I’m a former Moscow correspondent. Don’t let Vladimir Putin fool you: Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is only about one thing.

[bluesmoke]

was the claim of self determination a valid one of the people of crimea? let's look at poll results after the annexation by russia:

Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

exactly when was it obvious putin was going to invade?

it absolutely IS hindsight
but prove me wrong and show me the threads you began, asserting that we were wrong to delay the supply line to ukraine

you are so prescient about the failed actions in world affairs, tell us where the next hot spot is going to be and what actions should be undertaken NOW in that location - and why
i so look forward to such a forward looking reply where you are without the facts and cannot engage in monday morning quarterbacking

Crimea had no right of self-determination. They were under the sovereignty of Ukraine. They were not a separate, sovereign nation from Ukraine. They are not now a sovereign nation from Russia. You can’t provide evidence even that Crimea wanted to be their own nation, apart from Ukraine. You only have hindsight in a vain attempt to justify Russian invasion that was never wanted in the first place. Crimea was lost. The buildup in arms for Ukraine would be to protect further invasion of Ukraine, not retake Crimea. Though that should have been and still be a goal since invasion and annexation.

I didn’t believe there was enough Euro support to justify US increased aid to Ukraine. That’s what I’ve held to in various posting to do with US involvement in military support of other nations engaged in hostility against that nation’s right to self-determination. We can’t be the world’s police, but we can be a leader to gain support in coalition. Which support Biden is now doing. I do want to know what Obama and Biden did in that regard. The fact is, enough wasn’t being done when it was needed at a time when we had the intelligence to know the obvious of Russian intent. It’s stupid to expect someone to go back and review all posting to find the right thread and post to give you what you ask of me.

Wherever a nation’s sovereignty is being threatened, which would include buildup of border forces, is where our attention should be. Georgia was invaded by Russia and still some territory is occupied, even though a “peace” agreement was made, incl Russia as a signor. Any former Russian territory is on Putin’s list. The vision of Putin to get back what territories were once of Russia has been well publicized for yrs. That’s not “hindsight”. That Russia is the #1 aggressor threat, by military intervention, to the world is not hindsight. That’s been known for yrs. That Russia is the most aggressive nation against democracy in the world is not hindsight. We, being the world, especially the US and Europe, know all this. “In hindsight” is an excuse for not having a vision of the obvious, incl an understanding of history. I expect my leaders to have that vision and do what is right. Another hotspot is in the US with the Rep/cons attack on American democracy.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Crimea had no right of self-determination. They were under the sovereignty of Ukraine. They were not a separate, sovereign nation from Ukraine. They are not now a sovereign nation from Russia. You can’t provide evidence even that Crimea wanted to be their own nation, apart from Ukraine. You only have hindsight in a vain attempt to justify Russian invasion that was never wanted in the first place. Crimea was lost. The buildup in arms for Ukraine would be to protect further invasion of Ukraine, not retake Crimea. Though that should have been and still be a goal since invasion and annexation.

I didn’t believe there was enough Euro support to justify US increased aid to Ukraine. That’s what I’ve held to in various posting to do with US involvement in military support of other nations engaged in hostility against that nation’s right to self-determination. We can’t be the world’s police, but we can be a leader to gain support in coalition. Which support Biden is now doing. I do want to know what Obama and Biden did in that regard. The fact is, enough wasn’t being done when it was needed at a time when we had the intelligence to know the obvious of Russian intent. It’s stupid to expect someone to go back and review all posting to find the right thread and post to give you what you ask of me.

Wherever a nation’s sovereignty is being threatened, which would include buildup of border forces, is where our attention should be. Georgia was invaded by Russia and still some territory is occupied, even though a “peace” agreement was made, incl Russia as a signor. Any former Russian territory is on Putin’s list. The vision of Putin to get back what territories were once of Russia has been well publicized for yrs. That’s not “hindsight”. That Russia is the #1 aggressor threat, by military intervention, to the world is not hindsight. That’s been known for yrs. That Russia is the most aggressive nation against democracy in the world is not hindsight. We, being the world, especially the US and Europe, know all this. “In hindsight” is an excuse for not having a vision of the obvious, incl an understanding of history. I expect my leaders to have that vision and do what is right. Another hotspot is in the US with the Rep/cons attack on American democracy.

I've already been through Crimea with justabubba. He accepts Moscow's rationale and refuses to accept the facts.

Hell, I once lived about 30 miles northeast of Yalta for about a year. There were few ethnic problems in Crimea until Russian GRU agents showed up.

You remember the Russian spy Maria Butina who got very close to the NRA and GOP politicians? She did some time in prison here and then was deported back to Russia.

Well, in 2013 she was giving pro-Russia speeches at rally's in Crimea arranged by the GRU.

 

[bluesmoke]

I've already been through Crimea with justabubba. He accepts Moscow's rationale and refuses to accept the facts.

Hell, I once lived about 30 miles northeast of Yalta for about a year. There were few ethnic problems in Crimea until Russian GRU agents showed up.

You remember the Russian spy Maria Butina who got very close to the NRA and GOP politicians? She did some time in prison here and then was deported back to Russia.

Well, in 2013 she was giving pro-Russia speeches at rally's in Crimea arranged by the GRU.

Putin, IMO, is using the high % of Russians and separatists in E. Ukraine as if an invitation to invasion. He did the same thing in Crimea, where the % of Russians was much higher. That didn't work in Georgia where there are few Russians. Finland has a tiny % Russian. Even Belarus, though sympathetic to Russia, has a small % Russian. Putin is all about nationalism to support his territorial ambition. He has run out of soft targets, now being eastern Ukraine.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Putin, IMO, is using the high % of Russians and separatists in E. Ukraine as if an invitation to invasion. He did the same thing in Crimea, where the % of Russians was much higher. That didn't work in Georgia where there are few Russians. Finland has a tiny % Russian. Even Belarus, though sympathetic to Russia, has a small % Russian. Putin is all about nationalism to support his territorial ambition. He has run out of soft targets, now being eastern Ukraine.

That said, Putin's forces in Russian speaking cities such as Kharkiv, Mariupol, Melitopol, Kherson, and Kyiv (50/50) are discovering that these Ukrainian citizrns don't want Russian hegemony.

Russian speaking citizens in Ukraine are fighting right alongside the army to expel the Russian invaders.

If all Russian forces would depart from the occupied portions of eastern Ukraine's Luhansk/Donetsk oblasts, the same would hold true.

 

[Gladiator]

"Russian President Vladimir Putin has been accused of using white phosphorus bombs on Ukrainian civilians, an illegal weapon that could cause "horrific injuries to people".

Rumours have circulated online overnight with Ukrainian First Deputy Minister of Education and Science Inna Sovsun saying it's a "crime against humanity", however such claims haven't been verified."

What is white phosphorus? The 'horrific' weapon Putin is accused of using

Use of the weapon is considered a 'war crime'. Find out what it does and how it has been allegedly used against Ukraine.

au.news.yahoo.com

Does Putin intentionally kill children, as for cleansing Russia of Ukranians?


//

 

[Rogue Valley]

Does Putin intentionally kill children, as for cleansing Russia of Ukranians?

Putin has no regard for civilians, and he does target them to increase pressure on the Zelenskyy government to accept his cease-fire terms.

 

[multivita-man]

Putin has no regard for civilians, and he does target them to increase pressure on the Zelenskyy government to accept his cease-fire terms.

This ^

Putin has an old world view of war: inflict as much pain and misery as one can and break the will of people to resist. He did this in Grozny 20 years ago.

He's doing this, as you say, to get Ukraine to accept his cease-fire terms, and also to intimidate NATO countries.

 

[bluesmoke]

That said, Putin's forces in Russian speaking cities such as Kharkiv, Mariupol, Melitopol, Kherson, and Kyiv (50/50) are discovering that these Ukrainian citizrns don't want Russian hegemony.

Russian speaking citizens in Ukraine are fighting right alongside the army to expel the Russian invaders.

If all Russian forces would depart from the occupied portions of eastern Ukraine's Luhansk/Donetsk oblasts, the same would hold true.

Yup. Putin thought that E. Ukraine, and especially those cities you mention, met his soft-target template. Putin, though, ran into a tipping point that did not favor his plan. The US and Europe coalesced, finally, against Putin. In addition, countries without any variation of MDA are making agreements to mutual military defense if attacked by Russia, only. Finland and Sweden, for example.

 

[nvflash]

This ^

Putin has an old world view of war: inflict as much pain and misery as one can and break the will of people to resist. He did this in Grozny 20 years ago.

He's doing this, as you say, to get Ukraine to accept his cease-fire terms, and also to intimidate NATO countries.

I agree, Putin's tactic is to make the "enemy" hate war more than they hate Russian rule. In the end, that is how you break any nation in warfare, if you can succeed in doing it. It tends to work well in places that put a high value on human life AND where people have been use to a certain amount of the conveniences of modern life.

I often say people will trade liberty for convenience.

Tho I must disagree, NATO is not intimidated, and this Russian shit show of an invasion just stands to show how inept the Russian military is to NATO's combined forces. So while, maybe, I will grant you that may have been one of Putin's goals, it isn't working out that way. I think Putin is trying to intimidate other nations that have not yet joined NATO, with the threat they are next, and that likely is have some of his desired effects.

 

[bluesmoke]

then your stated position is it is unrealistic to expect you to be prescient but it is quite acceptable for you to expect world leaders to be prescient regarding future international crises

please advise what i got wrong in the above reply

I already told you there is nothing prescient about what I said. I never said that I expect world leaders to be prescient. Now you're asking a question to avoid the facts of what I said, while not answering my question, posed before yours, nor providing anything to refute what I said. You're giving the runaround. See you on another thread. You're not debating forthrightly.

 

[snakestretcher]

This ^

Putin has an old world view of war: inflict as much pain and misery as one can and break the will of people to resist. He did this in Grozny 20 years ago.

He's doing this, as you say, to get Ukraine to accept his cease-fire terms, and also to intimidate NATO countries.

Pound a nation into rubble, displace millions and occupy a country where almost everyone who hasn't already gone, hates you. Sheer genius!

 

[multivita-man]

Pound a nation into rubble, displace millions and occupy a country where almost everyone who hasn't already gone, hates you. Sheer genius!

The part I don't get is why he invaded all of Ukraine. He could have simply occupied more of the Donbas while holding Crimea, and from that point he could have dared Ukraine to fight him. The only explanation I can think of is that he disastrously miscalculated not only the political situation in Ukraine but also the strength of his own military - things you really can't afford to misjudge if you intend to occupy a foreign country for any length of time.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The part I don't get is why he invaded all of Ukraine. He could have simply occupied more of the Donbas while holding Crimea, and from that point he could have dared Ukraine to fight him. The only explanation I can think of is that he disastrously miscalculated not only the political situation in Ukraine but also the strength of his own military - things you really can't afford to misjudge if you intend to occupy a foreign country for any length of time.

When Putin invaded Crimea/Donbas in 2014, Ukraine only had 16,000 poorly trained active soldiers in the entire country. It was a cakewalk.

Perhaps he thought this invasion would be a reprise of 2014?

 

[multivita-man]

When Putin invaded Crimea/Donbas in 2014, Ukraine only had 16,000 poorly trained active soldiers in the entire country. It was a cakewalk.

Perhaps he thought this invasion would be a reprise of 2014?

Good point - I hadn't realized that Ukraine had so few troops at that time, but that must have factored in his calculations.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Good point - I hadn't realized that Ukraine had so few troops at that time, but that must have factored in his calculations.

The pro-Russia president, Viktor Yanukovych, his pro-Russia majority in Parliament, and their cronies in the Ukraine General Staff, failed to properly fund the UA and embezzled/stole what was left.

This changed when Petro Poroshenko won the 2014 presidential election. The UA is the fighting force it is today largely due to the efforts of Poroshenko.

 

[bluesmoke]

Pound a nation into rubble, displace millions and occupy a country where almost everyone who hasn't already gone, hates you. Sheer genius!

Now you're parroting Trump. Heh-heh.