I have A Question For The Republicans

[Ray410]

She says, "they just all seem like assholes mom.".

Kids grow up so fast these days.

 

[CanadaJohn]

t


if his last name was not 'bush', he might have a genuine shot
but dubya did in is his smarter brother's potential career in national politics

You were just touting Michelle Obama - if any last name will be political suicide in the future, it would be Obama. The two Presidents Bush, after leaving office, have only enhanced their legacy and their last name in politics. Jeb Bush will have no trouble in that regard. Will he be savaged in the primaries as not "pure" enough for some, maybe, but not enough to destroy his chances. And in a matchup with Clinton, the sane, rational, unemotional, competent leadership will top Ms. "what does it matter anyway".

 

[polgara]

Kids grow up so fast these days.

Your response wins the trophy today! That was priceless! :thumbs:

Greetings [again] Ray410. :2wave:

 

[Logicman]

There is a very simple answer to that.

well... look at this way...

The ACA was passed in 2009 by congress and senate regardless how controversial it was, It did pass the congress and was signed by the president...So it became the Law despite 43 attempts by the house to over turn it, it did stay the law. Even the Supreme court ruled that law is constitutional. Which means despite people's personal feeling on the matter it passed all the bars and now it is the law of the land.

I really don't see why the ACA is even legal. First of all, the only reason it passed was because of what I would call illegal bribes - the Cornhusker Kickback, the Louisiana Purchase, etc. How in the Sam Hill did those pass muster without someone going to jail?

Second, the Supreme Court only approved it because contributions were considered a "tax." And according to the Constitution, ALL tax bills have to originate in the House. ACA originated in the Senate.

I also just heard something very disturbing on the news - that even under the cheapest ACA plan ('Bronze' coverage), the deductible will be in the $4K to $5K range before benefits can kick in. Which poor families do you know can afford that? And that's the (quote) AFFORDABLE CARE ACT?

 

[justabubba]

I really don't see why the ACA is even legal. First of all, the only reason it passed was because of what I would call illegal bribes - the Cornhusker Kickback, the Louisiana Purchase, etc. How in the Sam Hill did those pass muster without someone going to jail?

Second, the Supreme Court only passed it because contributions were considered a "tax." And according to the Constitution, ALL tax bills have to originate in the House. ACA originated in the Senate.

I also just heard something very disturbing on the news - that even under the cheapest ACA plan ('Bronze' coverage), the deductible will be in the $4K to $5K range before benefits can kick in. Which poor families do you know can afford that? And that's the (quote) AFFORDABLE CARE ACT?

did you sleep thru the supreme court determination about the legality of Obamacare?

 

[opendebate]

Kids grow up so fast these days.

Not sure what you mean by that

 

[Logicman]

did you sleep thru the supreme court determination about the legality of Obamacare?

Have you ever read the Constitution?

Do tax bills have to originate in the House, or not? And even though Reid 'jerry rigged' a former House bill, stripping out its provisions and resurrecting it as a whole new bill, that shouldn't have been allowed to pass muster.

 

[Logicman]

Not sure what you mean by that

I took it to mean those in power are juveniles.

 

[justabubba]

Have you ever read the Constitution?

Do tax bills have to originate in the House, or not? And even though Reid 'jury-rigged' a former House bill, stripping out its provisions and resurrecting it as a whole new bill, that shouldn't have been allowed to pass muster.

let's see
i have you posting one opinion
and the supreme court issuing another, which differs from yours
which opinion should be found more reliable?
share your legal credentials with us

 

[opendebate]

Your response wins the trophy today! That was priceless! :thumbs:

Greetings [again] Ray410. :2wave:

If you are in any way insulting my daughter I recommend you watch yourself

 

[opendebate]

Kids grow up so fast these days.

I am giving you an opportunity to explain yourself. Are you gonna take it?

 

[Logicman]

let's see
i have you posting one opinion
and the supreme court issuing another, which differs from yours
which opinion should be found more reliable?
share your legal credentials with us

See my prior post. As for the ACA, it was Obama's, Reid's, and Pelosi's baby, so I think anyone with any smarts knows that bill has to be totally screwed up. Even the Democratic architect of the bill called it a train wreck.

Also, there's still ACA-related lawsuit challenges on their way up to SCOTUS, so the bill isn't out of the woods yet.

 

[opendebate]

Kids grow up so fast these days.

Your response wins the trophy today! That was priceless! :thumbs:

Greetings [again] Ray410. :2wave:

So I will take it to mean you chose to insult a 19yr old child you do not know. Way to prove her point kids.

 

[Campbell]

That just doesn't fit within history....sorry. Where do you think that the individual mandate came from? Why do you believe that the individual mandate was put into the ACA as a substitute for the Public Option? Do you have any recollection of what took place while the ACA was being debated? Do you remember the numerous versions in order to try to bring Republicans and bluedogs to the table? Of course you don't.....

LOL!!! Love your signature line. It doesn't get much better than that. The Republican mantra is based upon a theory..."I've Inheirited Mine, Now By God You Get Yours"

#2 is "Pull Yourself Up By Your Bootstraps Even If You Have No Legs!"

 

[disneydude]

Origination is irrelevant. How many GOP members were in conference with Democrats creating the bill? You don't answer.

How many GOP aye votes in the House and Senate for passage of ACA? You won't answer.

There were no aye votes from the GOP. And it became abundantly clear to everyone involved that nothing that Obama did was going to get a single GOP vote because they had already decided that they were going to be the Party of NO...and oppose everything. At that point, what is the purpose of trying to compromise and negotiate? Seriously.....if the other side has flat out said that they are going to oppose eveything because their number one goal is to make you a one-term President and ensure that you fail at everything you try to do...would you continue to try to negotiate? It would be an exercise in futility...and is exactly why the Republican party has become a complete and utter joke under the teabaggers control.

 

[disneydude]

Origination is irrelevant. How many GOP members were in conference with Democrats creating the bill? You don't answer.

How many GOP aye votes in the House and Senate for passage of ACA? You won't answer.

BTW....origination is not irrelevant when you are making the absurd argument that Obama made no effort to try to compromise with the GOP. You are just trying to avoid the question because you know the answer and the way the ACA developed run counter to the arguments that you are flailing to make.

 

[Ockham]

There were no aye votes from the GOP.

Because they were excluded from the bill and the process. Zero conferences with the GOP about the healthcare bill. Let's turn this around: A majority GOP congress and a few key conservative SCOTUS approvals to the bench overturn Roe v. Wade, cut Democrats out of the process, no conferences, no negotiation and Cruz gets handed the job of legislating it. Many challenge it and it goes to the SCOTUS who uphold it and now the removal requires funding and Democrats 2 years later, hold up the funding since they now have the majority in the House but not the Senate.

Still hold to the "complete and utter joke" when it's the lefty-loon and clown patrol holding up the funding on such an large and encompassing law? I'd suggest Democrats would throw themselves in front of busses rather than fund such a thing. Granted, it's not a very good analogy but it makes a the point well enough.

 

[Ockham]

BTW....origination is not irrelevant when you are making the absurd argument that Obama made no effort to try to compromise with the GOP. You are just trying to avoid the question because you know the answer and the way the ACA developed run counter to the arguments that you are flailing to make.

It's fact he doesn't talk to his own party, nevermind about the GOP. If you want me to prove it to you I'll do that but don't bs me. Not sure if you're statements are meant to do but they're factually impotent.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

It's fact he doesn't talk to his own party, nevermind about the GOP. If you want me to prove it to you I'll do that but don't bs me. Not sure if you're statements are meant to do but they're factually impotent.

some democrats would argue that they have compromised by locking in the sequester cuts and not demanding their repeal. the republicans claim they are for reducing government spending, so why is the democrats concession on the sequester a victory for the GOP?

 

[Bob N]

It seems to me the democrats idea of compromise is to give in to their plans. I bet you cant name the last time compromise lead to a conservative leaning solution?

About as twice as many times the conservatives have done the same, thus 2x0= (well you know, right?)

 

[Ockham]

some democrats would argue that they have compromised by locking in the sequester cuts and not demanding their repeal. the republicans claim they are for reducing government spending, so why is the democrats concession on the sequester a victory for the GOP?

No idea, im not arguing for democrats sequester or why they'd be viewed as a victory by the GOP.

However, here's some information I found between 2009 and 2010.

Reconciliation used in 2010
Calls for a delay in passage rejected
Health Care Reform, Obama to Democrats: 'Reconciliation' Rules an Option to Pass Bill - ABC News

The new White House strategy comes on the heels of statements by the chief Republican negotiators — Sens. Chuck Grassley (Iowa) and Mike Enzi (Wyo.) — in which they have appeared pessimistic about the chances for a bipartisan agreement.
Enzi and Grassley on Wednesday disputed that they are backing away from the negotiations. An Enzi spokeswoman told the AP: “Repeating that you don’t agree with plans put together solely by one side doesn’t mean you aren’t willing to work together on a different plan. He is. He has been doing that.”

Obama to Address Congress; Democrats Expect Details on Health Care : Roll Call News

Obama did meet once with Republicans during this time which was describe this way:

Murkowski said the White House is sending a "mixed message" by coupling its Republican outreach with thinly veiled threats to use strong-arm tactics to ram home a health care bill if Republicans insist on too many changes.

Obama Reaches Out to Republicans on Health Care, but Bipartisan Bill Looking Unlikely | Fox News

That tactic has been Obama's calling card - making a fine speech about bipartisanship one day, and that night, calling Republicans every dirty name he can think of and sending his representatives to do the same on sympathetic cable opinion shows.

Republicans offer 3 alternatives - all rejected and ignored.
Republicans Have Offered Three Alternative Health Care Reform Bills | CNS News


Of the 4 suggestions that Republicans made that Obama claimed he would consider in the politico article - how many of these 4 made it into the ACA? One - Enzi's suggestion. Barrasso's suggestion for HSA expansion was actually taxed higher and not expanded. (Sec 9004 (a))

1. Coburn: Random undercover investigations of healthcare providers that receive reimbursements to look for fraud. (not in the ACA)

2. Enzi: Fund states for demonstrations of alternatives in resolving medical malpractice disputes, in cluding health courts. (Sec. 10607, c(3))

3. Grassley: Medicaid rembursements are inadequate, consider increasing doctor reimbursements. (Not in the ACA)

4. Barrasso: Expanding HSA's to be used with high-deductable health plans (Not in the ACA)

http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf
President Obama 'open' to Republican ideas on health care reform - Chris Frates and Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com

 

[Unitedwestand13]

No idea, im not arguing for democrats sequester or why they'd be viewed as a victory by the GOP.

However, here's some information I found between 2009 and 2010.

Reconciliation used in 2010
Calls for a delay in passage rejected
Health Care Reform, Obama to Democrats: 'Reconciliation' Rules an Option to Pass Bill - ABC News


Obama to Address Congress; Democrats Expect Details on Health Care : Roll Call News

Obama did meet once with Republicans during this time which was describe this way:



Obama Reaches Out to Republicans on Health Care, but Bipartisan Bill Looking Unlikely | Fox News

That tactic has been Obama's calling card - making a fine speech about bipartisanship one day, and that night, calling Republicans every dirty name he can think of and sending his representatives to do the same on sympathetic cable opinion shows.

Republicans offer 3 alternatives - all rejected and ignored.
Republicans Have Offered Three Alternative Health Care Reform Bills | CNS News


Of the 4 suggestions that Republicans made that Obama claimed he would consider in the politico article - how many of these 4 made it into the ACA? One - Enzi's suggestion. Barrasso's suggestion for HSA expansion was actually taxed higher and not expanded. (Sec 9004 (a))

1. Coburn: Random undercover investigations of healthcare providers that receive reimbursements to look for fraud. (not in the ACA)

2. Enzi: Fund states for demonstrations of alternatives in resolving medical malpractice disputes, in cluding health courts. (Sec. 10607, c(3))

3. Grassley: Medicaid rembursements are inadequate, consider increasing doctor reimbursements. (Not in the ACA)

4. Barrasso: Expanding HSA's to be used with high-deductable health plans (Not in the ACA)

http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf
President Obama 'open' to Republican ideas on health care reform - Chris Frates and Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com

all four of those suggestions do not tackle the major issue of people lacking insurance.

getting rid of fraud is great, but how does that garentee coverage for a family that has a child who could be denied because of a preexisting condition?

The issue is how to reduce health care costs: go after fraud, increase the availability of health insurance, or add more people into the system?

 

[Ockham]

all four of those suggestions do not tackle the major issue of people lacking insurance.

All the more reason those in charge or constructing the bill (at the time) could have show some bi-partisan good will and put them in. But they didn't...

getting rid of fraud is great, but how does that garentee coverage for a family that has a child who could be denied because of a preexisting condition?

One has nothing to do with the other. Fraud is fraud, pre-existing conditions is something else.

The issue is how to reduce health care costs: go after fraud, increase the availability of health insurance, or add more people into the system?

The issue of reducing health care costs was a canard from the start - covering 30 million more people (again, that was being circulated at the time) and reducing costs per person was a joke as no one ever explained that math.

 

[disneydude]

Because they were excluded from the bill and the process. Zero conferences with the GOP about the healthcare bill. Let's turn this around: A majority GOP congress and a few key conservative SCOTUS approvals to the bench overturn Roe v. Wade, cut Democrats out of the process, no conferences, no negotiation and Cruz gets handed the job of legislating it. Many challenge it and it goes to the SCOTUS who uphold it and now the removal requires funding and Democrats 2 years later, hold up the funding since they now have the majority in the House but not the Senate.

Still hold to the "complete and utter joke" when it's the lefty-loon and clown patrol holding up the funding on such an large and encompassing law? I'd suggest Democrats would throw themselves in front of busses rather than fund such a thing. Granted, it's not a very good analogy but it makes a the point well enough.

\\
Absolutely, you wouldn't see the democrats threatening to shut down the government.

 

[disneydude]

It's fact he doesn't talk to his own party, nevermind about the GOP. If you want me to prove it to you I'll do that but don't bs me. Not sure if you're statements are meant to do but they're factually impotent.

Completely sidesteps and fails to address the issue.