• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

I drove my first electric car yesterday

Smeagol

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,147
Reaction score
1,694
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
A buddy of mine recently got his own Nissan Leaf and let me drive it. Interestingly, this is not the guy you would expect to get a plug-in. He's a strong partisan republican. He generally opposes most social and political ideas not embraced by the right but is wiling to listen and engage in respectful conversations without getting emotional about his side's defense like most people I know. Nevertheless, I was surprised.

He says he was the perfect candidate for it. He lives within 5 miles of work and his wife has an SUV that they can use for longer road trips or can swap with her on days he needs to drive more that 100 miles, which is rare but if such a situation occurs he's got a back up plan. Instead of buying it, he's leasing. The lease payment is $250 a month, upgraded from the $199 a month plan. He has to stay under 15,000 miles a year, which being so close to work isn't a problem. He traded in another car, which he was dumping $300 a month worth of gas into. The Leaf has a really good power consumption calculator in the dash so its easy to figure out how much its costing to recharge. He says he's spending an additional $7 a month in electricity. Total costs: $257 a month. However for him, its a net wash since he no longer is spending $300 in gas and is essentially getting paid $43 a month to drive a new car. After about a couple of weeks the question hit him, why doesn't everybody drive one of these?

He let me take it for a spin, I started it up and it was dead quiet except for a few beeps and the fans from the air conditioning. Inside was roomier than my Toyota Matrix. All kinds of bells and whistles like syncing your smart phone to the stereo and he can use the car's app to turn on the air conditioning before he gets to his car if he knows he's on the way to the car. It drives smoothly but I thought the breaks were slightly sticky he says is due to breaking regeneration as the car's tires double as electric generators that help recharge the battery when coasting and breaking. No oil changes or any other routine maintenance except wiper blades, tires and eventually brakes. Since its a newer technology they aren't sure about how the battery will hold out long term; 10 years + but he'll be out of his lease by then.
 
Last edited:

Lord of Planar

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
45,032
Reaction score
13,193
Location
Portlandia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Well, that had to be quite the gas guzzler to burn $300/month in gas, for under 15K miles annual.

I think the math might be just a smidgen off...

Why do you think republicans are against such things? I would love it if such technologies were better, and I could see myself buying one when they get better. However, I still need a sports car too... Note, I'm not republican, but rather conservative on most issue.

Do partisan democrats have better ecology practices over partisan republicans just because...

Let's see. Al Gore... Uses what? 25 times more the electricity than the average middle class?

Let's see. George bush... Solar cells, grey water, etc...

Can we dispense with the partisan stereotypes?
 

Smeagol

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,147
Reaction score
1,694
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well, that had to be quite the gas guzzler to burn $300/month in gas, for under 15K miles annual.

I think the math might be just a smidgen off...

Why do you think republicans are against such things? I would love it if such technologies were better, and I could see myself buying one when they get better. However, I still need a sports car too... Note, I'm not republican, but rather conservative on most issue.

Do partisan democrats have better ecology practices over partisan republicans just because...

Let's see. Al Gore... Uses what? 25 times more the electricity than the average middle class?

Let's see. George bush... Solar cells, grey water, etc...

Can we dispense with the partisan stereotypes?


No offense intended, its just been my experience that my republican friends generally oppose anything other than the traditional internal combustion engine vehicle, not just on ecological reason but to me it seems like they feel a duty to oppose them for anything they can some up with. My democrat friends tend to be more enthusiastic about seeing other options. In fact, a happened to have to have run into a mutual friend as I leaving and commented on Daniel's cool new car. This friend, a conservative immediately started being negative about it saying it wasn't safe for families because in a crash it was too lightweight to offer adequate protection. Usually people are happy when their friends get new stuff but this guy seemed upset. Another republican friend sees alternatives as a waste of time and money of which government has no business supporting. When I brought up the government's investment in NASA in the 1960s and 70s, she said that was different because that was linked to national security. When I asked why she didn't see 9/11 as a national security matter, she threw up her hands in disgust and shortly thereafter had me removed from a work related conservative PR project. Another Republican friend said he could not support battery operated cars for himself or anybody else because when he presses the gas pedal, he wants power and without test driving one assumed electrics lacked power. Plus he says he's concerned that electic car batteries would end up being buried in the ground I guess, after their useful time and contaminate the water table. I think a part of it is conservative by definition means opposition to change. I only mention my friend like me is a republican because I thought it was noteworthy that someone who gotten an electric and was thrilled with it wasn't a bleeding heart liberal but someone who has embraced the right. Again, no offense was intended and to be honest it was really more of an attempt by me to show once they tried it, electic cars would likely be something everyone could embrace regardless of political leaning.

I agree, big name liberals are notorious for screaming global warming while burning more fossil fuel than anybody. It should be noted however, for me its not so much about environment but national security seeing an urgency to stop our negative cash flow into he hands of dictators and terrorists.
 
Last edited:

sawyerloggingon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
14,699
Reaction score
5,703
Location
Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
No offense intended, its just been my experience that my republican friends generally oppose anything other than the traditional internal combustion engine vehicle, not just on ecological reason but to me it seems like they feel a duty to oppose them for anything they can some up with. My democrat friends tend to be more enthusiastic about seeing other options. In fact, a happened to have to have run into a mutual friend as I leaving and commented on Daniel's cool new car. This friend, a conservative immediately started being negative about it saying it wasn't safe for families because in a crash it was too lightweight to offer adequate protection. Usually people are happy when their friends get new stuff but this guy seemed upset. Another republican friend sees alternatives as a waste of time and money of which government has no business supporting. When I brought up the government's investment in NASA in the 1960s and 70s, she said that was different because that was linked to national security. When I asked why she didn't see 9/11 as a national security matter, she threw up her hands in disgust and shortly thereafter had me removed from a work related conservative PR project. Another Republican friend said he could not support battery operated cars for himself or anybody else because when he presses the gas pedal, he wants power and without test driving one assumed electrics lacked power. Plus he says he's concerned that electic car batteries would end up being buried in the ground I guess, after their useful time and contaminate the water table. I think a part of it is conservative by definition means opposition to change. I only mention my friend like me is a republican because I thought it was noteworthy that someone who gotten an electric and was thrilled with it wasn't a bleeding heart liberal but someone who has embraced the right. Again, no offense was intended and to be honest it was really more of an attempt by me to show once they tried it, electic cars would likely be something everyone could embrace regardless of political leaning.

Your personal bias is showing. Just because someone does not see the viability of an elec car over gas does not mean they are against it. Conservatives tend to be more pragmatic bottom line types that are not as likely to jump on the latest fad to come along and that is what many cons see with elec cars.
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
No offense intended, its just been my experience that my republican friends generally oppose anything other than the traditional internal combustion engine vehicle, not just on ecological reason but to me it seems like they feel a duty to oppose them for anything they can some up with.

Your Republican friends are smart enough to know that the electric car is not ready for prime time yet.

Your Democratic friends can't resist anything that's subsidized.
 

X Factor

Anti-Socialist
Dungeon Master
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
59,183
Reaction score
29,747
Location
El Paso Strong
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
No offense intended, its just been my experience that my republican friends generally oppose anything other than the traditional internal combustion engine vehicle, not just on ecological reason but to me it seems like they feel a duty to oppose them for anything they can some up with. My democrat friends tend to be more enthusiastic about seeing other options. In fact, a happened to have to have run into a mutual friend as I leaving and commented on Daniel's cool new car. This friend, a conservative immediately started being negative about it saying it wasn't safe for families because in a crash it was too lightweight to offer adequate protection. Usually people are happy when their friends get new stuff but this guy seemed upset. Another republican friend sees alternatives as a waste of time and money of which government has no business supporting. When I brought up the government's investment in NASA in the 1960s and 70s, she said that was different because that was linked to national security. When I asked why she didn't see 9/11 as a national security matter, she threw up her hands in disgust and shortly thereafter had me removed from a work related conservative PR project. Another Republican friend said he could not support battery operated cars for himself or anybody else because when he presses the gas pedal, he wants power and without test driving one assumed electrics lacked power. Plus he says he's concerned that electic car batteries would end up being buried in the ground I guess, after their useful time and contaminate the water table. I think a part of it is conservative by definition means opposition to change. I only mention my friend like me is a republican because I thought it was noteworthy that someone who gotten an electric and was thrilled with it wasn't a bleeding heart liberal but someone who has embraced the right. Again, no offense was intended and to be honest it was really more of an attempt by me to show once they tried it, electic cars would likely be something everyone could embrace regardless of political leaning.

I agree, big name liberals are notorious for screaming global warming while burning more fossil fuel than anybody. It should be noted however, for me its not so much about environment but national security seeing an urgency to stop our negative cash flow into he hands of dictators and terrorists.

I have no problem with electric (or whatever) cars if that's what the consumer chooses. If electric cars eventually take over the auto industry because of free-market demand, again, I have no problem with that. What I do object to is the government coercing, cajoling or mandating me into one of these cars.
 
Last edited:

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
29,999
Reaction score
10,106
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Electric cars may have a place, but to truly be viable, the total cost of operations
will have to be lower than IC or Hybrid vehicles.
The product itself will have to be slightly better, to offset the distrust of something new.
For a product to emerge out of a niche market, it must show a measurable benefit
to those not in the niche market.
 

Smeagol

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,147
Reaction score
1,694
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Your Republican friends are smart enough to know that the electric car is not ready for prime time yet.

Your Democratic friends can't resist anything that's subsidized.

I see the first Gulf War and its subsequent no fly zone enforcement as a massive subsidy of the oil industry by taxpayer at levels that blow away the $7500 electric car tax credit.

PS. Stationing US troops in the home country of Mecca was the primary motivator of the 9/11 attacks by people who had been educated in the Saudi public school madrasahs, in the most radical form of Islam. I think the madrasahs were a ploy by the Saudi Royal Family to keep their population focused on the spiritual and not care about their lavish lifestyles while the people lived in poverty never imagining it would trigger the war on terror all funded by American gasoline purchases.
 
Last edited:

X Factor

Anti-Socialist
Dungeon Master
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
59,183
Reaction score
29,747
Location
El Paso Strong
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Your Republican friends are smart enough to know that the electric car is not ready for prime time yet.

Your Democratic friends can't resist anything that's subsidized.

It was a little funny wasn't it? "I mean no offense but in my experience Republicans are just horrible, wretched, people and here are some examples."

But no, we shouldn't get defensive. Lol.
 
Last edited:

TheNextEra

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
16,575
Reaction score
6,767
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Electric cars may have a place, but to truly be viable, the total cost of operations
will have to be lower than IC or Hybrid vehicles.
The product itself will have to be slightly better, to offset the distrust of something new.
For a product to emerge out of a niche market, it must show a measurable benefit
to those not in the niche market.

It's like any product really. It's expensive to make at first, but through time with more and more companies making it will become cheaper. Here's the kicker that most pro-electric people don't like though, it has to be driven by economics. The government can only do so much and it already has. It's time for the government to back off.

We came really close to a break through I think with gas going almost $5.00 a gallon in that people were starting to gain more and more interest. I believe the Saudis and other oil producers saw this as well and worked to make the price go down.
 

TheNextEra

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
16,575
Reaction score
6,767
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
I have no problem with electric (or whatever) cars if that's what the consumer chooses. If electric cars eventually take over the auto industry because of free-market demand, again, I have no problem with that. What I do object to is the government coercing, cajoling or mandating me into one of these cars.

I agree and while I think government sometimes helping in these things (as they did the internet) is good, it needs to also know (like parents) when to back off and let the idea succeed or fail on its own.

There will come a time that electric vehicles or alternative transportation methods will need to be implemented, but that needs to be based on the people and what they want versus the government forcing it on people.
 

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
A buddy of mine recently got his own Nissan Leaf and let me drive it. Interestingly, this is not the guy you would expect to get a plug-in. He's a strong partisan republican. He generally opposes most social and political ideas not embraced by the right but is wiling to listen and engage in respectful conversations without getting emotional about his side's defense like most people I know. Nevertheless, I was surprised.

He says he was the perfect candidate for it. He lives within 5 miles of work and his wife has an SUV that they can use for longer road trips or can swap with her on days he needs to drive more that 100 miles, which is rare but if such a situation occurs he's got a back up plan. Instead of buying it, he's leasing. The lease payment is $250 a month, upgraded from the $199 a month plan. He has to stay under 15,000 miles a year, which being so close to work isn't a problem. He traded in another car, which he was dumping $300 a month worth of gas into. The Leaf has a really good power consumption calculator in the dash so its easy to figure out how much its costing to recharge. He says he's spending an additional $7 a month in electricity. Total costs: $257 a month. However for him, its a net wash since he no longer is spending $300 in gas and is essentially getting paid $43 a month to drive a new car. After about a couple of weeks the question hit him, why doesn't everybody drive one of these?

He let me take it for a spin, I started it up and it was dead quiet except for a few beeps and the fans from the air conditioning. Inside was roomier than my Toyota Matrix. All kinds of bells and whistles like syncing your smart phone to the stereo and he can use the car's app to turn on the air conditioning before he gets to his car if he knows he's on the way to the car. It drives smoothly but I thought the breaks were slightly sticky he says is due to breaking regeneration as the car's tires double as electric generators that help recharge the battery when coasting and breaking. No oil changes or any other routine maintenance except wiper blades, tires and eventually brakes. Since its a newer technology they aren't sure about how the battery will hold out long term; 10 years + but he'll be out of his lease by then.

Conservatives aren't opposed to electric vehicles.....
 

Smeagol

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,147
Reaction score
1,694
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It was a little funny wasn't it? "I mean no offense but in my experience Republicans are just horrible, wretched, people and here are some examples."

But no, we shouldn't get defensive. Lol.

Horrible people, wretched people? I would never say that. Generally opposed to electric cars for stated reasons that run the entire gamut? No offense but I think yes.
 

Smeagol

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,147
Reaction score
1,694
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Conservatives aren't opposed to electric vehicles.....

As someone who has been advocating their acceptance as soon as possible in the defense of this country for going on 10 years, I'm sorry, I guess I'll need to see some consistent evidence.
 

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
As someone who has been advocating their acceptance as soon as possible in the defense of this country for going on 10 years, I'm sorry, I guess I'll need to see some consistent evidence.

Conservatives have never said they don't want electric cars. What we HAVE said is we don't want to immediately do away with fossil fuels until the alternative energies can give the same bang for the same buck.
 

X Factor

Anti-Socialist
Dungeon Master
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
59,183
Reaction score
29,747
Location
El Paso Strong
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
As someone who has been advocating their acceptance as soon as possible in the defense of this country for going on 10 years, I'm sorry, I guess I'll need to see some consistent evidence.

If you want acceptance for electric cars, make them a superior product. Don't try guilt tripping us into buying something inferior. Or better yet, let the people choose what they drive. Radical, I know.
 

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
If you want acceptance for electric cars, make them a superior product. Don't try guilt tripping us into buying something inferior. Or better yet, let the people choose what they drive. Radical, I know.

Not to mention something twice the cost.
 

Smeagol

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,147
Reaction score
1,694
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Republicans vying for the White House and members of Congress looking to appeal to part of their "base" constituents enjoy ridiculing the extended range electric Chevrolet Volt, as well as other electric vehicles they don't see as viable...
Why Gingrich And GOP Bash Electric Vehicles

..Republicans now are targeting what they have dubbed “Obamacars.” For some GOP members of Congress, the Chevy Volt, made by General Motors, is a fire hazard and a job loser, while Palo Alto’s Tesla Motors is a crony capitalist purveyor of toy cars for Silicon Valley millionaires. The campaign has tainted Energy Secretary and University of California at Berkeley physicist Steven Chu and his agency’s renewable energy loan programs, rupturing a consensus under former president George W. Bush, who started the programs to end America’s addiction to oil. But it may not stop the electric car. The assault has enraged General Motors. On March 1, the company opened an unprecedented campaign to re-introduce the Volt in California, the nation’s biggest auto market, even as it temporarily halted production because of slow sales. GM Chief Executive Officer Dan Akerson has complained about the political atmosphere that surrounds the Volt.
Fuel Fix » Electric car supporters fight back against GOP attacks

Michigan Senator Carl Levin owns a Chev Volt. But there are no plug-in car chargers in the Congressional parking lot. So Senator Levin introduced a bill in the Senate, to tell the parking lot people that it is OK to install an electric car Volt charger. No cost involved, mind you, not a taxpayer dime is at risk. The bill simply said it would be ok to designate several parking spots inside the Senate parking lot, to have someone install an electric car charger. Designated electric car area. Only that it's o.k. to do that. Guess what? A REPUBLICAN BLOCKED THE BILL.

Republicans block electric car charger on Captial Hill - Democratic Underground

GM’s Former Vice Chairman, Bob Lutz, slammed GOP media pundits yesterday for spreading “pure fiction” about the Chevy Volt and other electric vehicles. Conservative commentators — led by Rush Limbaugh and Fox News — have taken every opportunity to tear down the Chevy Volt, calling it “crappy,” a “Fred Flinstone car,” and an “exploding Obamamobile.” They’ve even called Volt drivers “dorks.”
Former GM Executive Bob Lutz Slams The GOP's 'Pure Fiction, Knee-Jerk' Hatred Of Electric Cars | ThinkProgress


Tesla vice president blasts North Carolina Republican’s attack on the free market
Tesla vice president blasts North Carolina Republican’s attack on the free market | The Raw Story

Again, no offense intended. I was just trying to show that despite the political cultural opposition from the right (in my view), a republican friend of mine is gong-ho over his new electric car showing they can be for everyone.
 
Last edited:

X Factor

Anti-Socialist
Dungeon Master
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
59,183
Reaction score
29,747
Location
El Paso Strong
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Republicans vying for the White House and members of Congress looking to appeal to part of their "base" constituents enjoy ridiculing the extended range electric Chevrolet Volt, as well as other electric vehicles they don't see as viable...
Why Gingrich And GOP Bash Electric Vehicles

..Republicans now are targeting what they have dubbed “Obamacars.” For some GOP members of Congress, the Chevy Volt, made by General Motors, is a fire hazard and a job loser, while Palo Alto’s Tesla Motors is a crony capitalist purveyor of toy cars for Silicon Valley millionaires. The campaign has tainted Energy Secretary and University of California at Berkeley physicist Steven Chu and his agency’s renewable energy loan programs, rupturing a consensus under former president George W. Bush, who started the programs to end America’s addiction to oil. But it may not stop the electric car. The assault has enraged General Motors. On March 1, the company opened an unprecedented campaign to re-introduce the Volt in California, the nation’s biggest auto market, even as it temporarily halted production because of slow sales. GM Chief Executive Officer Dan Akerson has complained about the political atmosphere that surrounds the Volt.
Fuel Fix » Electric car supporters fight back against GOP attacks

Michigan Senator Carl Levin owns a Chev Volt. But there are no plug-in car chargers in the Congressional parking lot. So Senator Levin introduced a bill in the Senate, to tell the parking lot people that it is OK to install an electric car Volt charger. No cost involved, mind you, not a taxpayer dime is at risk. The bill simply said it would be ok to designate several parking spots inside the Senate parking lot, to have someone install an electric car charger. Designated electric car area. Only that it's o.k. to do that. Guess what? A REPUBLICAN BLOCKED THE BILL.

Republicans block electric car charger on Captial Hill - Democratic Underground

GM’s Former Vice Chairman, Bob Lutz, slammed GOP media pundits yesterday for spreading “pure fiction” about the Chevy Volt and other electric vehicles. Conservative commentators — led by Rush Limbaugh and Fox News — have taken every opportunity to tear down the Chevy Volt, calling it “crappy,” a “Fred Flinstone car,” and an “exploding Obamamobile.” They’ve even called Volt drivers “dorks.”
Former GM Executive Bob Lutz Slams The GOP's 'Pure Fiction, Knee-Jerk' Hatred Of Electric Cars | ThinkProgress


Tesla vice president blasts North Carolina Republican’s attack on the free market
Tesla vice president blasts North Carolina Republican’s attack on the free market | The Raw Story

Again, no offense intended. I was just trying to show that despite the political cultural opposition from the right (in my view), a republican friend of mine id gong-ho over his new electric car showing they can be for everyone.

I notice you have no argument when it comes to comments about the electric car's ability (or inability) to compete which is entirely consistent with other people I know who are just like you. No offense.
 

jmotivator

No longer monitoring
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
27,115
Reaction score
13,518
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Well, that had to be quite the gas guzzler to burn $300/month in gas, for under 15K miles annual.

I think the math might be just a smidgen off...


Hah, I was wondering the same thing. The math:

10 miles a day, 21 days a month commuting = 210 miles/month

$300 at $3.80 ~ 79 gallons/month

210/79 = 3.8 MPG.

What was he driving, a tank?
 

jmotivator

No longer monitoring
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
27,115
Reaction score
13,518
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Horrible people, wretched people? I would never say that. Generally opposed to electric cars for stated reasons that run the entire gamut? No offense but I think yes.


Conservatives don't oppose electric cars, we oppose electric car subsidies that are designed to make electric cars competitive in the car market. This kind of artificial competition inhibits innovation.
 

Smeagol

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
4,147
Reaction score
1,694
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Conservatives don't oppose electric cars, we oppose electric car subsidies that are designed to make electric cars competitive in the car market. This kind of artificial competition inhibits innovation.


Interesting. We'll I see it as not a purely economic matter but a crucial national security investment; pennies on the dollar compared to the military expenses needed to maintain the status quo monopoly of oil. Although I'm too busy to think of any examples now, I'm pretty sure there have been similar initiatives in the past that have encouraged public behavior due to national security concerns. I also wonder what people who think TEMPORARILY priming the pump on electric cars just until they can stand on their own once similar mass production and competition driven improvements hit the market think about PERMANENT farm subsidies where corn for example is given a forever taxpayer subsidized advantage over other vegetables and if there happens to be any opposition at all, is it anywhere near as passionately opposed as electric car subsidies?
 
Last edited:

sawyerloggingon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
14,699
Reaction score
5,703
Location
Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Interesting. We'll I see it as not a purely economic matter but a crucial national security investment; pennies on the dollar compared to the military expenses needed to maintain the status quo monopoly of oil. Although I'm too busy to think of any examples now, I'm pretty sure there have been similar initiatives in the past that have encouraged public behavior due to national security concerns. I also wonder what people who think TEMPORARILY priming the pump on electric cars just until they can stand on their own once similar mass production and competition driven improvements hit the market think about PERMANENT farm subsidies where corn for example is given a forever taxpayer subsidized advantage over other vegetables and if there happens to be any opposition at all, is it anywhere near as passionately opposed as electric car subsidies?

Corn subsidies for ethanol ended because the tea party raised holy hell about all subsidies including corn.
 

Lord of Planar

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
45,032
Reaction score
13,193
Location
Portlandia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Smeagol said:
No offense intended, its just been my experience that my republican friends generally oppose anything other than the traditional internal combustion engine vehicle, not just on ecological reason but to me it seems like they feel a duty to oppose them for anything they can some up with.
It seems to me the only opposition they have are the tax break, regulations, etc, that liberals want to do that comes along with trying to change society.


Smeagol said:
My democrat friends tend to be more enthusiastic about seeing other options.
More enthisistic about subsidizing them, right?


Smeagol said:
In fact, a happened to have to have run into a mutual friend as I leaving and commented on Daniel's cool new car. This friend, a conservative immediately started being negative about it saying it wasn't safe for families because in a crash it was too lightweight to offer adequate protection.
Well, are these true concerns? Maybe he actually thinks that if not.


Smeagol said:
Usually people are happy when their friends get new stuff but this guy seemed upset. Another republican friend sees alternatives as a waste of time and money of which government has no business supporting.
It's not a waste of time, but money... YES!


Smeagol said:
When I brought up the government's investment in NASA in the 1960s and 70s, she said that was different because that was linked to national security. When I asked why she didn't see 9/11 as a national security matter, she threw up her hands in disgust and shortly thereafter had me removed from a work related conservative PR project.
Well, the space program was for security, but also a grand project for furthering the sciences that no individual corporation could do.


Smeagol said:
Another Republican friend said he could not support battery operated cars for himself or anybody else because when he presses the gas pedal, he wants power and without test driving one assumed electrics lacked power. Plus he says he's concerned that electic car batteries would end up being buried in the ground I guess, after their useful time and contaminate the water table.
There are justified concerns that businesses replacing battiest, junkyards, etc. will take shortcuts of waste disposal.

Enough of the responses on this.

I think it boils down to what I said in the beginning. The government should not be capital venturists. These products should stand on their own merit, without subsidies.
 

humbolt

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
26,081
Reaction score
17,566
Location
SW Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Electric cars have a niche market in urban areas. They aren't ready for prime time. We should be exploiting our natural gas reserves and converting the civilian fleet to natural gas for the internal combustion engine until viable alternatives are ready. We have the time and the money to do this. What we lack is the will.
 
Top Bottom