"I don’t think you can choose a president based on their personal behavior[...]"

[Obscurity]

shame? BAHAHAH! wow. Ok. I just donated $1,000 to Birthright on this comment alone. You do this again, I will donate another 1,000. So you just try to "shame me" as much as you want, it will be you supporting the "Jewish state" via me and your ****ty comments, and I got the money to do it.


Ever Genocided a people so hard, that their population doubles in 20 years?

Go ahead big mouth, let's see the donation receipt. Your zionist support will only fall in time, along with the odious, hate filled, genocidal nonsense your zombie god preaches.

 

[DarkWizard12]

I need none of your necrocracy and the sordid zombie god you worship in my life, thank you.

Love the sinner. Tell that to all the gays you folks routinely demonize and villify.

Cherry picking evangelicals; can smell them a century away.

You know, Jesus never said to worship him, only to follow him and his ways.

When i see all this hatred coming out of you at me, even though I've never hurt a gay person in my life or.....whatever you think I've done....it's just an example to me that, without G-d, I'd be just like you.

I don't hate anyone man, not even you....oh sure, I troll forums yea, but I don't have the time to hate or be angry at any group of people.

 

[Obscurity]

You know, Jesus never said to worship him, only to follow him and his ways.

When i see all this hatred coming out of you at me, even though I've never hurt a gay person in my life or.....whatever you think I've done....it's just an example to me that, without G-d, I'd be just like you.

I don't hate anyone man, not even you....oh sure, I troll forums yea, but I don't have the time to hate or be angry at any group of people.

You are doing evil by supporting a corrupt, warmongering state that is actively bull dozing the homes of farmers to build settlements for jews.

By default, until you see the error of your ways, we will never get along.

I don't give a **** what some Zombie says. What jesus said is as of as much importance as the zombie that insisted eating brains salves the pain of being dead.

 

[Myview]

I can honestly say this quote by Falwell Jr., where he lays out a leader's policies are more important than their character or integrity, is the most stunning thing I have heard. Not because of its absurdity, but by the sheer fact that a third of this country clearly believes it. One thing I remember about every atrocious leader in history is one unifying theme. Everything they did they and their supporters justified as "what was best for the country". When someone admits there is nothing someone can do to lose their support, that is no longer a supporter but a follower. Trump has amassed an army of followers.

Yeah I saw that. Stunning. When asked if there was anything Trump could do that would cause him to withdraw his support Jerry Falwell Jr said "No". Why? Because he likes Trumps policies. That means that no court, no finding of any of the investigations including Mueller's, nothing that is turned up if Trump is forced to release his tax returns, no possible future conviction, absolutely nothing would cause him to withdraw his support. Falwell went on to say that he couldn't imagine that Trump would ever do anything that was not in the best interest of the country. He even said that Evangelicals not supporting Trump could possibly be immoral. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-jerry-falwell-jr-trump-20190101-story.html

 

[DarkWizard12]

You are doing evil by supporting a corrupt, warmongering state that is actively bull dozing the homes of farmers to build settlements for jews.

By default, until you see the error of your ways, we will never get along.

I don't give a **** what some Zombie says. What jesus said is as of as much importance as the zombie that insisted eating brains salves the pain of being dead.

I don't believe that, but if that's what you want to believe then, i don't see what you gain by attacking me....hell...the "Zionists" gain when you attack me lol.

Who can tell the future? Maybe Israel will fall....but then, maybe not. Who can say. But should they fall, I will die knowing i did what I honestly believed wholeheartedly in, and there is a bit of liberation in that fact.

I don't care about getting along with you. I care about simple respect. I think you're wrong, but you're still a human, and I'm not going to think of you differently just because you have different beliefs. Why the disrespect against me? if I can treat you with respect, you can treat me with respect.

As for Jesus, he's no longer on this earth, but G-d is everywhere. If you don't believe in jesus then don't believe him, but at least believe in his principles. They're not exactly hard, even for an atheist.

 

[Obscurity]

I don't believe that, but if that's what you want to believe then, i don't see what you gain by attacking me....hell...the "Zionists" gain when you attack me lol.

Who can tell the future? Maybe Israel will fall....but then, maybe not. Who can say. But should they fall, I will die knowing i did what I honestly believed wholeheartedly in, and there is a bit of liberation in that fact.

I don't care about getting along with you. I care about simple respect. I think you're wrong, but you're still a human, and I'm not going to think of you differently just because you have different beliefs. Why the disrespect against me? if I can treat you with respect, you can treat me with respect.

As for Jesus, he's no longer on this earth, but G-d is everywhere. If you don't believe in jesus then don't believe him, but at least believe in his principles. They're not exactly hard, even for an atheist.

1. Respect is earned or it has no value. Thus, I will not just respect you. Especially if you donate to causes that destroy the lives of indigenous peopls to fulfil a biblical prophecy.

2. I live by the human code, not the edicts of some clearly deranged madman dead over 2,000 years that thought he could perform miracles and chase demons into herds of swine.

 

[DarkWizard12]

1. Respect is earned or it has no value. Thus, I will not just respect you. Especially if you donate to causes that destroy the lives of indigenous peopls to fulfil a biblical prophecy.

And yet, you would expect me to respect you. It works both ways. Don't think, just because I'm religious, that I should respect you for nothing. My price is that you respect me, and you will receive mine in turn. If respect isn't important to you at all, then by all means disrespect me, but don't think you're doing yourself favors....and if you truly don't care if I show respect, why then, would it matter to you if Trump shows respect?

2. I live by the human code, not the edicts of some clearly deranged madman dead over 2,000 years that thought he could perform miracles and chase demons into herds of swine.

Then your human code, which allows you disrespect entire swaths of people for their beliefs, I find to be lacking in ethics. In my 'religious beliefs', of which I am in no way a master in, we pay a price ethically and spiritually if we don't show at least a minimum amount of respect to others. You say you don't need god to be a good person....so why then, does it seem, you're not a good person at all? Your behaviour would be an exhibit of why humanity needs God.

 

[Conaeolos]

I can honestly say this quote by Falwell Jr., where he lays out a leader's policies are more important than their character or integrity, is the most stunning thing I have heard. Not because of its absurdity, but by the sheer fact that a third of this country clearly believes it. One thing I remember about every atrocious leader in history is one unifying theme. Everything they did they and their supporters justified as "what was best for the country". When someone admits there is nothing someone can do to lose their support, that is no longer a supporter but a follower. Trump has amassed an army of followers.

God I couldn’t imagine if, strike every other thing, but Obama had ****ed porn stars and paid them for their silence, all up and down the far right wing evangelical blogosphere and Fox News, they would not have shut up about it and used it as an example of the decadence of the Democratic Party and the president.

That example alone, shows they are the worst kind of hypocrites, they vote en masse to deny certain types of people rights, women, their reproductive rights... all in the name of morality... and look who has their unwavering support without question, a guy like Trump.

Reactionary Christianity man, a ****ing farce.

The ignorance of morality on fully display.

Despite every president from JFK to Trump being compared and discussed in detail of the moral standard and with the countless examples from both parties. And we still can't identify the distinction between how one treats past and current behaviour?

If you have committed adultery but stop and condemn myself. You are a sinner who has repented. Humble thyself.

If you are committing adultery or are very likely to repeat. You are to be stopped as you are promoting sin.

How is that so hard to understand? The problem in christian morals is not you've done X its supporting X. Recognizing yes if you've done X you're more likely to do X again.

So to say his policies matter not his character. Is like saying an ex-con is less likelihood of being your pastor over a church boy; but, if an ex-con is your pastor. Their actions not history or brash tone is what defines their authority as a pastor.

 

[Obscurity]

And yet, you would expect me to respect you. It works both ways. Don't think, just because I'm religious, that I should respect you for nothing. My price is that you respect me, and you will receive mine in turn. If respect isn't important to you at all, then by all means disrespect me, but don't think you're doing yourself favors....and if you truly don't care if I show respect, why then, would it matter to you if Trump shows respect?


Then your human code, which allows you disrespect entire swaths of people for their beliefs, I find to be lacking in ethics. In my 'religious beliefs', of which I am in no way a master in, we pay a price ethically and spiritually if we don't show at least a minimum amount of respect to others. You say you don't need god to be a good person....so why then, does it seem, you're not a good person at all? Your behaviour would be an exhibit of why humanity needs God.

I don't care if you respect me, and if you insist I respect you first, you are assuming a position of authority you are not entitled to.

Humanity needs god like it needs an ebola epidemic. Your bronze age war god, which was cost millions of lives and untold swathes of humanity's creative force, has no place in modern society. I don't disrespect you for your religious beliefs, and I challenge you to prove religious beliefs are worthy of respect in the first place; I disrespect you because you fund the state of Israel which is actively engaged in ethnic cleansing - which you pay for.

That alone makes you unworthy of my respect.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

You know, Jesus never said to worship him, only to follow him and his ways.

When i see all this hatred coming out of you at me, even though I've never hurt a gay person in my life or.....whatever you think I've done....it's just an example to me that, without G-d, I'd be just like you.

I don't hate anyone man, not even you....oh sure, I troll forums yea, but I don't have the time to hate or be angry at any group of people.

Trump hates for you, and uses EO's to punish any of them he can. The GOP's policies work the same way - but those screw you too, you just don't feel it yet.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Humanity needs god like it needs an ebola epidemic. Your bronze age war god, which was cost millions of lives and untold swathes of humanity's creative force, has no place in modern society. I don't disrespect you for your religious beliefs, and I challenge you to prove religious beliefs are worthy of respect in the first place; I disrespect you because you fund the state of Israel which is actively engaged in ethnic cleansing - which you pay for.

That alone makes you unworthy of my respect.

If you're going to use such a premise, then you need to a prove that a genocide is happening in Israel. When palestinian population is increasing at such a large rate well....data certainly isn't on your side. Since you've given me no reason to respect you, and your narrative, I can only respect the data then.

But don't bother, because of this:

I don't care if you respect me, and if you insist I respect you first, you are assuming a position of authority you are not entitled to.

My position of authority is that as a human with an experienced mind. I respect all humans, including you....until you give me reason otherwise. You've had to your chance to change your attitude, and now I think discussion is over. I only wished to make it clear that there is much doubt in claims of genocide in Israel, and that, as always, Israel stands as a beacon of humanity in a barbaric middle east. They have accomplished much in their small state, and I don't see any other peoples in this modern generation that could accomplish the same things they have. Israelis are truly pioneers, and it is a badge of honor to be lumped in with them by someone such as yourself. For this reason, I donate more money to them, in your name. Every time you disrespect me, you will share the blessing of supporting the jewish state, in your honor

Now that that's been said, this conversation is over. Stay with your little hateful delusions, I have no desire to break them for you. We are done here.

goodbye!

 

[<alt>doxygen]

The ignorance of morality on fully display.

Despite every president from JFK to Trump being compared and discussed in detail of the moral standard and with the countless examples from both parties. And we still can't identify the distinction between how one treats past and current behaviour?

If you have committed adultery but stop and condemn myself. You are a sinner who has repented. Humble thyself.

If you are committing adultery or are very likely to repeat. You are to be stopped as you are promoting sin.

How is that so hard to understand? The problem in christian morals is not you've done X its supporting X. Recognizing yes if you've done X you're more likely to do X again.

So to say his policies matter not his character. Is like saying an ex-con is less likelihood of being your pastor over a church boy; but, if an ex-con is your pastor. Their actions not history or brash tone is what defines their authority as a pastor.

They are the same people that criticized Clinton for his character. Character polled as very important to them until 2016, then that changed radically. They have become an end justifies means group, and I disagree with the ends they seek. That is what little Falwell was saying, then end justifies the means.

In fairness, you can justify or damn just about anything by choosing convenient verses from the bible.

 

[Acadia]

Their parents?

Actually, my mother would have been a good president. Strict but fair. Logical, reasonable, and with a motto of "question authority," even hers.

What I want, I'm unlikely to get: a smart but boring man or woman with a strong work ethic, an ego strong enough to take the advice of the experts he or she hires, and not beholden to corporate America nor any of the deep pocket lobbyists on K Street.

What I want is a slow news day.

I can't argue with you there! The problem is, when we have slow news days, the MSM goes into overdrive tilting at windmills, cranking up the rumor mill and generally putting out anti-Trump spin on stories.
I guess that's the luxury we have with such a great economy.

 

[Jetboogieman]

The ignorance of morality on fully display.

Despite every president from JFK to Trump being compared and discussed in detail of the moral standard and with the countless examples from both parties. And we still can't identify the distinction between how one treats past and current behaviour?

If you have committed adultery but stop and condemn myself. You are a sinner who has repented. Humble thyself.

If you are committing adultery or are very likely to repeat. You are to be stopped as you are promoting sin.

How is that so hard to understand? The problem in christian morals is not you've done X its supporting X. Recognizing yes if you've done X you're more likely to do X again.

So to say his policies matter not his character. Is like saying an ex-con is less likelihood of being your pastor over a church boy; but, if an ex-con is your pastor. Their actions not history or brash tone is what defines their authority as a pastor.

Yah, that’s nice and all.

But the words “humble” and “repentant” don’t really go with Trump very well do they?

 

[AlbqOwl]

Benghazi was a bunch of odious partisan nonsense drummed up by rabid right wing ideologues to try and smear Obama for something when they could have attacked him for other things.

Benghazi is and always was a non-issue. No one gave a damn about it. It was just a clarion call for tea party morons to cling to during their lunatic meltdown over Obama's presidency.

You can keep them was an outright lie.

Just like practically everything that has come out of the orange **** gibbon's mouth since he decided to sieze on the ignorance of a bereft voter class and claim a New York Billionaire understood life for "average Americans living paycheck to paycheck."

The ****ing mice literally thought the cat was empathetic to their plight.

Laughable.

Maybe you don't care if a U.S. ambassador and others on his staff are brutally murdered. I don't think that you can make a case that none of us do.

 

[Conaeolos]

They are the same people that criticized Clinton for his character. Character polled as very important to them until 2016, then that changed radically. They have become an end justifies means group, and I disagree with the ends they seek. That is what little Falwell was saying, then end justifies the means.

In fairness, you can justify or damn just about anything by choosing convenient verses from the bible.

Oh trust me I know, I still hear it when I am defending Clinton. The point is they think he was a rapist not that he had affair; where as, with Trump I think there is worry about his past character, impoliteness & egotism but do for the most part view him as reformed(by his actions/policies) or perhaps better said struggling in the right direction.

That is not hypocritical to the moral standard IMHO. Chrsitians are all about being welcoming to flawed humans. Trump himself explains he finds showing any 'regret' ingeninue. He has implied to making mistakes but maintains the best way to address those mistakes are to never think about it and just do better(focus on the win).I certianly would rather one looks to learn from their mistakes more so than that, but it's not incompatible.

We should also note showing regret to the modren mob/media/person is a politcal death sentence, so I not really sure who would be good enough in this regard. Another way truely good men and woman are prevented from politcal service.

Yah, that’s nice and all.

But the words “humble” and “repentant” don’t really go with Trump very well do they?

They are certainly not your first adjectives that come to mind.

In the context of moral humility, for all of Trumps egocentric language and lifestyle, he does at the end of day: concede, listen, reform, defer to moral men. Etc. more so than most.

It not clear cut to me as the claim goes he is an egregious liar for example. Although, the technical errors in his extremely imprecise speech has been drum beat since he announced. His way of speaking does more than most politicians/public figures to reflect his actual thoughts and intentions. Where other speaks to careful to win people over and say it the right way. I think Trump is well categorized as filterless (although proven more than capable of it) and there is more honesty and integrity in being filterless than PR speak any way you cut it.

I will teach my kids to be more precise in their language than Trump. I think them better for it, but to deny the power of radical honesty is to miss the man behind the showman and a source of his draw.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Oh trust me I know, I still hear it when I am defending Clinton. The point is they think he was a rapist not that he had affair; where as, with Trump I think there is worry about his past character, impoliteness & egotism but do for the most part view him as reformed(by his actions/policies) or perhaps better said struggling in the right direction.

That is not hypocritical to the moral standard IMHO. Chrsitians are all about being welcoming to flawed humans. Trump himself explains he finds showing any 'regret' ingeninue. He has implied to making mistakes but maintains the best way to address those mistakes are to never think about it and just do better(focus on the win).I certianly would rather one looks to learn from their mistakes more so than that, but it's not incompatible.

We should also note showing regret to the modren mob/media/person is a politcal death sentence, so I not really sure who would be good enough in this regard. Another way truely good men and woman are prevented from politcal service.

You give both Trump and the Evangelical types that hand him daily mulligans more rope than I would grant them, but I suppose we can agree to disagree. That may be because Trump's actions better suit a right-libertarian than a left libertarian like myself. I find his authoritarian streak and complete ignorance of the constitution anathema.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote anyway.

 

[Vern]

Bull****. You flipped flopped on immigration to support Obama. Obama was all about border security, and both he and Bill Clinton had similar rhetoric toward immigrants in their day.


To be fair to you though, we all knew, even democrats, that they were never serious about cracking down on immigration so....it's not THAT big of a flip flop, but still. They get a pass on rhetoric, and Trump doesn't.

wow, triple spaced random blurts. I'm impressed. I usually only get the double spaced random blurts. anyhoo, I posted documented examples of hypocrisy from the right. It's looks like you're arguing with yourself if I'm hypocrite or not. When one of you wins the argument come on back and lets compare it to the documented examples I posted.

You want to know something odd? these exact words were said by members of this forum when republicans would slander Clinton all those years ago. Now, all of a sudden, democrats care about character.

Just wanted you to know that you're "misparaphrasing" what democrats said. We said Bill's personal life was his business. Conservatives said otherwise because you pretended to care about "character". Now that trump has made Bill look like an altar boy, you and yours no longer care about character. Its why its on the list.

 

[tres borrachos]

You want to know something odd? these exact words were said by members of this forum when republicans would slander Clinton all those years ago. Now, all of a sudden, democrats care about character.

And now, all of a sudden, Republicans don't.

 

[Jetboogieman]

They are certainly not your first adjectives that come to mind.

In the context of moral humility, for all of Trumps egocentric language and lifestyle, he does at the end of day: concede, listen, reform, defer to moral men. Etc. more so than most.

In what ****ing universe?

 

[CriticalThought]

The Whataboutism in regards to Clinton is interesting. I think it highlights exactly why the GOP is losing the 18-29 crowd at historical proportions. That group is not hypocritical. They did not vote for Clinton. They are turning against the elected politician who lacks integrity and character now.

The best the right can seemingly come up with is to complain about what the left did over 18 years ago. Regardless of how someone may feel about Obama's policies or George W.'s policies, few can are argue that Trump has even an ounce of either's character. Both are very flawed men, but they are not amoral like Trump. They respected the presidency and what it represented.

To the younger generation the GOP has abandoned their moral compass in exchange for a bitterness and resentment of Democrats that is personal and even in cases, dehumanizing. Not to say Democrats have not found themselves doing the same thing towards Republicans, but Trump is now the poster boy for this kind of partisan culture of hate. It is telling that calling someone a "Hillary lover", "Obama lover", or "Democrat" is now the most heinous of insults one person on the right can lob at another on the right.

There is no longer any room to question Trump within the right wing. You risk being ostracized if you do. That has simply not existed in the modern left in this country. You could criticize Clinton and Obama and not be branded as some sort of traitor.

 

[Conaeolos]

In what ****ing universe?

Perhaps where you see a ??? I just see a known personality type. For example: enneagram 8 and it frames events differently.

 

[Idiometer]

'conservatives' learned to progress....at least that's what the 1990's-2000's liberal would say. What's the democrat's excuse for regressing on this idea? Why was it progressive to see through a president's personal behavior back then, and now, it's not progressive at all to discount the president's personal behaviour? I'm serious, what changed the democrat's mind on this?

In point of fact, it wasn't okay back then with anyone I know, but like I mentioned before, I'm not a Democrat so I can't speak for the party. I just know that Mr. Smarmy was an okay president, but on a personal level, not okay with me or with most of the people I know. And did he not get well and truly spanked for it back then? So, if we're going to indulge in a little whataboutism, tit-for-tat shouldn't Trump get the same treatment? Clinton getting a blow job in the Oval Office was truly awful, especially for Monica Lewinsky, but Trump paying off two women with whom he had affairs just weeks before the election is actually illegal, because he did it in order to affect the outcome of the election.

 

[Idiometer]

I don't know you, so I'll take you at your word for it, but all these democrats who are raging at trump for having affairs when they only defended Bill Clinton have some explaining to do. When did being paragons of morality matter to you?

I don't think his pecker is the problem with most Democrats. It's the fact that he was helped into the Oval Office by an adversarial dictator, plus the fact that he paid two of his women off just before the election. Not to mention the now dozens of indictments and the contacts beytween so many of his people and so many Russians that we're still finding out about.

 

[Idiometer]

I can't argue with you there! The problem is, when we have slow news days, the MSM goes into overdrive tilting at windmills, cranking up the rumor mill and generally putting out anti-Trump spin on stories.
I guess that's the luxury we have with such a great economy.

In those cases, I'll be more than happy to turn them off!