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Hypothetical Situation: Textbooks and Middle Name

Vote based on Hypotheticals in post


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Zyphlin

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Alright, three Hypothetical situations, lets put it all out there.

Hypothetical 1: A school history text book is being created. Every President is listed by his full legal name whenever mentioned, both in the reading and in the index that lists all the Presidents and their number/picture. Should "Barack Hussein Obama" be used wherever he's mentioned or not?


Hypothetical 2: A school history text book is being created. Every President is listed only by his chosen commonly used name wherever mentioned, both in the reading and in the index that lists all Presidents and their number/picture. Should "Barack Hussein Obama" be used wherever he's mentioned or not?


Hypothetical 3: A school history text book is being created. Every President is listed with his full legal name in the index of Presidents, however within the text is refered to by thier commonly used name. Should "Barack Hussein Obama" be used in the index? Should it be used in the text?


For the sake of this thread "Commonly used name" is the name the President generally goes by himself, and can include shortened names (Bill instead of William) and initials (FDR, JFK, LBJ).
 

Ikari

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Is something strange going down with Obama in texts books? The answer to the hypothetical seems rather clear. Whatever the standard the book is using for all President's names is what Obama is referred to as.
 

Apocalypse

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Is something strange going down with Obama in texts books? The answer to the hypothetical seems rather clear. Whatever the standard the book is using for all President's names is what Obama is referred to as.
Yeah I didn't get it as well.
There is only one available answer, and you've just given it.
 

rivrrat

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I'm pretty confused by the question. Seems to be a no-brainer. Why would we treat Obama differently than other presidents in the textbooks?
 

Zyphlin

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Apparently a text book in Texas was going to use his middle name throughout it. There was some disagreements on this. There's no concrete information as to how other presidents were refered to, save for peoples memories of schools and a general academic standard for referencing people, so thus the three potential hypotheticals.

Essentially I'm curious if the uproar is for uproars sake because people regarding the texas situation just don't know what the text book status is for other Presidents so are just arguing based on their assumption which may be different than others, or if there are people on either side that just want it used no matter what or just don't want it used no matter what.
 

Redress

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The answer to the hypotheticals is, as every one pointed out, obvious. In the Texas thing you point out, it depends on which of the scenarios it is.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Hey, Hussein's the boys' middle name.

That's it.

It's wonderful watching the Propaganda Meister Democrats getting their knickers in a wad over the idea that someone might actually put the first half-black president's full name in an American history textbook.

It's just more evidence of the life of lies and denial they lead, and conclusive proof that they should not be allowed within 20000 feet of any school, pre-school, playground, or public park.
 

Zyphlin

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Hey, Hussein's the boys' middle name.

That's it.

It's wonderful watching the Propaganda Meister Democrats getting their knickers in a wad over the idea that someone might actually put the first half-black president's full name in an American history textbook.

It's just more evidence of the life of lies and denial they lead, and conclusive proof that they should not be allowed within 20000 feet of any school, pre-school, playground, or public park.

See, here's the thing...

JUST watching the media, both "conservative" and "liberal", on one hand it seems like Democrats are upset that his full name would be in a text book while Conservatives want it in there no matter what.

At least from what little I can tell from here, completely unscientifically, thus far the liberals and conservatives at DP are being unanimous. Treat Obama like every other President.

Really hoping to see more people vote. Its nice clearing up misconceptions, potentially on both sides.
 

tacomancer

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Hey, Hussein's the boys' middle name.

That's it.

It's wonderful watching the Propaganda Meister Democrats getting their knickers in a wad over the idea that someone might actually put the first half-black president's full name in an American history textbook.

It's just more evidence of the life of lies and denial they lead, and conclusive proof that they should not be allowed within 20000 feet of any school, pre-school, playground, or public park.

The reason is because something that we don't like to talk about in polite company. Liberals fear that the word hussein, being middle eastern, can be used in identity politics.
 

Mell

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Is something strange going down with Obama in texts books? The answer to the hypothetical seems rather clear. Whatever the standard the book is using for all President's names is what Obama is referred to as.

I think, what the opening poster is asking is whether Barack Obama or Barack Hussein Obamas mother should also be recognised in the text book name, as one of the contributers to his genetic make up and/or her involvement in his parenting.

This whole naming convention that was created by the ancient Romans was designed to remove or give identity and importance to those who were considered important in Roman society. The more 'important' citizens were given more of a name. Often, in ancient Rome, all the daugthers of a family even had the same first name, with the fathers sir name as the second name.

Umm! I just read that Hussein is not his mothers name. It is simply one of his first namea. I dont think it matters what text books call him, as long at they call him what he wants to be called. Apparently, there is contraversy about the name Hussein, as it is apparently associated with Islam. Well, as far as I can see, it is just a name. I am not a fan of any religion, but I dont think it matters if somebody has the same name as a character in the bible, for example.

I personally would like to see an end to the naming convention which gives more status to males altogether, but ending it would be as complicated as ending Christmas being called Christmas. Even many of those who abhorr Christianity call it Christmas.

I am not going to choose one of the poll options, because I do not know what should be done.
 

jamesrage

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I may have voted wrong. I believe that a President's full legal name should be used everywhere in the book and there should be little notes as to what he was commonly called.
 

molten_dragon

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List his name in the same manner that every other president's name is listed.
 

soccerboy22

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I remember that in my textbooks it was President first and last name. Only in the few cases like FDR or JFK were the middle name used. That or to tell the difference between Bush I and Bush II. But as a student all I would want is consistency out of the textbook. If every president's middle name is included then include Obama's.
 

MyOwnDrum

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Just do the same for him as everyone else, the same pattern of usage. I think it's stupid when people emphasize his middle name.

We gave one of our boys the middle name of Stanley to honor my father, who is actually a jerk and the name is awful. I later regretted it, and told the boy that if he ever wanted to have it changed I'd pay. He never took me up on it, but he did choose to use his grandmother's maiden name of Knight as his middle name for his graduation ceremony.
 

MyOwnDrum

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Point being, people do all sorts of dumb things for middle names...
 

Psychoclown

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Obama's name should follow the same naming conventions as the other Presidents. There is nothing more idiotic than folks who think they can score political points by saying Barak HUSSIEN Obama. Oooh, scary! His middle name sounds Middle Eastern and even is the same as the last name of an infamous dictator! Obama must be teh evilz! :doh
 

Kali

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Apparently a text book in Texas was going to use his middle name throughout it. There was some disagreements on this. There's no concrete information as to how other presidents were refered to, save for peoples memories of schools and a general academic standard for referencing people, so thus the three potential hypotheticals.

Essentially I'm curious if the uproar is for uproars sake because people regarding the texas situation just don't know what the text book status is for other Presidents so are just arguing based on their assumption which may be different than others, or if there are people on either side that just want it used no matter what or just don't want it used no matter what.

Oh come on! The reason they wish to toss that in any chance they get is so the little kiddies will think he is an Evil Muslim:roll:
 

Caine

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I remember that in my textbooks it was President first and last name. Only in the few cases like FDR or JFK were the middle name used. That or to tell the difference between Bush I and Bush II. But as a student all I would want is consistency out of the textbook. If every president's middle name is included then include Obama's.

Dont forget, Lyndon B. Johnson was always Lyndon B. Johnson
 

Kali

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Hey, Hussein's the boys' middle name.

That's it.

It's wonderful watching the Propaganda Meister Democrats getting their knickers in a wad over the idea that someone might actually put the first half-black president's full name in an American history textbook.

It's just more evidence of the life of lies and denial they lead, and conclusive proof that they should not be allowed within 20000 feet of any school, pre-school, playground, or public park.

Boy? I bet you loved saying that!

Half-Black? It is really eating you up that you got your first Black Prez, right? Right;)

You really do not think the Dems. should be allowed near schools, playgrounds, etcs? Are you really trying to suggest that Democrats should be on same kind of level as pedophiles when it comes to school stuff:confused::shock::(
 

Zyphlin

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Oh come on! The reason they wish to toss that in any chance they get is so the little kiddies will think he is an Evil Muslim:roll:

Well apparently conservatives so far DON'T want it tossed in there to make kiddies think he is an Evil Muslim.

As well though, liberals so far DON'T want it kept out to "hide the truth" that his middle name is Hussein.

I'm really interested in a few of the birther's to vote though, and a certian vet.
 

tacomancer

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Well apparently conservatives so far DON'T want it tossed in there to make kiddies think he is an Evil Muslim.

As well though, liberals so far DON'T want it kept out to "hide the truth" that his middle name is Hussein.

I'm really interested in a few of the birther's to vote though, and a certian vet.

Personally I think what you have demonstrated in this thread is that people will change what they say when they are in being scrutinized. I really don't think there is much truth or honesty to be found here.

I wonder if you would have gotten different results if you had made the poll anonymous.
 

Zyphlin

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It'd be interesting, but I don't actually think so.

In two parts really...

One, I really do think that most that talk about the name in the text book thing are doing it with a certian preconcieved notion of what's "normal" for a text book that fits their preconcieved notion of what they want, even if its a subconsious assumption. By that I mean either consiously or subconsiously I think some Conservatives are assuming books have the presidents full names in them so they want Obama's in and think that's okay and that some Liberals are assuming the books have the President's common names in them so they don't want it.

I do think the majority of people on both sides would have no issue with consistancy and when faced with that directly would say such. The issue is so often when these things are discussed that bit of context isn't given so its left to everyones own internal assumptions through their consious or subconsious mind.

I also think there's probably people, on both sides, that may end up seeing this...knowing they would vote differently...and avoid it, I do give you that. Maybe I should've done anonymous and could always try a sister poll to this out soon and see how it turns up.
 

tacomancer

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It'd be interesting, but I don't actually think so.

In two parts really...

One, I really do think that most that talk about the name in the text book thing are doing it with a certian preconcieved notion of what's "normal" for a text book that fits their preconcieved notion of what they want, even if its a subconsious assumption. By that I mean either consiously or subconsiously I think some Conservatives are assuming books have the presidents full names in them so they want Obama's in and think that's okay and that some Liberals are assuming the books have the President's common names in them so they don't want it.

I do think the majority of people on both sides would have no issue with consistancy and when faced with that directly would say such. The issue is so often when these things are discussed that bit of context isn't given so its left to everyones own internal assumptions through their consious or subconsious mind.

Fair enough. I had no considered the possibility that in a person's respective circle they use different phrasings making normal different between groups. In reassessing, I may have made the same mistake I suspected others of making. My own (not so much political but language) bias I guess.

I also think there's probably people, on both sides, that may end up seeing this...knowing they would vote differently...and avoid it, I do give you that. Maybe I should've done anonymous and could always try a sister poll to this out soon and see how it turns up.

It would be interesting to see if there was a difference.
 
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FilmFestGuy

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The reason is because something that we don't like to talk about in polite company. Liberals fear that the word hussein, being middle eastern, can be used in identity politics.

No, that's not it at all.

If you use the complete name everywhere, then use the complete name everywhere. If you use first and last name, use first and last name.

Most conservatives who use his middle name use it only to point out that it doesn't sound typically American. So it's conservatives playing identity politics.

It's his middle name and should be used if that's the standard. He used it in his inauguration as all presidents before him. Utterly appropriate.
 

tacomancer

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No, that's not it at all.

If you use the complete name everywhere, then use the complete name everywhere. If you use first and last name, use first and last name.

Most conservatives who use his middle name use it only to point out that it doesn't sound typically American. So it's conservatives playing identity politics.

It's his middle name and should be used if that's the standard. He used it in his inauguration as all presidents before him. Utterly appropriate.

You said what I was trying to say. I think you did it better though.
 
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