Hypocrites!

[Fantasea]

Why not have the right to choose??

If you're against it fine but don't interfere like Bush did!

The 'Right to choose' is not LAW it is a right of passage of a human...

Lets not turn into religious fundamentalists? haha

Every abortion results in the death of a living human child. That's pure and simple secular biology. There's nothing religious about that, is there?

 

[Fantasea]

Yes, because a fictional television show has so much to do with real life.

What's even more amusing is the hypocracy of so called "Christian" pro-lifers who have no problem with the death penalty.

My preference in capital cases is life without parole.

That being said, I'd appreciate your explanation of the moral equivilency of summarily taking the life of a child in the womb, whose only offense is showing up at an inopportune time, and the execution by the state of an adult, usually a decade or more after he has been duly tried, convicted, and sentenced to death for a capital crime.

About the only similarity is that both have received the death penalty.

 

[vergiss]

Every abortion results in the death of a living human child. That's pure and simple secular biology. There's nothing religious about that, is there?

Really? Someone was finally able to define what "living" is?

Erm, blogger31? Sit down before you hurt yourself. Show me where I said I was talking about Imudman specifically regarding self-righteous Christians and the death penalty before you rant about foot-in-mouth syndrome. By the way, I'm not a "he".

Fantasea - but using the argument of pro-lifers, isn't all life sacred? Regardless if they've been convicted of murder or not? Besides, they've executed innocents before.

 

[IndiConservative]

<Quote>Really? Someone was finally able to define what "living" is?<Quote>

Yes they did along time ago in fact and it still holds true today.

Cell - The smallest structural unit of an ORGANISM that is capable of independent functioning, consisting of one or more nuclei, cytoplasm, and various organelles, all surrounded by a semipermeable cell membrane.

Organism- An individual form of LIFE, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.

http://sun.menloschool.org/~birchler/cells/animals/nucleus/

You as a naysayer would point out that skins,organ and others cells would be murder as well.
Unfortunatly they are not humans they are part of humans.
A Zygote hower is the smallest of all humans which takes its form as a cell.

Even then you will retreat behind the lines of "It's a womens choice"
Indeed it is but the choice was made at the point of procreation (Sex).
Therefor it justifies as murder on the fact is it human and it is living.

We are talking about consensual sex.
Now redraw your lines again and hide behind more misinformation.
I have said it before and will say it again if you do not want to get pregnant do not have sex.

 

[vergiss]

Cell - The smallest structural unit of an ORGANISM that is capable of independent functioning, consisting of one or more nuclei, cytoplasm, and various organelles, all surrounded by a semipermeable cell membrane.

You just shot yourself in the foot. A zygote is hardly capable of independent functioning.

Why would I need misinformation when your own arguments help my side of the debate?

 

[clearview]

Anyone else think it's just a bit hypocritical of these liberals that are for animal rights, ("Oh, oh, you can't hurt the defenseless little animals") to be for abortion of Human Babies?!?!
This has been stuck in my mind since I heard someone bad-mouthing Bill O'Reilly (who's ok in my book, don't love him, don't hate him), for being OK with the Pit Bull ban in several states. I said "Bill O'Reilly's ok, I don't agree with him on this issue, but I do on many others."
They replied with "any man who thinks it's OK to take away my "right" to choose (referring to abortion) will never be on my good list....Yet, she was there to voice her opinion against the "murder" of puppies.....So it's OK to kill unborn Human Babies, but not unborn puppies? I cannot follow this logic, someone please enlighten me!

Some things just don't follow logic. People have different values. On the flip side, there are people out there who find no problem abusing or killing animals because they are not human, yet how human is someone who would kill an animal? Nazi's attempted to exterminate entire populations of jews, gypsies, Russians, or anyone else that didn't fit their view of those worthy enough to live, with the excuse the races they killed were not "human." The same with the KKK in the south.. it's okay to kill blacks, because they're not really human. I find it interesting so many of these men had and have no problem raping so many of those "unhuman" women. I guess the penis differs on that one.

The same people who rally against a person's right to privacy and safe medical treatment to end a pregnancy have no problem advocating for the death penalty. Killing is killing, isn't it? Well, not really. There's justifiable homicide, insanity, and crimes of passion, plus we rate penalties in degrees depending on intent and premeditation. You can shoot and kill someone in self-defense, and in fact, the NRA has spent millions lobbying for your "right" to do so, even though we employ a huge police force who are armed and trained to protect us.

There is no clear answer. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe. I just won't hold YOU to MY beliefs, and don't want you holding me to yours.

As for O'Reilly... he's an egotistical hypocritical hack. I jumped on his bandwagon for a while until I discovered how uncaring, disrespectful, dishonest, self-serving, and downright sleazy the pig is. Other people are catching on as well, since his ratings continue to fall into the toilet. If you want the truth, tune into Air America radio sometime.

 

[clearview]

My preference in capital cases is life without parole.

That being said, I'd appreciate your explanation of the moral equivilency of summarily taking the life of a child in the womb, whose only offense is showing up at an inopportune time, and the execution by the state of an adult, usually a decade or more after he has been duly tried, convicted, and sentenced to death for a capital crime.

About the only similarity is that both have received the death penalty.

The arguments I've heard and read from conservatives against reproductive rights at least partly centers around being against it because they view the parents (for lack of a better term) as irresponsible self-centered people not wanting to be bothered by the inconvenience of the results of their actions. As if the decision to consider an abortion is taken lightly, and the only reason you'd decide to have one is because you are morally inferior to someone who chooses to continue a pregnancy. Frankly I find it extremely insulting.

Does it make you feel better to think of these people as less than yourself, because we all KNOW any person of quality would naturally choose life? Do you also believe everyone on public assistance is there to screw the system so they can continue to have crack babies and prostitute themselves for drugs? In a state like Minnesota for instance, over 80% of the people on welfare are all elderly and in nursing homes, yet the Republican governor tried to paint public assistance as nothing more than a gravy train for people not wanting to work.

The death penalty is different? I thought killing is killing, and "vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord"... no? State sanctioned killing is different because we went through a legal process? Well sure, an execution is okay because it's a criminal's life being taken, and they're BAD, so they deserve it, and if we find out later they were innocent, well "oops" they shouldn't have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, and hey, the system isn't perfect. Should each woman considering an abortion go in front of a jury of her peers? Yay and nay based on the beliefs of twelve other people?

 

[Alex]

Cell - The smallest structural unit of an ORGANISM that is capable of independent functioning, consisting of one or more nuclei, cytoplasm, and various organelles, all surrounded by a semipermeable cell membrane.

Organism- An individual form of LIFE, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.

http://sun.menloschool.org/~birchler/cells/animals/nucleus/

You as a naysayer would point out that skins,organ and others cells would be murder as well.
Unfortunatly they are not humans they are part of humans.
A Zygote hower is the smallest of all humans which takes its form as a cell.

Even then you will retreat behind the lines of "It's a womens choice"
Indeed it is but the choice was made at the point of procreation (Sex).
Therefor it justifies as murder on the fact is it human and it is living.

We are talking about consensual sex.
Now redraw your lines again and hide behind more misinformation.
I have said it before and will say it again if you do not want to get pregnant do not have sex.

Neither a zygote or a fetus is capable of independent function. They are completely dependent on the woman to survive.

 

[ILikeDubyah]

And being that a fetus is completely dependant on the woman to survive, It would stand to reason that if she were to abort the fetus, she's be charged with murder.
Women that give birth to a baby in their bathroom, and then drown it minutes later in the bathtub are tried for murder, so why does this not hold true for 20 minutes, 3 months, 6 months...etc. prior to the birth. (I'm against the death penalty, too, just in case you were wondering. I feel it's much more fitting to have someone who commits a crime live out their life in a cell, confronted everyday with what they've done....it's a shame that they don't get confronted with it on a daily basis though.)
Anyhow, back on topic....I just want to know how a lib can be an "Animal Rights Activist", a rabid one, even, and STILL believe that killing a fetus isn't wrong. There is NO other member of the animal kingdom that aborts their pregnancies by choice...and that's because we have free will, I guess....So I guess this just means that some of humans are failing the test! (The test being making the RIGHT choices, not just the choice that suits you.

 

[vergiss]

Actually, bonoboe chimps have been known to eat particular plants to induce miscarriage. Sorry.

 

[ILikeDubyah]

And hamsters, tigers, etc... eat their young....can you PROVE that the reason they do these things is because they don't want the hassle of having a child???

 

[vergiss]

Can you prove that it's not?

 

[ILikeDubyah]

Pretty much....we're the only animal on this Earth with free will. All other animals are driven my instinct. Being that these specise are still around, it's pretty safe to say that it's not ther CHOICE to do these things, it's instinct....probably caused by something screwed up in their brains.....hmmmm drawing parallels....

 

[ILikeDubyah]

I meant "their" instinct

 

[vergiss]

...

Right... *raises eyebrow*

 

[ILikeDubyah]

witty retort to the question at hand...:mrgreen:

 

[vergiss]

I'm still trying to figure out what you're on about.

 

[ILikeDubyah]

Anyhow, back on topic....I just want to know how a lib can be an "Animal Rights Activist", a rabid one even, and STILL believe that killing a fetus isn't wrong.

"I won't eat meat, because it kills poor defenseless animals, or wear makeup because they test it on bunnies, but PLEASE rip this growing fetus outta me!"

 

[ProChoiceDanielle]

I'm still trying to figure out what you're on about.

******* people off? He sounds like an internet troll.

 

[ILikeDubyah]

Why is it that when you try to get an answer to a serious question, people opposing whatever your viewpoint happens to be lable you a "troll"? Sore, I use ALOT of sarcasm & jest.....but it gets the point across....unless you get an over-reaction like that last post. These forums are for asking questions & debating issues....have I done anything other than that?

 

[CattyCarissa]

Vergiss I just wonder if u ever plan to get pregnant or have u ever had any children because u seem not to have that motherly instinct.

 

[vergiss]

Vergiss I just wonder if u ever plan to get pregnant or have u ever had any children because u seem not to have that motherly instinct.

Why? Because I don't intend on breeding at 17? :lol:

 

[CattyCarissa]

Vergiss u just seem self centered that u dont care about anyone else's life but your own. Thats selfish thats why I said u dont have a motherly instinct.

 

[CattyCarissa]

I just am saying that I think she is too worried what people will think of her (like she said "her boyfriend would go AWOL, her parents & her family would think she's a slut" thats her words not mine) instead what her consequences are from her actions. She needs to think for herself.

 

[CattyCarissa]

Well then she doesnt need to be having sex then if she isnt responsible for her own actions & if she is unable to take care of herself.