• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

I Knew It, IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!!!!

since most of them have an attention span of a cocker spaniel it baffles me how deep it has taken root...

Says the guy who forgot that conservatives supported Bush's vanity wars and claimed not putting boots on the ground in Iraq was unpatriotic and soft on terrorism.

God I love it how conservatives project!
 
Carville was right. Because of Bush and the Iraq War the entire world is suspicious of all US military actions now.
]

Exactly. Bush's lies and idiocy in his WMD disinformation campaign has totally poisoned the well of good will toward the US when it comes to this issue. Indeed, it's quite possible that if Assad did use the chemical weapons that he was counting on the world remembering Bush's duplicity.

Another example of how Bush's failed conservative foreign policy just keeps giving.
 
Yeah, I'm sorry, but I am among those that is caught amused at how many, regularly hawkish, commentators seem to be enlightened and restrained this time around.
Maybe some of them are seeing something you are missing, perhaps? Or maybe its just karma...
 
Says the guy who forgot that conservatives supported Bush's vanity wars and claimed not putting boots on the ground in Iraq was unpatriotic and soft on terrorism.

God I love it how conservatives project!

The people of whom you speak are neocons, a detestable bunch, closely related to the Unthinking Left.

I never supported the Iraq war.

I love how the Unthinking Left live up to their namesake.
 

I listened to Carville on Fox and don't think he's a pig. I almost always disagree with his POV, but he's sincere, smart, and has a pulse on the Democrat Party. I love listening to Carville. You can pretty much predict what his take is going to be; he's a Dem operative, after all. I mean, what do you think he's going to say?

But in my opinion, he's worth listening to. Don't be afraid to test your opinions against oppositional ones. Hardly ever, of course, but on rare occasion, you just might be mistaken. It happens. ;)

He said, "Of course, the Iraq thing is why people have so much trepidation about going into Syria. They said the last time we went over there, look what happened. I really think this has something to do with it."

Whatever your political affiliation, there really are a lot of Americans who are "war-weary." (What narcissistic gall for the President to say that he is.) I don't think Carville is necessarily wrong, and we as a nation need to be discussing all of this--our role, what we can learn from the recent past and what it means that our steadfast ally Britain is not going to engage.
 
Ummm…you just repeated pretty much what I just typed before you…
Maybe you need to read what you said .....the talking point spewed by the right when the dead bodies were coming home was ...1000...2000.....3000 dead GI's is not so bad ...we lost much more in blah-blah blah ..war. And my point was ...that was so comforting for the family's of the dead to hear.

And you bozo ..still don't get it.



AQ does its recruiting just fine on its own…and actually, with the Anbar Awakening, much more of the Arab/Muslim world "woke up", more saw Al Qaeda for what they really were and those in Anbar became allies with us, the US, against Al Qaeda.

So you really do not follow this too closely I see. Or maybe too nuanced for you?

The “but even today” just highlights my point…Obama, the foreign policy boob, has completely squandered and wasted what was achieved under Bush, just let it slip from our fingers, disgracing those that did sacrifice their all in our, America’s, behalf… I am sure that is comforting to all the families that lost loved ones, that have wounded that gave so much so we could have, now only could have, accomplished so much in the Middle East for once. That is just a pure unadulterated shame.

Then count in all those poor people in Iraq, abandoned when they were on the cusp, with US protection, of nurturing those two gifts we had tried to give them, democracy and a peace with which to attempt it.

...and the Iraqis would also greet Americans with flowers.....and the war would be over petty quick. Just some of the predictions coming from the right at the time we invaded Iraq.

You gave them gift ....by tearing up their country...slaughtering 100,000 and decimating the doctors teachers and engineer in the country? Please ...keep your democracy to yourself ....black people can't even walk freely in America today ...and you want to give others democracy??:roll:


Again, under Bush maybe, no longer, not under the boob.

This is why I believe Obama is doing a good job ...and oh ....not just me ....but the millions who voted for him twice!! We understand the weight left on his shoulder by Bush ...2 messed up wars and an economy in the tank with an inept congress. It's miracle we're not in a depression today. But we'll allow you guys to ...keep singing bush praise on the .....wonderful job he did.


Another again, Bush was able to muster support…nobody, not even our formerly strongest allies, trust us anymore…thank you boobama. What an embarrassing massive screwup we elected… everyone in the world knows it except him and your side here…what a joke, a crying shame….

The Brits and the rest of the world have cold feet on Syria ....because of Bush Iraq war ....very very clear to me!

Gaddafi had no WMDs to give up? I am sure that would be, if he were still alive, a confusing statement to him. :confused: And here is a guy, a formerly recalcitrant Arab leader that got the Bush message, that was finally coming along, working with us, and what message do we send to those willing to work with us, at least now under the boobama doctrine… go ahead and kill him, we will even help you defang him and make it easier… you think others will come along willingly now, now that they have seen the Mubarak and Gaddafi examples of how we just hang out to dry people who are more willing to work with us? Think Assad didn't see that example? What has he got to lose now?

Even if Obama never fire a shot ...your hero Assad is no longer a leader in Syria and outside of Syria. He has no credibility ....all he will do is live in some hole and surround himself with guards ....he cannot lead that country anymore.


Uh huh…Saddam was not killing his own folks? His folks were the ones killing the Iraqis after we went in also [ they were the insurgents, most of the killing was done between insurgents, A-Q and the other muslims they were fighting against…just like the violence now…Saddam was like Assad is today…how many has Assad been assumed to have killed…about 100,000….hmmm…makes a thinking person wonder….does it make you wonder?

When did Saddam gas his people ....in 1988!! A wee bit late invading the country in 2003 ...don't you think? I saw some Fox news tape at the time with some guy being burnt by Saddam ...at the time I thought ...that's it....one guy and we're sending 1000's of GI's in?? The fact is Saddam in 2003 Saddam wasn't killing his people ...there were no civil war and Al Quida was non existent in the country. Were a few people being punished ..maybe unfairly ...yes!! But we do the same thing then and now ...check out our prison system ...I bet there are some black people who could tell you the same thing!!

Iraq wasn't America ...but it was far from the hell-hole Syria is today in 2003. We went into Iraq ..turned it into a hell Hole ...and it remains a hell hole today!!





Nah, I knew you didn’t have the goods…you prove your own points or just let them bleed to death on the battlefield… weren’t worth fighting for cause we know it’s not true.

Uh yeah…uh huh.

OK ...Iraq is the place to send your daughter to learn to be a woman ...:roll:


I don’t watch any TV, so you can dispense with the left wing fox meme…you seem, from what you have given hint of here, to have no real sense of history, no facts, just leftist lib talking points…but trooper on, seems so so brilliant…ha ha ha…and still blaming good old Bush, not putting forth the accomplishments of Obama I see, as there are none, so beat up on the old scapegoat…what a joke party.

Nah ...people never watch Fox news ...you and all the others who spew the same talking points ...word-for-word ..are independent thinkers!!
 
After all that, I hope you feel better. What do you think about Carville's opinion?
 
I listened to Carville on Fox and don't think he's a pig. I almost always disagree with his POV, but he's sincere, smart, and has a pulse on the Democrat Party. I love listening to Carville. You can pretty much predict what his take is going to be; he's a Dem operative, after all. I mean, what do you think he's going to say?

But in my opinion, he's worth listening to. Don't be afraid to test your opinions against oppositional ones. Hardly ever, of course, but on rare occasion, you just might be mistaken. It happens. ;)

He said, "Of course, the Iraq thing is why people have so much trepidation about going into Syria. They said the last time we went over there, look what happened. I really think this has something to do with it."

Whatever your political affiliation, there really are a lot of Americans who are "war-weary." (What narcissistic gall for the President to say that he is.) I don't think Carville is necessarily wrong, and we as a nation need to be discussing all of this--our role, what we can learn from the recent past and what it means that our steadfast ally Britain is not going to engage.

I listen to what Carville has to say always.

Know thy enemy...

Of course people are itchy because of Iraq, that isn't news. What the problem is is that knowing Carville I know his style, and this is how a narrative begins. "Don't be so itchy, Bush is why you feel itchy, this is Obama, he'd never steer us wrong, Bush is to blame for your itchyness, but it's OK Obama is doing what is right, don't worry little one's, Obama is good, Bush is bad, it will be different with Obama in control..." and he'll sell that BS til the cows come home. He'll try to turn a completely justifiable position of opposition and say it is an irrational fear based on that no good, low down, dirty, rotten Bush who has caused all of the world's problems and Obama can't be stopped by your rational fear, he knows whats best for you even if you don't.

It's not because I dislike his politics that I call him swine, it's because I know is game.
 
People are concerned that there's no real reason for America to now enter the mess in Syria - they were far more in favor of intervention when the young people and reformers first started to protest over 2 years ago because they wanted to help them - now they don't know who they'd be helping or why. It's similar to American opinion when young people and reformers were protesting in Iran over four years ago, when it looked like they might succeed with help, and it's another instance where Obama ignored what was going on until it was too late.

People didn't think about Iraq when it came to intervention in Libya - the intervention in that case was led by France, in NATO, and it occurred early in the protests and uprisings when it could have an impact. Problem is, the NATO effort simply bombed Qhaddafi and his gang out of existence, but didn't serve the people there by helping them to build up a new form of government and institutions that had a chance of working and when that vacuum was left, chaos reigns.

People are concerned for two reasons, in my view - Number one, they see Obama and his administration as alone in this endeavor - say what you will about Iraq, but Bush had dozens of allies in that action who were willing to provide military and other supports. Who is lining up to assist Obama in Syria? Number two, they see Obama and his administration as not even slightly having a clue what they are doing or what they want to do - they want Assad gone, but this isn't about removing Assad - there will be no boots on the ground, but they have plans for boots on the ground - they want to degrade Assad's ability to act, but they don't want to assure it - they don't believe Assad or others in the region will retaliate, but Assad and others in the region have stated they will retaliate.

How can the American people possibly be in favor of following their Commander in Chief into battle when they have virtually zero confidence in their Commander in Chief's ability to lead or a sense of where he wants to go? Hell, he doesn't even have the character and integrity to admit what he's said after he's said it and stand by it. What level of idiocy is needed to follow that lead?
 
What's with all the capitals in the thread title? Is it like, a call to arms? Were you worried that it might not stand out among the other threads? Are you in pain? Are you afraid? I could call someone for you, if you wish.

Uh, it's 50% all cap in the title. Did you hear a phone? No, not especially. I'm not in pain but I'm dealing with one. No, I have my nightlight. Your shrink perhaps?
 
Uh, it's 50% all cap in the title. Did you hear a phone? No, not especially. I'm not in pain but I'm dealing with one. No, I have my nightlight. Your shrink perhaps?
The use of multiple exclamation marks speak to a certain suffering. I was just curious. Far be it from me to intrude on anyone's private grief. I guess I'll leave the four of you alone, then.
 
I think the actual point was that people are worried about making the same mistake with Syria that we did with Iraq. There's good reason for that.



After the conversion of Iran from secular dictatorship to theological dictatorship, the waste of blood and money in Iraq, the waste of blood and money in Afghanistan and the waste of blood and money all of the other Middle Eastern holes, we should have gotten the message by now.

There is not one middle eastern country worth even one more drop of American Blood. Not one more dollar. Not one more second of time.

They want to kill someone and it seems like if they are killing each other, that pretty much consumes their time. They are a stone age culture lacking any desire to be anything but a stone age culture.
 
You ginned up a war that:

-killed 6000+ GI's
-Left tens of thousands seriously wounded
-Slaughtered 100,000 innocent Iraqis
-Destroyed a country's infrastructure
-left a generation uneducated after 10 years of war
-Ushered in a regime that now make life for women in Iraq ...worst than it was under Saddam
-Squandered $Trillions of Tax payers money

.....and you think this is funny??

Do you people think anybody is going to just ...laugh off the destruction caused by that war?
Do you actually think you were just going to call yourselves ...TEA PURTY ...and people would forget who you people really are?

What else is on the minds of not just Americans ...but just about every other nation that was drawn in to the LIES ...to invade Iraq?

The Iraq war buddy will go down as the biggest American blunder in your lifetime ....by far...and it's fully owned by the right-wing....no matter who else voted for it.
You may get away saying it was an American war to foreigners .....but in America .....the Iraq war ...is a republican war...and stamped with the name Bush!!



Dandy. If you haven't heard about it, Iraq is not the issue. Syria is the issue today.
 
The last person that posted that video couldnt seem to answer the question...maybe you can take a swing at it. What happened to all those chemical weapons that all those elected democrats from 1992 to 2004 were talking about? And why was it necessary for the UN to pass SEVENTEEN resolutions attempting to force Saddam into providing an accounting for those chemical weapons that the UN inspectors inventoried and catalogued after the first gulf war?



We know Saddam had them.

We know they were not there when the invasion occurred.

We know that Syria has them now.

Dot>>>>>>Dot>>>>>>Dot.
 
He makes a valid, albeit partisan point. The management and popularity (or lack thereof) of the Iraq War will likely shape the average Americans viewpoint on intervening in the region for years to come. It could be argued that even earlier conflicts (Vietnam namely) still have the same effect.



And they should.
 
Yeah, I'm sorry, but I am among those that is caught amused at how many, regularly hawkish, commentators seem to be enlightened and restrained this time around.



I am a Viet Nam era old foggy right now.

The war drums beating after 9/11 regarding iraq were a big concern for me, but the experiment was to determine if we could plant a democracy in the region and have the branches and roots spread around.

Good hopes. Bad outcome. In retrospect, the outcome we have is the best one possible and this outcome is a raging failure.

We should have learned from that failed experiment in Iraq that the Middle East is not Kansas.

These people are splintered into tribal factions that fight each other at all times for all things and are raised in a religion that encourages death, violence and hate. They hate us and they hate each other.

There is not a justification for one more dollar, one more drop of American blood or one more second of our time to be wasted in this toilet. Just flush and then jiggle the handle so it doesn't annoy in the future.
 
Demokrats in an attempt to bring down a popular president did an about face on their votes to send troops to war in Iraq. A pure political move.

The Demokrats lied (except one lone wolf... Joe Lieberman) about being lied to. I recall Code Pink visiting Hillary Clinton and her defense wasn't just what the intel services provided members of Congress... no, no, no... she invoked her privileged knowledge during Felonious Bill's time at the helm.

So... if they wrongly want to invoke Iraq 2... they have only themselves to blame for their treasonous lying behavior.

Carville is full of it...

Obama's problem is of his own making. He made a Red Line, he has failed to show leadership, like Carville he is playing a blame game, and Obama is a proven liar on serious matters. Exhibit A: Benghazi.

zimmer-albums-conservitoons-picture67152874-evolution-ever-shrinking-obama.jpg



Isn't it a bit confusing that we know every detail of the gassing in Syria including the body count, the fraction comprised of children, the exact nerve agent used and the site and the perpetrators, but we still don't know anything about Benghazi and we actually had real time video of that event?

Another of the various tragedies of the Obama Administration is that I watch Putin counseling patience for all of the facts to come out and submitting a 100 page report to the UN showing the rebels did the gassing and I am trusting HIM more than Obama.

Obama has made me believe that a former KGB officer is more trustworthy than the President of the United States. This is astonishing.
 
Says the guy who forgot that conservatives supported Bush's vanity wars and claimed not putting boots on the ground in Iraq was unpatriotic and soft on terrorism.

God I love it how conservatives project!



You might have been in a coma for the last 5 years.

Obama is the president today and has been since January of 2009.

The issue of the the day is Obama's vanity war.

Do try to catch up.
 
Exactly. Bush's lies and idiocy in his WMD disinformation campaign has totally poisoned the well of good will toward the US when it comes to this issue. Indeed, it's quite possible that if Assad did use the chemical weapons that he was counting on the world remembering Bush's duplicity.

Another example of how Bush's failed conservative foreign policy just keeps giving.



Ummm...

Obama is in his second term.
 
I listened to Carville on Fox and don't think he's a pig. I almost always disagree with his POV, but he's sincere, smart, and has a pulse on the Democrat Party. I love listening to Carville. You can pretty much predict what his take is going to be; he's a Dem operative, after all. I mean, what do you think he's going to say?

But in my opinion, he's worth listening to. Don't be afraid to test your opinions against oppositional ones. Hardly ever, of course, but on rare occasion, you just might be mistaken. It happens. ;)

He said, "Of course, the Iraq thing is why people have so much trepidation about going into Syria. They said the last time we went over there, look what happened. I really think this has something to do with it."

Whatever your political affiliation, there really are a lot of Americans who are "war-weary." (What narcissistic gall for the President to say that he is.) I don't think Carville is necessarily wrong, and we as a nation need to be discussing all of this--our role, what we can learn from the recent past and what it means that our steadfast ally Britain is not going to engage.




For your reference, i have listed below the membership of the coalition that obama has assembled:

Albania.

Of the list, only Albania has expressed any reservations on their support of the USA Policy.
 
Isn't it a bit confusing that we know every detail of the gassing in Syria including the body count, the fraction comprised of children, the exact nerve agent used and the site and the perpetrators, but we still don't know anything about Benghazi and we actually had real time video of that event?

Another of the various tragedies of the Obama Administration is that I watch Putin counseling patience for all of the facts to come out and submitting a 100 page report to the UN showing the rebels did the gassing and I am trusting HIM more than Obama.

Obama has made me believe that a former KGB officer is more trustworthy than the President of the United States. This is astonishing.

Much of that can be blamed on our completely inept congress critters. They "fully investigated" the Benghazi incident without ever seeing the need to talk to anyone actually present during the attacks. ;)
 
Much of that can be blamed on our completely inept congress critters. They "fully investigated" the Benghazi incident without ever seeing the need to talk to anyone actually present during the attacks. ;)



The only names they have access to are the dead. The rest went into witness protection.

What I am surprised with is that none of them have made movie or book deals.

There must be some pretty heavy payments or threats in force right now.

Perhaps if we stopped the bribes for silence, we could resume the White House tours of the most open and transparent administration in the history of the republic.
 
I am a Viet Nam era old foggy right now.

The war drums beating after 9/11 regarding iraq were a big concern for me, but the experiment was to determine if we could plant a democracy in the region and have the branches and roots spread around.

Good hopes. Bad outcome. In retrospect, the outcome we have is the best one possible and this outcome is a raging failure.

We should have learned from that failed experiment in Iraq that the Middle East is not Kansas.

These people are splintered into tribal factions that fight each other at all times for all things and are raised in a religion that encourages death, violence and hate. They hate us and they hate each other.

There is not a justification for one more dollar, one more drop of American blood or one more second of our time to be wasted in this toilet. Just flush and then jiggle the handle so it doesn't annoy in the future.

Good morning, code 1211. :2wave:

Excellent post! :thumbs:
 
Exactly. Bush's lies and idiocy in his WMD disinformation campaign has totally poisoned the well of good will toward the US when it comes to this issue. Indeed, it's quite possible that if Assad did use the chemical weapons that he was counting on the world remembering Bush's duplicity.

Another example of how Bush's failed conservative foreign policy just keeps giving.

The only idiocy is your post and others like it. It is proof positive the depth of ignorance in this country fomented by The Left's propagandists for the lazy, gullible and intellectually bankrupt.

Repeatedly countering the inanity of posts like yours is both boring and a waste of time... BUT necessary because there are a few misguided leftists that really would like to know the truth, and base their lives upon it... even if it means going against the party they once believed (someone like me for example).

So, I will write a blog countering the Mt. Everest of Bull-oney the left foments regarding Iraq War 2.

It will be one-stop shopping so people don't have to waste their time dealing with the intellectually bankrupt, the morally bankrupt, the sloganeers, and the idiots of the world. People like Obama. They can simply cut and paste in 3 seconds and be done with the ocean of idiocy.

Obama has been president for almost 5-years... when will our boy wunder grow up?
 
Back
Top Bottom