I feel I should clear a few things up...

[Hoplite]

My discerning powers of reading hate mail (very mature, by the way) has told me that maybe I should publically clarify what I stated in previous threads on abortion and clarify my case rather than typing it up half a dozen different times.

Yes I consider MOST of the pro-life movement to be armchair and/or not to be taken seriously. Note, this is MOST, I have met a goodly number of pro-life individuals whom I would not put in this category; sincere and honest individuals who had a plan and were acting because of their beliefs and I have great respect for that regardless of my disagreement.

That said, I find many members of the pro-life movement to be armchair because being pro-life doesnt really take any WORK. You dont have to watch what you eat, you dont have to change your routine, you dont have to go picket unless you want to, there are no complex ideas to work out, there's no science or math to figure out; all the moral smugness with none of the work. It's easy to say "I'm pro-life" if being pro-life means you dont really have to DO anything and many individuals in the pro-life community DONT do anything beyond a bumpersticker.

I dont take the movement seriously because, to me, it seems a similar situation to a crowd of people standing around yelling because someone is doing something that could start a huge fire. No one suggests anything, no one presents a plan, no one does anything to prevent it, they just stand around and rabble about it. Many people in the pro-life movement have NO plans, it's just "Stop killin' babies!" and that's about as far as they get. They dont have any plans for reduction of demand, they dont consider any other possible externalities, just "Stop killin' babies!" Furthermore, many refuse to support plans that will help reduce the demand for abortions such as comprehensive sex ed and wider availability of effective contraceptives for young people or wider access to neonatal care for pregnant women or less of a social stigmatization for young or single pregnant women or they support "abstinence only" education programs for young people.

Yes, I've seen the adoption option before, and frankly it sucks. There are 130,000 children (Yes, lower than the numbers I've given before) currently in the US foster care system waiting for adoption. I dont see how that's a better option.

Additionally, on this very board as well as in life, I've encountered numerous examples of how "pro-life" is often "pro-SOME life". Things like "Women might die after poor medical treatment from a back-alley abortion? **** 'em, they sought an abortion." What really floored me was what was going around when Dr. Tiller was murdered. Language in general seems to be part of many of the pro-life crowd's issue, a constant need to re-frame the debate as "killing babies" and similarly charged language. The need for shock value seems to be superfluous; if your cause is that noble and you aren't actively being drowned out by anyone, you shouldn't need to do that. You shouldn't need to accost people outside of Planned Parenthood with pictures of dead fetuses.

It's a free country. Put whatever you want on the sign but dont expect me to respect your position for it.

For my part, I am pro-choice because after looking at what happens in countries where abortion is outlawed, I think that's the better overall choice. I would like to work to reduce the demand for abortions rather than just ban the whole thing and call it a day.

I was actually against abortions for a while until I did a project in high school. I was researching women's rights in the Middle East and in many Middle Eastern countries (at the time) it was illegal to have an abortion PERIOD. I stumbled across pictures of a raid the police had done of an illegal abortion clinic (in Saudi Arabia, IIRC) and the pictures were...not fun. I will never forget those pictures if I live a thousand years and that's when I decided that perhaps it's better to allow abortions but do what you can to reduce the demand without threatening or scaring people.

 

[Gardener]

Between one side yelling about killing babies and the other side going bat sh!t crazy with their stupid "parasite" references, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of intelligent conversation, period.

 

[MaggieD]

That said, I find many members of the pro-life movement to be armchair because being pro-life doesnt really take any WORK. You dont have to watch what you eat, you dont have to change your routine, you dont have to go picket unless you want to, there are no complex ideas to work out, there's no science or math to figure out; all the moral smugness with none of the work. It's easy to say "I'm pro-life" if being pro-life means you dont really have to DO anything and many individuals in the pro-life community DONT do anything beyond a bumpersticker.

Every prolife woman is prepared to carry their baby to term. Whether or not they can afford it. Whether or not it's inconvenient. Whether or not the dad's in the picture. Whether or not they have to give up school. Whether or not they're forced onto the welfare roll. If that ain't work, I wanna know what YOU do for a living. ;-)

I dont take the movement seriously because, to me, it seems a similar situation to a crowd of people standing around yelling because someone is doing something that could start a huge fire. No one suggests anything, no one presents a plan, no one does anything to prevent it, they just stand around and rabble about it. Many people in the pro-life movement have NO plans, it's just "Stop killin' babies!" and that's about as far as they get. They dont have any plans for reduction of demand, they dont consider any other possible externalities, just "Stop killin' babies!" Furthermore, many refuse to support plans that will help reduce the demand for abortions such as comprehensive sex ed and wider availability of effective contraceptives for young people or wider access to neonatal care for pregnant women or less of a social stigmatization for young or single pregnant women or they support "abstinence only" education programs for young people.

One could make the same argument for those opposed to the death penalty. With all sensitive issues, one is either fer it 'r aginst it.

There's more I could comment on about your OP, but I suspect it'll be around for a while, so I'll hitcha' later.

 

[OKgrannie]

Every prolife woman is prepared to carry their baby to term. Whether or not they can afford it. Whether or not it's inconvenient. Whether or not the dad's in the picture. Whether or not they have to give up school. Whether or not they're forced onto the welfare roll. If that ain't work, I wanna know what YOU do for a living. ;-)

Actually, a good many of them are not prepared at all for that. Talkin' the talk doesn't mean they're gonna walk the walk.

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" - When the Anti-Choice Choose

Abortion is a highly personal decision that many women are sure they'll never have to think about until they're suddenly faced with an unexpected pregnancy. But this can happen to anyone, including women who are strongly anti-choice. So what does an anti-choice woman do when she experiences an unwanted pregnancy herself? Often, she will grin and bear it, so to speak, but frequently, she opts for the solution she would deny to other women -- abortion. ......

"We have anti-choice women in for abortions all the time. Many of them are just naive and ignorant until they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Many of them are not malicious. They just haven't given it the proper amount of thought until it completely affects them. They can be judgmental about their friends, family, and other women. Then suddenly they become pregnant. Suddenly they see the truth. That it should only be their own choice. Unfortunately, many also think that somehow they are different than everyone else and they deserve to have an abortion, while no one else does." (Physician, Washington State)

Although few studies have been made of this phenomenon, a study done in 1981 (1) found that 24% of women who had abortions considered the procedure morally wrong, and 7% of women who'd had abortions disagreed with the statement, "Any woman who wants an abortion should be permitted to obtain it legally."