I may get in trouble for saying this....

[watsup]

....but it seems like Ukraine’s Nazi-based Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish.

Make no mistake, to brandish oneself as a “Nazi” day and age is an outrage, but isn’t it up to each individual nation to come to terms with its own far right extremist problem? Here in the United States, we have “Nazis” who burn synagogues and actually murder Jews—because they are Jews. The same happens in both Eastern and Western Europe. I have looked and looked, but I cannot find any indication of such incidents in Ukraine. Here is what an article from the Jerusalem Post had to say about the Azov battalion and Ukranian Nazism:

“Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly listed the "denazification of Ukraine" as one of his motives for invading the country.

While Ukraine, along with many other European countries, has far-right political parties and neo-Nazi organizations, the fact that since its turn to the West in 2014, there have been prominent Jews in the Ukrainian government and its current president is Jewish make this claim seem ludicrous.

However, since its incorporation into Ukraine's official armed forces it has moved away from neo-Nazism, and a Ukrainian Jewish group as early as 2016 did not oppose lifting the US ban.”

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-700396

So my point is this: yes, Ukraine has a Nazi problem, but there is all of ONE member of that associated party in the Ukrainian parliament, and the problem is UKRAINES to solve, same as with far right extremists in any other nation (like Russia).

I am asking you to discuss the topic, per se, rather than post variations of “Nazi sympathizer” in response. As it is at the present moment, the Azov battalion are “freedom fighters” trying to keep the military forces of the evil murderous thug Putin from taking over the country. When this is all over, then we can worry about their status, per se.

My point again: I am not trying to overlook the terrible toll that the German Nazis took on the Jewish population of Ukraine in WWII. If I remember correctly, between 200,000 and 300,000 Ukrainian Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis at that time. In addition, the military forces of the Germans and the Russians committed numerous atrocities on one another, and that seems to be the basis for the present dalliance with Nazism by far right Ukranian extremists, an intense hatred of Russians rather than a hatefulness towards Jews, per se.

 

[Evilroddy]

@watsup

Except when members of the Azov Battalion are allegedly caught on video while shooting captured Russian POWs in the legs for torture and sick sport. Then it is a problem for everyone because a) it is a war crime and because b) it feeds into the Kremlin's propaganda machine as grist for more grinding war.

Cheers, be well and survive.
Evilroddy.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

but it seems like Ukraine’s Nazi-based Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish.

This is true. But don't forget they also don't like the current Ukrainian government either and have made statements that suggest they would like to overthrow them.

Though all talk of the Azov Battalion seems somewhat pointless considering they were the battalion stationed in Mariupol.

 

[CaughtInThe]

i think it was smart for Putin to concentrate on this one group while he murdered/slaughtered the rest of the country.

maybe he can present that case at the Pearly Gates.

 

[watsup]

@watsup

Except when members of the Azov Battalion are allegedly caught on video while shooting captured Russian POWs in the legs for torture and sick sport. Then it is a problem for everyone because a) it is a war crime and because b) it feeds into the Kremlin's propaganda machine as grist for more grinding war.

Cheers, be well and survive.
Evilroddy.

I suspect that there will be plenty of war crimes on both sides to sort out once this is all over.

 

[Mr Person]

They say the enemy of one's enemy is one's friend.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say that one can tolerate the enemy of one's enemy even if it is generally hostile to you for limited purposes, such as taking the invading Russians by the hand and escorting them to hell.

 

[Rexedgar]

They say the enemy of one's enemy is one's friend.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say that one can tolerate the enemy of one's enemy even if it is generally hostile to you for limited purposes, such as taking the invading Russians by the hand and escorting them to hell.

That quote was rolling around in my head.

There’s another one about “strange bedfellows.”

 

[Tigerace117]

....but it seems like Ukraine’s Nazi-based Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish.

Make no mistake, to brandish oneself as a “Nazi” day and age is an outrage, but isn’t it up to each individual nation to come to terms with its own far right extremist problem? Here in the United States, we have “Nazis” who burn synagogues and actually murder Jews—because they are Jews. The same happens in both Eastern and Western Europe. I have looked and looked, but I cannot find any indication of such incidents in Ukraine. Here is what an article from the Jerusalem Post had to say about the Azov battalion and Ukranian Nazism:

“Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly listed the "denazification of Ukraine" as one of his motives for invading the country.

While Ukraine, along with many other European countries, has far-right political parties and neo-Nazi organizations, the fact that since its turn to the West in 2014, there have been prominent Jews in the Ukrainian government and its current president is Jewish make this claim seem ludicrous.

However, since its incorporation into Ukraine's official armed forces it has moved away from neo-Nazism, and a Ukrainian Jewish group as early as 2016 did not oppose lifting the US ban.”

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-700396

So my point is this: yes, Ukraine has a Nazi problem, but there is all of ONE member of that associated party in the Ukrainian parliament, and the problem is UKRAINES to solve, same as with far right extremists in any other nation (like Russia).

I am asking you to discuss the topic, per se, rather than post variations of “Nazi sympathizer” in response. As it is at the present moment, the Azov battalion are “freedom fighters” trying to keep the military forces of the evil murderous thug Putin from taking over the country. When this is all over, then we can worry about their status, per se.

My point again: I am not trying to overlook the terrible toll that the German Nazis took on the Jewish population of Ukraine in WWII. If I remember correctly, between 200,000 and 300,000 Ukrainian Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis at that time. In addition, the military forces of the Germans and the Russians committed numerous atrocities on one another, and that seems to be the basis for the present dalliance with Nazism by far right Ukranian extremists, an intense hatred of Russians rather than a hatefulness towards Jews, per se.

The Azov Battalion are anything BUT “freedom fighters”. Furthermore, this idea that it’s okay to be a literal Nazi if you hate Russia enough is really, really disturbing.

 

[Tigerace117]

They say the enemy of one's enemy is one's friend.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say that one can tolerate the enemy of one's enemy even if it is generally hostile to you for limited purposes, such as taking the invading Russians by the hand and escorting them to hell.

I wonder if that’s what the Russians who helped the Taliban kill American soldiers told themselves?

Do you seriously not see the problem with that “logic”?

 

[watsup]

The Azov Battalion are anything BUT “freedom fighters”. Furthermore, this idea that it’s okay to be a literal Nazi if you hate Russia enough is really, really disturbing.

I fully expected the one trick pony to show up.

 

[Tigerace117]

I fully expected the one trick pony to show up.

You fully expected to be called out on your defense of Nazis? Then why’d you defend Nazis?

 

[Lutherf]

....but it seems like Ukraine’s Nazi-based Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish.

Make no mistake, to brandish oneself as a “Nazi” day and age is an outrage, but isn’t it up to each individual nation to come to terms with its own far right extremist problem? Here in the United States, we have “Nazis” who burn synagogues and actually murder Jews—because they are Jews. The same happens in both Eastern and Western Europe. I have looked and looked, but I cannot find any indication of such incidents in Ukraine. Here is what an article from the Jerusalem Post had to say about the Azov battalion and Ukranian Nazism:

“Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly listed the "denazification of Ukraine" as one of his motives for invading the country.

While Ukraine, along with many other European countries, has far-right political parties and neo-Nazi organizations, the fact that since its turn to the West in 2014, there have been prominent Jews in the Ukrainian government and its current president is Jewish make this claim seem ludicrous.

However, since its incorporation into Ukraine's official armed forces it has moved away from neo-Nazism, and a Ukrainian Jewish group as early as 2016 did not oppose lifting the US ban.”

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-700396

So my point is this: yes, Ukraine has a Nazi problem, but there is all of ONE member of that associated party in the Ukrainian parliament, and the problem is UKRAINES to solve, same as with far right extremists in any other nation (like Russia).

I am asking you to discuss the topic, per se, rather than post variations of “Nazi sympathizer” in response. As it is at the present moment, the Azov battalion are “freedom fighters” trying to keep the military forces of the evil murderous thug Putin from taking over the country. When this is all over, then we can worry about their status, per se.

My point again: I am not trying to overlook the terrible toll that the German Nazis took on the Jewish population of Ukraine in WWII. If I remember correctly, between 200,000 and 300,000 Ukrainian Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis at that time. In addition, the military forces of the Germans and the Russians committed numerous atrocities on one another, and that seems to be the basis for the present dalliance with Nazism by far right Ukranian extremists, an intense hatred of Russians rather than a hatefulness towards Jews, per se.

It should be noted that Germany occupied much of Ukraine in the early 1940s. Furthermore, the Azov Battalion has been anti-Russian since their formation. Fighting the separatists was pretty much the whole reason for their formation. Also, and this might be the REALLY important part, Putin has been known to make shit up for political purposes.

 

[watsup]

The Azov Battalion are anything BUT “freedom fighters”. Furthermore, this idea that it’s okay to be a literal Nazi if you hate Russia enough is really, really disturbing.

It is okay for the Azov battalion to fight against the invading military of the evil murderous thug, your great hero
Putin.

 

[ChickenTendies]

It is okay for the Azov battalion to fight against the invading military of the evil murderous thug, your great hero
Putin.

No tears will be shed when they get wiped

 

[Tigerace117]

It is okay for the Azov battalion to fight against the invading military of the evil murderous thug, your great hero
Putin.

You cheerleading for literal Nazis doesn’t change the fact that that’s exactly what they are.

 

[Juin]

....but it seems like Ukraine’s Nazi-based Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish.


So my point is this: yes, Ukraine has a Nazi problem, but there is all of ONE member of that associated party in the Ukrainian parliament, and the problem is UKRAINES to solve, same as with far right extremists in any other nation (like Russia).

I am asking you to discuss the topic, per se, rather than post variations of “Nazi sympathizer” in response. As it is at the present moment, the Azov battalion are “freedom fighters” trying to keep the military forces of the evil murderous thug Putin from taking over the country. When this is all over, then we can worry about their status, per se.

First and foremost, no one should get into trouble for expressing an opinion. There is absolutely no reason for you to get in trouble with anyone for expressing an opinion.

As to whether Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish. My impression is that the Azov battalion is probably by many octaves more anti Russian. For the simple reason that to them Russians and Russia are a clear and present danger. They are probably anti Jewish, in the same way Nazis tend to be anti Jewish; but in a rather abstract kind of way; I dont see them thinking they will be fighting Jews the next day the same way they gear up to battle Russians.

The other quesition that pops up is whether because the Azov battalion is Nazi, perforce Ukraine is Nazist. I am not sure the case is made. Pro Ukrainians have pointed out that far right parties did not fare in parliamentary elections. That seems to me a convincing case.

Last. Just because the Azov battalion is supported by fringe minorities, does that mean its influence on the government is minimal? Not necessarily. The Ukrainian Army may be more far right than the general population.

 

[watsup]

First and foremost, no one should get into trouble for expressing an opinion. There is absolutely no reason for you to get in trouble with anyone for expressing an opinion.

As to whether Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish. My impression is that the Azov battalion is probably by many octaves more anti Russian. For the simple reason that to them Russians and Russia are a clear and present danger. They are probably anti Jewish, in the same way Nazis tend to be anti Jewish; but in a rather abstract kind of way; I dont see them thinking they will be fighting Jews the next day the same way they gear up to battle Russians.

The other quesition that pops up is whether because the Azov battalion is Nazi, perforce Ukraine is Nazist. I am not sure the case is made. Pro Ukrainians have pointed out that far right parties did not fare in parliamentary elections. That seems to me a convincing case.

Last. Just because the Azov battalion is supported by fringe minorities, does that mean its influence on the government is minimal? Not necessarily. The Ukrainian Army may be more far right than the general population.

A thoughtful input.

 

[snakestretcher]

That quote was rolling around in my head.

There’s another one about “strange bedfellows.”

And another; 'keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer'.

 

[Rogue Valley]

So my point is this: yes, Ukraine has a Nazi problem, but there is all of ONE member of that associated party in the Ukrainian parliament, and the problem is UKRAINES to solve, same as with far right extremists in any other nation (like Russia).

There are few nations in the West that do not have a radical far-right.

Singling out Ukraine only echoes Kremlin propaganda.

Hell, the far-right here stormed the US Capitol on January 6th and attempted a violent coup.

PS. The Azov Battalion of 2014 no longer exists.

 

[Tigerace117]

There are few nations in the West that do not have a radical far-right.

Singling out Ukraine only echoes Kremlin propaganda.

Hell, the far-right here stormed the US Capitol on January 6th and attempted a violent coup.

PS. The Azov Battalion of 2014 no longer exists.

Yeah, they made it a “regiment”. That’s sooooo much better 🙄

Funnily enough, Western nations don’t praise their Nazis as heroes.

The January 6th thugs weren’t recruited into the US Army.

The false equivalences are as weak as ever.

 

[watsup]

Yeah, they made it a “regiment”. That’s sooooo much better 🙄

Funnily enough, Western nations don’t praise their Nazis as heroes.

The January 6th thugs weren’t recruited into the US Army.

The false equivalences are as weak as ever.

One trick pony.

 

[Tigerace117]

One trick pony.

Nazi apologist.

 

[bomberfox]

....but it seems like Ukraine’s Nazi-based Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish.

Make no mistake, to brandish oneself as a “Nazi” day and age is an outrage, but isn’t it up to each individual nation to come to terms with its own far right extremist problem? Here in the United States, we have “Nazis” who burn synagogues and actually murder Jews—because they are Jews. The same happens in both Eastern and Western Europe. I have looked and looked, but I cannot find any indication of such incidents in Ukraine. Here is what an article from the Jerusalem Post had to say about the Azov battalion and Ukranian Nazism:

“Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly listed the "denazification of Ukraine" as one of his motives for invading the country.

While Ukraine, along with many other European countries, has far-right political parties and neo-Nazi organizations, the fact that since its turn to the West in 2014, there have been prominent Jews in the Ukrainian government and its current president is Jewish make this claim seem ludicrous.

However, since its incorporation into Ukraine's official armed forces it has moved away from neo-Nazism, and a Ukrainian Jewish group as early as 2016 did not oppose lifting the US ban.”

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-700396

So my point is this: yes, Ukraine has a Nazi problem, but there is all of ONE member of that associated party in the Ukrainian parliament, and the problem is UKRAINES to solve, same as with far right extremists in any other nation (like Russia).

I am asking you to discuss the topic, per se, rather than post variations of “Nazi sympathizer” in response. As it is at the present moment, the Azov battalion are “freedom fighters” trying to keep the military forces of the evil murderous thug Putin from taking over the country. When this is all over, then we can worry about their status, per se.

My point again: I am not trying to overlook the terrible toll that the German Nazis took on the Jewish population of Ukraine in WWII. If I remember correctly, between 200,000 and 300,000 Ukrainian Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis at that time. In addition, the military forces of the Germans and the Russians committed numerous atrocities on one another, and that seems to be the basis for the present dalliance with Nazism by far right Ukranian extremists, an intense hatred of Russians rather than a hatefulness towards Jews, per se.

The fact they have nazi paramilitaries in their army is concerning though it could be due to incompetence in weeding out. In our case it was just outright refusal to until recently because of some idiot caution in pursuing expulsion on ideological grounds.

Some ideologies make it impossible for someone to do their job properly, fewer others make someone a danger in certain positions.

All in all dont let nazis into your army, they will sabotage you later, example, Atomwaffen division.

 

[bomberfox]

....but it seems like Ukraine’s Nazi-based Azov battalion is more anti-Russian than anti-Jewish.

Make no mistake, to brandish oneself as a “Nazi” day and age is an outrage, but isn’t it up to each individual nation to come to terms with its own far right extremist problem? Here in the United States, we have “Nazis” who burn synagogues and actually murder Jews—because they are Jews. The same happens in both Eastern and Western Europe. I have looked and looked, but I cannot find any indication of such incidents in Ukraine. Here is what an article from the Jerusalem Post had to say about the Azov battalion and Ukranian Nazism:

“Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly listed the "denazification of Ukraine" as one of his motives for invading the country.

While Ukraine, along with many other European countries, has far-right political parties and neo-Nazi organizations, the fact that since its turn to the West in 2014, there have been prominent Jews in the Ukrainian government and its current president is Jewish make this claim seem ludicrous.

However, since its incorporation into Ukraine's official armed forces it has moved away from neo-Nazism, and a Ukrainian Jewish group as early as 2016 did not oppose lifting the US ban.”

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-700396

So my point is this: yes, Ukraine has a Nazi problem, but there is all of ONE member of that associated party in the Ukrainian parliament, and the problem is UKRAINES to solve, same as with far right extremists in any other nation (like Russia).

I am asking you to discuss the topic, per se, rather than post variations of “Nazi sympathizer” in response. As it is at the present moment, the Azov battalion are “freedom fighters” trying to keep the military forces of the evil murderous thug Putin from taking over the country. When this is all over, then we can worry about their status, per se.

My point again: I am not trying to overlook the terrible toll that the German Nazis took on the Jewish population of Ukraine in WWII. If I remember correctly, between 200,000 and 300,000 Ukrainian Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis at that time. In addition, the military forces of the Germans and the Russians committed numerous atrocities on one another, and that seems to be the basis for the present dalliance with Nazism by far right Ukranian extremists, an intense hatred of Russians rather than a hatefulness towards Jews, per se.

once a nazi group always a nazi group. Its like saying the klan can be purged of klansmen and still remain the klan.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

@watsup

Except when members of the Azov Battalion are allegedly caught on video while shooting captured Russian POWs in the legs for torture and sick sport. Then it is a problem for everyone because a) it is a war crime and because b) it feeds into the Kremlin's propaganda machine as grist for more grinding war.

Cheers, be well and survive.
Evilroddy.

I seem to remember something about that being faked.
But I could be wrong