I believe in biblical marriage.

[Smeagol]

Seeing as how I married a German after being stationed in Germany, I went with the war-bride route.



So you'll accept any forced marriage, no matter how horrific, such as "rapist + victim", as long as they're opposite gender? That actually says a lot, and confirms the OP's point.

As difficult as it is to understand, forced marriage of rapists in the ot was not punishment for the victim but rather punishment on the perpetrator and represented guaranteed financial security for life for the victim in a culture where no longer being a virgin meant it was probable no one else would want her. Personally I had a problem with this too but learned ancient culture was really jacked up and this ordinance honestly represented the best outcome in for the victim under very different circumstances than we live in today. It essentially says to the perp, you are required to provide for her for the rest of your life and unlike other marriages, you may never divorce her under any circumstance.

FYI: in that same section of the OT, rape is described as being in the same class of crime as murder. It also says if a rape victim was engaged to someone else or married, the rapist was to be executed.

Interestingly, there were cases of rape in the OT and I can only recall one instance where any of these penalties were carried out except one, possibly two, maybe. King David's son led a military rebellion against him. The son's army eventually captured the palace causing David to flee for his life. In the rush, several of the son's step-mothers didnt make it out in time and the son raped each one of them on the roof of the palace in broad view of everyone. The son later executed on battlefield by David's forces despite standing orders from David to spare his son's life.

Interestingly, earlier in David's life he got a married woman pregnant, a death penalty crime for which he never was sentenced. Many students of the Bible including myself theorize David essentially raped the woman. In 1000 bc, kings were dictators. Some were harsh, others not so harsh and popular with the people. Regardless however, what the king said went. It was on the very same palace roof David initially noticed the woman he would eventually get pregnant bathing (no indoor plumbing back then). He sent an armed military officer to bring her to the palace and we know what happened next. Long story of how David tried to make the husband think he was the father and eventually had him killed but in the aftermath she became Queen and her second son was David's successor to the throne. The queen's first husband who David killed is listed in the royal earthly lineage of Jesus in the nt, I assume granting him some sort of royal status in the future.

 

[Campbell]

Amazing how the Biblical version of marriage agrees with the versions of marriage practiced by all the other religions and even primitive tribes with that whole notion that it isn't a marriage if it doesn't include at least one of each sex.

Like the rest of the bible it's just another load of ancient bull****. In the old testament, where homosexuals were mentioned there are also 41 other actions for which a person can be put to death. How do you feel about farting at the dinner table?


There are forty-two death-penalty sins in the Old Testament:

•Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.

•Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.

•Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex.
•2:15,19.

•Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.

•Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.

•Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.

•Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.

•Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.

•Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.

•Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.

•Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.

•Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.

•Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.

•Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.

•Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.

•Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in
•uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.

•Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.

•Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.

•Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.

•Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.

•Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.

•Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.

•Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.

•Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.

•Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.

•Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.

•Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.

•Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.

•Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.

•Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.

•Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.

•Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.

•Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.

•Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.

•Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.

•False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.

•Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.

•Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.

•Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.

•Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.

•Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.

•False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.

 

[roguenuke]

As difficult as it is to understand, forced marriage of rapists in the ot was not punishment for the victim but rather punishment on the perpetrator and represented guaranteed financial security for life for the victim in a culture where no longer being a virgin meant it was probable no one else would want her. Personally I had a problem with this too but learned ancient culture was really jacked up and this ordinance honestly represented the best outcome in for the victim under very different circumstances than we live in today. It essentially says to the perp, you are required to provide for her for the rest of your life and unlike other marriages, you may never divorce her under any circumstance.

FYI: in that same section of the OT, rape is described as being in the same class of crime as murder. It also says if a rape victim was engaged to someone else or married, the rapist was to be executed.

Interestingly, there were cases of rape in the OT and I can only recall one instance where any of these penalties were carried out except one, possibly two, maybe. King David's son led a military rebellion against him. The son's army eventually captured the palace causing David to flee for his life. In the rush, several of the son's step-mothers didnt make it out in time and the son raped each one of them on the roof of the palace in broad view of everyone. The son later executed on battlefield by David's forces despite standing orders from David to spare his son's life.

Interestingly, earlier in David's life he got a married woman pregnant, a death penalty crime for which he never was sentenced. Many students of the Bible including myself theorize David essentially raped the woman. In 1000 bc, kings were dictators. Some were harsh, others not so harsh and popular with the people. Regardless however, what the king said went. It was on the very same palace roof David initially noticed the woman he would eventually get pregnant bathing (no indoor plumbing back then). He sent an armed military officer to bring her to the palace and we know what happened next. Long story of how David tried to make the husband think he was the father and eventually had him killed but in the aftermath she became Queen and her second son was David's successor to the throne. The queen's first husband who David killed is listed in the royal earthly lineage of Jesus in the nt, I assume granting him some sort of royal status in the future.

I think the whole point is that we should not live our lives in accordance with rules set down thousands of years ago because it was a different time back then and there is no reason to live by such barbaric rules, including the ban on same sex relationships that many cultures felt were justified, just as they did those rules surrounding marriage to any woman a man slept with.

 

[Papa bull]

I think the whole point is that we should not live our lives in accordance with rules set down thousands of years ago because it was a different time back then and there is no reason to live by such barbaric rules, including the ban on same sex relationships that many cultures felt were justified, just as they did those rules surrounding marriage to any woman a man slept with.

It's all good, then, because there is no ban on same sex relationships in the USA. You can fornicate with any consenting adult of any sex anywhere in the country.

 

[roguenuke]

It's all good, then, because there is no ban on same sex relationships in the USA. You can fornicate with any consenting adult of any sex anywhere in the country.

There is a ban on same sex marriage, which is a type of relationship. This ban is in place without furthering any legitimate state interest, so this ban, in the states where it exists, is unconstitutional. It is just a matter of time.

 

[Papa bull]

There is a ban on same sex marriage, which is a type of relationship. This ban is in place without furthering any legitimate state interest, so this ban, in the states where it exists, is unconstitutional. It is just a matter of time.

I think you are never going to see the oxymoron of same sex marriage forced on all 50 states because of some idiotic assumption that it's unconstitutional to define marriage as a man and a woman. Tell, ya what. You can start crowing when that happens. Until then, you can swear up and down that it's so and it's just you swearing a lot.

 

[roguenuke]

I think you are never going to see the oxymoron of same sex marriage forced on all 50 states because of some idiotic assumption that it's unconstitutional to define marriage as a man and a woman. Tell, ya what. You can start crowing when that happens. Until then, you can swear up and down that it's so and it's just you swearing a lot.

It's not just me. The majority of the US population believes same sex couples should be allowed to marry.

But as to your first assertion, it is idiotic to assume that a restriction on marriage defines marriage. You are free to define it as you wish, but you cannot force your definition on the rest of us without being able to show more than "it has always been that way". Too bad. That is not good enough to restrict rights.

 

[Papa bull]

It's not just me. The majority of the US population believes same sex couples should be allowed to marry.

But as to your first assertion, it is idiotic to assume that a restriction on marriage defines marriage. You are free to define it as you wish, but you cannot force your definition on the rest of us without being able to show more than "it has always been that way". Too bad. That is not good enough to restrict rights.

What's idiotic is to assume that the very definition of a marriage with something so basic and fundamental and NATURAL as a man and a woman joining together is a "restriction" against homosexuals. In fact, homosexuals can marry someone of the opposite sex in all 50 states and it's not my fault nor the state's fault if that doesn't suit their "preferences".

 

[Manc Skipper]

It's nice how people can take things out of context and make pretty charts to slander a religion and probably make an attempt to dig at them for accepting the fact that homosexual sex is a sin and in God's eyes a homosexual couple is neither married or living out of sin.

The concept of sin is a religious one, not appropriate in a secular setting.

 

[Smeagol]

It's all good, then, because there is no ban on same sex relationships in the USA. You can fornicate with any consenting adult of any sex anywhere in the country.

Everyone gets to make their own choices. I believe the Bible gives us guidelines to live by that more than anything else confirms what we already know deep inside was are the safe and unsafe ways to live, for our own benefit. We can treat the Bible like a set of Confucius Sayings cherry picking verses out of their context with no further explanation instead of taking the Bible in its entirety to justify writing it off as nonsense but I think when we do so to our own harm.

Btw: As far as I know, there is no "ban on same sex relationships in the USA". There are cultural norms where some people oppose it and many gays would like everyone to embrace it as "normal" but as far as I know, no one is banned from engaging in same sex relationships, assuming the sexual activity is being conducted in private and among consenting adults, which is the same for heterosexual relationships.

 

[Smeagol]

Like the rest of the bible it's just another load of ancient bull****. In the old testament, where homosexuals were mentioned there are also 41 other actions for which a person can be put to death. How do you feel about farting at the dinner table?


There are forty-two death-penalty sins in the Old Testament:

•Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.

•Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.

•Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex.
•2:15,19.

•Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.

•Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.

•Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.

•Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.

•Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.

•Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.

•Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.

•Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.

•Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.

•Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.

•Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.

•Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.

•Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in
•uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.

•Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.

•Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.

•Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.

•Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.

•Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.

•Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.

•Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.

•Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.

•Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.

•Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.

•Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.

•Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.

•Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.

•Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.

•Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.

•Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.

•Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.

•Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.

•Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.

•False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.

•Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.

•Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.

•Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.

•Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.

•Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.

•False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.

A lot of these do not call for the death penalty. Then after the Mosaic law you can read the stories in the Bible actually committed these sins and most were never executed. Conclusion: There were put there not to give anyone a reason to be put to death but to define sin according to God to people who think they haven't done anything wrong and show us of our need for forgiveness based on God's standards. The Jesus faces execution for all of us once and for all after doing nothing wrong himself but on our behalf.

 

[opendebate]

what gives you the right to define marriage according to your religion?

 

[opendebate]

and my assumption is that you would not then get all upset it did not suit YOUR preferences. The problem is that same sex couples are "denied rights" granted to traditional married couples based on nothing more than their sexual orientation. That is discrimination. You don't have to like it or do it but our government should honor it and provide same sex couples the same rights as traditional marriages.

 

[Smeagol]

Are you serious?

Leviticus 20:18. Sent into exile, not executed.
Leviticus 23:29 Sent into exile, not executed.
Leviticus 22:3 Excommunicated
Numbers 9:13 Sent into exile.
Num. 15:30,31 Sent into exlie
Deut. 17:2-7 Is not about backbiting.