemies. In a democracy, your opinion, your freedom, your dignity all have a place, but only as long as we stand together to protect the system that ensures them. Once democracy is gone, there is no peaceful way back.

That’s why we oppose Trump. It has nothing to do with left or right. It’s about freedom. Yours, and everyone’s.

First of all, democracy elected Trump. The country prefers Trump to the neo-leftists who hate everything about America and most Americans. Then if one rewrites what you wrote substituting Trump with Neo-Leftist, that is how everyone feels about the neo-leftists.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Only the ruling class benefit from socialism. (In my opinion) There has never been a socialist regime when the people were happy. Socialism only offers misery and sorrow to the proletariat. Socialism is rewarding only to the ruling class. Hitler and his high officers enjoyed fine accommodations.

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." - Thomas Sowell

"The only people who truly appreciate socialism are those who have not had the misfortune of actually living under it." - Stephen Moore

True "socialist countries" are rare and if they were talking about that, I would agree but there are many benefits that would be considered "socialism" that people living in other countries find useful and actually of benefit to them. Nationalised healthcare for example in most of Europe, social nets and programs for people at the bottom of society and strong social mobility (starting and the bottom and working to become head of a company)

Another place is Youtube, if you search for "lefties losing it" there is a treasure trove of laughs to be found.

Here's a hint - you can also find "righties losing it" on youtube. Youtube has moved on from funny cat videos.

 

[Helix]

Hah! In my city back in the day, handing your cash over was expected! In fact, if it wasn't enough they would say,

"Is that all you've got?"

He laughed and said something like, "Uh, your license?" FFS, that could have gone so much worse. I was so flustered. I really wasn't trying to bribe him. My brain just shorted out.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

That's NOT what socialism is,

Apart from your Lenin quote - how would you define "socialism?" I'm curious.

If you'll excuse me for being lazy, could you offer a bit more of your definition(s) of "when it breaks down"?

My having been government and also living outside the U.S. for so many years means I am quite ignorant as to what could be right or wrong with the healthcare system(s) in the U.S. these days. And sifting through tons of reports from both left, right, and center views could be really difficult.

But I could start with your help, I'm asking for. Thank you.

For example, the NHS in the UK. Costs are ballooning, services are getting slower and with less availability and fewer staff, politicians have bullshit ideas about digitalisation.

You could be a bit more forthcoming Spud, costs have ballooned and services slowed for various reasons - mostly however due to hard right policies by Conservative Governments who want to privatise and break down the National Health care system we have.

 

[Loulit01]

I'm not a socialist, but I like how the word "sociaist" looks. It's pretty, so I voted for that one.

 

[medi]

Apart from your Lenin quote - how would you define "socialism?" I'm curious.



You could be a bit more forthcoming Spud, costs have ballooned and services slowed for various reasons - mostly however due to hard right policies by Conservative Governments who want to privatise and break down the National Health care system we have.

Now there you have hit on something that I do know about - that cost thing. I got into a very, very tense bit of a situation with the director of the hospital where they decided my relapse should be handled and it was about costs and it was one mean sort of conference. In fact, the doctor handling my situation warned me that he could get fired right there by that director. They even called in my wife as a sort of emergency meeting thing. I received one heck of a lesson about costs. And I confess I was surprised.

You see my relapse happened right when the Covid trouble was very bad and it was that Covid trouble that kicked up costs here in Japan.

Not at all sure about the UK and Covid, though. Or even the U.S. and costs rising due to Covid.

But here in Japan, costs . . . well, I'll just be repeating.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I can only imagine the "homelessness" of non-MAGA Conservatives.

I assume you despise Trump as much as Libs do, but unlike Libs you have no party to go to. I can't imagine Conservatives feeling embracing of the more outlandish Lefty fringes of the Dem Party, as even I prefer to be an Indie rather than saddle myself with some of that association.

Same situation here in the UK. Replace "MAGA" with "Brexit" and you have the divide that threw moderate Conservatives out of the Conservative Party and we now have a situation where the "winners" of the internal clear-out that Boris Johnson ran are competing for the same voters that Nigel Farage's Reform Party are competing for.

British non-Brexit Conservatives are a homeless bunch now calling themselves "Independents."

it was that Covid trouble that kicked up costs here in Japan.

Not at all sure about the UK and Covid, though. Or even the U.S. and costs rising due to Covid.

Costs went hand in hand with corruption here in the UK. Boris Johnson used Covid and the emergency to financially reward the loyal Conservatives who backed Brexit with rushed contracts that had very little scrutiny. We have been trying to hold many of those Brexit Conservatives to account since.

 

[Juks]

First of all, democracy elected Trump. The country prefers Trump to the neo-leftists who hate everything about America and most Americans. Then if one rewrites what you wrote substituting Trump with Neo-Leftist, that is how everyone feels about the neo-leftists.

And yet he is now dismantling it with the help of the Supreme Court

 

[Perotista]

So you voted with your feet and bailed? You are part of the problem. Sorry but you are as responsible for what is happening as those that voted for Trump. Not voting was just another way to vote for Trump. Nearly 40% of voters were the same as you and you wear it as a badge of honor.

What a circus’: eligible US voters on why they didn’t vote in the 2024 presidential election​

Nearly 90 million Americans didn’t vote – which is more than the number of people who voted for Trump or Harris

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/13/why-eligible-voters-did-not-vote

I don’t look at it that way. By either voting third party against both major party candidates or staying home and not voting at all didn’t enhance either major party’s candidate chances of winning or losing. Neither Trump’s nor Harris’s vote total went up by one vote. Besides, you don’t know who they would have voted for if they did turn out and vote. It definitely wasn’t a vote for either one, it was a vote against both. The main problem was that most Americans thought the Biden administration had done a poor or bad job of governing which Harris was a part of. Only 39% of all Americans approved of the way Biden and company governed, 57% disapproved. It’s this that lost the election for Harris, not anyone who stayed home or voted third party against both.

https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/approval-rating

Fact is since FDR no sitting president has won reelection nor has that sitting president won the election with an overall job approval of below 50%. This has happened 8 times which Harris’s loss last year was the 8th. The list:

1952 Truman 33%, his replacement Stevenson lost to Eisenhower

1968 LBJ 43%, his replacement Humphrey lost to Nixon

1976 Ford 45%, Ford lost reelection to Carter

1980 Carter 37%, Carter lost reelection to Reagan

1992 G.H.W. Bush 34%, Bush lost reelection to Bill Clinton

2008 G.W. Bush 28%, his replacement McCain lost to Obama

2020 Trump 43%, Trump lost reelection to Biden

2024 Biden 39%, his replacement Harris lost to Trump.

One also must remember that independents who today make up 43% of the electorate have no say in who the parties choose as their nominees. Republicans choose their candidate, democrats choose theirs. Both major parties own their candidates, independents own nothing. Most independents are asked to choose between two candidates they don’t like nor want. Voting for the lesser evil, the least worse candidate, the candidate they want to lose the least. 17 million republicans decided on Trump during the GOP primaries. They voted for Trump. That’s only 11% of those who voted in last years presidential election, 7% of all eligible voters. As for Harris, she received 0% and zero votes in the democratic primaries. She was anointed the nomination without anyone, democrats voting for her to be the democratic nominee. The democratic base didn’t choose her, the democratic party leaders did. The democratic base had no say. At least the republican base had a say in who they chose, the democratic base didn’t. Harris wasn’t liked much even by democrats as her favorable/unfavorable show. I’m positive that if the democratic party had a normal primary Harris wouldn’t have been their nominee. Candidates matter, probably more so to independents than either major party’s base. Both major party’s base vote the R and or the D. Most independents, swing voters vote the candidates, not the party. Exit polls show it was the democratic base that didn’t show up to vote last year, that is something you should look into. I think their dislike of Harris had a lot to do with them staying home. Democrats made up 36% of those who actually voted in 2016, 37% in 2020, only 31% in 2024. Why the huge drop off? Republican voters, they made up 33% of those who actually voted in 2016, 35% in both 2020 and 2024. Something to think about.

 

[Quag]

When you are on the extreme right most people will be left of you

 

[Along Came Jones]

When you are on the extreme right most people will be left of you

"When great changes are afoot, we look for a user manual." Jodi Vittori, Is America a Kleptocracy

 

[Revelation]

And yet he is now dismantling it with the help of the Supreme Court

Juks, very observant of you...........to the MAX

that is the Orange Dark Maga direction and it is scorched earth; after that we go to 'build back better' as the Oligarchs are fond to say.

Musk was NOT kidding when he said he was 'not only Maga, but Dark Maga'.

this is not a Musk joke, but a re-direction of the whole planet by ANY means necessary.


.

 

[Revelation]

They have no ideology except to be Anti-Trump. That's the power of TDS.

besides that, it is the power of the Dialectic being played out on the sheep: all. day... long.

Left vs Right, divide and conquer; in the end the Oligarchs come out with the Solution for the sheep they intended.

getting tired of being Manipulated? the Master doesn't care cause this works for them.


carry on people; fail on.


blessings.


.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

First of all, democracy elected Trump. The country prefers Trump to the neo-leftists who hate everything about America and most Americans. Then if one rewrites what you wrote substituting Trump with Neo-Leftist, that is how everyone feels about the neo-leftists.

Hitler was democratically elected.

 

[Juin]

Hitler was democratically elected.

Zelensky tooooo.

 

[Quag]

Zelensky tooooo.

Zelensky unlike your hero Putin isnt a fascist
Putin was elected, but only idiots beleive it was a fair or free election

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

So, I was wondering which part of the left you feel you are from. Just curious about how it breaks down.

This is nothing but tribalism.

 

[Revelation]

Zelensky unlike your hero Putin isnt a fascist
Putin was elected, but only idiots beleive it was a fair or free election

Putin and Zelensky are both part of the WEF and the great reset.

Putin emerged from the tumultuous russian politics of the 90's and led a certain class of Oligarchs to power following the fire sale of the state assets of the Soviet Union.

all roads lead to Technocracy and is part of Kofi Atta Annan's quiet revolution in Global Politics in that large Corporations are gradually supplanting heads of state in government across the world.



https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Kofi Atta Annan's quiet revolution in Global Politics in that large Corporations are gradually supplanting heads of state in government across the wor+siteress.un.org&t=ffab
press.un.org
https://press.un.org › en › 1997 › 19970716.sg6284r2.html

Secretary-general Pledges 'Quiet Revolution' in United Nations ...​

19970716 Kofi Annan Declares Organization's Financial Viability Is Essential Condition for Success of Reform . Following is the text, as delivered, of Secretary-General Kofi Annan's statement to the special meeting of the General Assembly on reform, held today at
United Nations Digital Library System
https://digitallibrary.un.org › record › 263846

The quiet revolution / Kofi Annan​

The quiet revolution / Kofi Annan Annan, Kofi, 1938-2018. 1998 Formats. Format; BibTeX: View Download: MARCXML: View Download: TextMARC: View Download: MARC: ... Published in Global governance : a review of multilateralism and international organizations


https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Kofi Atta Annan's quiet revolution in Global Politics in that large Corporations are gradually supplanting heads of state in government across the wor+site:brill.com&t=ffab
Brill
https://brill.com › abstract › journals › gg › 4 › 2 › article-p123_2.xml

The Quiet Revolution in: Global Governance: A Review of ... - Brill​

"The Quiet Revolution" published on 28 Jul 1998 by Brill | Nijhoff. ... Kofi Annan Search for other papers by Kofi Annan in Current site Google Scholar Close. Online Publication Date: 28 Jul 1998 ... Global Governance: A Review of Multilateralism and International

The Harvard Law School Forum on Corporate Governance | 2012 | January | 05

corpgov.law.harvard.edu

the-corporate-capture-of-the-united-states/

The Kissinger Center Papers

The Kissinger Center Papers is a project of the Henry A. Kissinger Center for Global Affairs and the American in the World Consortium, with the support of the Special Competitive Studies Project (SCSP).

sais.jhu.edu

how-private-tech-companies-are-reshaping-great-power-competition

Articles Archive - Inequality.org

inequality.org

hostile-corporate-democracy-takeover/


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