humanistic approaches to islam (1 Viewer)

[Medusa]

The Bektashi Order (Turkish: Bektaşi Tarikatı), or the ideology of Bektashism (Turkish: Bektaşilik), is an Islamic Sufi order (tariqat) founded in the 13th century by the Persian[1][2][3][4] Wali (saint) Haji Bektash Veli. The order is particularly found throughout Anatolia and the Balkans.

Bektashism places much emphasis on the concept of Wahdat-ul-Wujood وحدة الوجود, the "Unity of Being" that was formulated by Ibn Arabi. This has often been erroneously labeled by Westerners as pantheism, although it is a concept closer to panentheism.

In keeping with the central belief of Wahdat-ul-Wujood the Bektashi see reality contained in Haqq-Muhammad-Ali, a single unified entity. Bektashi do not consider this a form of trinity. There are many other practices and ceremonies that share similarity with other faiths, such as a ritual meal (muhabbet) and yearly confession of sins to a baba (magfirat-i zunub مغفرة الذنوب). Bektashis base their practices and rituals on their non-orthodox and mystical interpretation and understanding of the Quran and the prophetic practice (Sunnah). They have no written doctrine specific to them, thus rules and rituals may differ depending on under whose influence one has been taught. Bektashis generally revere Sufi mystics outside of their own order, such as Ibn Arabi, Al-Ghazali and Jelalludin Rumi who are close in spirit to them.

Bektashis hold that the Quran has two levels of meaning: an outer (zahir ظاهر) and an inner (batin باطن). They hold the latter to be superior and eternal and this is reflected in their understanding of both the universe and humanity (This view can also be found in Ismailism—see Batiniyya).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi

 

[Medusa]

alevism

Alevism (Alevîlik) is a religious group combining Anatolian folk Shi'ism with Sufi elements such as those of the Bektashi tariqa. Believers live almost entirely in Turkey, with minorities in Bulgaria, Cyprus, Crimea, Greece, Tatarstan and the Turkish Diaspora. Alevis are among larger Turkish, Turkmen, Tatar, Azeri, Zaza and Kurdish sub-ethnic communities.

Alevism is also a group identity which is variously interpreted as cultural (emphasizing special traditions of poetry, music and dance), humanistic and/or political - whether leftist or Kemalist.

Beliefs
Zulfiqar, a stylized representation of the sword of Ali.

Alevi beliefs are hard to define, since Aleviness is a diverse movement without any central authority, and its boundaries with other groups are poorly demarcated. Many teachings are based on an orally transmitted tradition which has generally been kept secret from outsiders (but is now widely accessible).

The basis for Aleviness's most distinctive beliefs is found in the Buyruks (compiled writings and dialogues of Sheikh Safi-ad-din Ardabili (eponym of the Safavi order), Ja'far al-Sadiq (the Sixth Imam), and other worthies). Also included are hymns (nefes) by figures such as Shah Ismail or Pir Sultan Abdal, stories of Hajji Bektash and other lore.



The central Alevi communal worship service is the cem or cemevi. The ceremony's supposed prototype is the Prophet Muhammad's nocturnal ascent into heaven, where he beheld a gathering of forty saints (Kırklar Meclisi), and the Divine Reality made manifest in their leader, Ali.

During the cem ceremony the Aşık plays the Baglama whilst singing spiritual songs, some of which are centuries old and well known amongst Alevis. Every song, called a Nefes has spiritual meaning and aims to teach the participants important lessons. One such song goes thus:

"Learn from your mistakes and be knowledgeable,
Don't look for faults in others,
Look at 73 different people in the same way,
God loves and created them all, so don't say anything against them."

A family of ritual dances characterized by turning and swirling, is an inseparable part of any cem. Semah is performed by men and women together, to the accompaniment of the bağlama. The dances symbolize (for example) the revolution of the planets around the Sun (by man and woman turning in circles), and the putting off of one’s self and uniting with God.

The Rite of Integration (görgü cemi) is a complex ritual occasion in which a variety of tasks are allotted to incumbents bound together by extrafamilial brotherhood (musahiplik), who undertake a dramatization of unity and integration under the direction of the spiritual leader (dede).

The love of the creator for the created and vice versa is symbolised in the Cem ceremony by the use of fruit juice and/or red wine [Dem] which represents the intoxication of the lover in the beloved. During the ceremony is Dem one of the twelve duties of the participants. (see above)

At the closing of the cem ceremony the Dede who leads the ceremony engages the participants in a discussion, this discussion is called a sohbet.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi

 

[Surtr]

Sounds similar to Sufism.

 

[Ikari]

Many religious folk claim their books can have multiple interpretations and that their interpretation is the best. Nothing new. Theists will grasp at anything to lend legitimacy to their delusions.

 

[Medusa]

Many religious folk claim their books can have multiple interpretations and that their interpretation is the best. Nothing new. Theists will grasp at anything to lend legitimacy to their delusions.

l am more like deistic muslim and dont believe in any sect either ikari

but isnt it fine if we consider such humanistic interpretations ?

 

[Ikari]

l am more like deistic muslim and dont believe in any sect either ikari

but isnt it fine if we consider such humanistic interpretations ?

People are free to consider anything they want. But framed within the construct of religion, I will doubt the "good intentions".

 

[Medusa]

People are free to consider anything they want. But framed within the construct of religion, I will doubt the "good intentions".

if you read what l posted again ,you would understand teh good intention

alevi people have always suffered from prejudice ignorance and hate shown towards them by bigots

they are the gays of islam

 

[Ikari]

if you read what l posted again ,you would understand teh good intention

alevi people have always suffered from prejudice ignorance and hate shown towards them by bigots

they are the gays of islam

And if you read what I posted, you would understand that I doubt those "good intentions". Religion only looks to expand its power and money and influence. They say nice things, but only to get people in the door.

 

[Medusa]

And if you read what I posted, you would understand that I doubt those "good intentions". Religion only looks to expand its power and money and influence. They say nice things, but only to get people in the door.

alevism doesnt support capitalist movements

 

[Ikari]

alevism doesnt support capitalist movements

Not yet.

 

[Medusa]

Not yet.

not yet how ?

their philosophie differs from all other sunni sects in many aspects

and l dont think they will vote any rightist party even if they gain enough power

 

[Ikari]

not yet how ?

their philosophie differs from all other sunni sects in many aspects

and l dont think they will vote any rightist party even if they gain enough power

I'm sure they say a lot of different things, but I've seen the song and dance before. Religion is manipulative and deceiving, when it gets in power it will move in ways to keep it.

 

[Paschendale]

I don't see how there can be a "humanistic approach" to a belief system centered around submission to a non-human entity. The basic presumption of Abrahamic religions is that there is something wrong with being human. It is an intrinsically not humanist set of beliefs.

 

[Medusa]

I don't see how there can be a "humanistic approach" to a belief system centered around submission to a non-human entity. The basic presumption of Abrahamic religions is that there is something wrong with being human. It is an intrinsically not humanist set of beliefs.

yes because human beings are not angels having no will

but humans are mostly idealized in far eastern philosophies

 

[Paschendale]

yes because human beings are not angels having no will

but humans are mostly idealized in far eastern philosophies

Which Islam is not. And really, no, there are basically no major religions that don't involve a focus on something better than humans (that turns out not to exist) and claims that being human is a flaw. It's within the Abrahamic tradition, and the Hindu tradition. Escape from corporeal form is the crux of all of those faiths. Less so in Judaism properly, but Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists want to stop being human and become something else. They want to be a soul in heaven or be one with nirvana.

Any faith that deals in a life after death that goes on forever is intrinsically anti-humanist. It places our existence as humans as strictly less than our spiritual existence afterwards. The only thing this life is for is to test us to decide what happens later. This is even true of many classical myths, including Egypt, Greece, and Norse. All that really matters to do what the gods (by way of the priests and divinely ordained kings) tell you what to do, and die properly after having devoted your life to benefiting someone in power. Do your duty to your caste and never question it, and you'll be rewarded after you die. Sacrifice your wealth and power to the church and never question it, and you'll be rewarded after you die.

The proposition that you spend your life earning your way into an afterlife is a cynical abuse of people, demanding their obedience and sacrifice and offering nothing in return. It is as anti-humanist a position as one can possibly take. This is done in the east and the west, and Islam is as guilty of it as any other religion. It tells people to sacrifice themselves in a bloody war so that Islam can conquer the world. Guess what that actually means. That means that the powerful people who rule the Islamic nations get to conquer the world. The poor die, and sacrifice themselves, so the rich and powerful can prosper, all on the illusory promise of living like those rich and powerful do, with a harem of virgins, when they die. All so that the rich and powerful can be rich and powerful here and not have to share that power. People die without ever having truly lived, and live their whole lives gladly in subjugation of their abusers, and then obtain none of these promised rewards.

Any belief system that centers on earning an afterlife via obedience and submission is intrinsically anti-humanist. It devalues our lives and our state as human beings, and cynically takes advantage of us in order to subjugate and abuse the powerless for the benefit of the powerful. This is as true of Islam is it is of Scientology.

 

[Medusa]

Which Islam is not. And really, no, there are basically no major religions that don't involve a focus on something better than humans (that turns out not to exist) and claims that being human is a flaw. It's within the Abrahamic tradition, and the Hindu tradition. Escape from corporeal form is the crux of all of those faiths. Less so in Judaism properly, but Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists want to stop being human and become something else. They want to be a soul in heaven or be one with nirvana.

Any faith that deals in a life after death that goes on forever is intrinsically anti-humanist. It places our existence as humans as strictly less than our spiritual existence afterwards. The only thing this life is for is to test us to decide what happens later. This is even true of many classical myths, including Egypt, Greece, and Norse. All that really matters to do what the gods (by way of the priests and divinely ordained kings) tell you what to do, and die properly after having devoted your life to benefiting someone in power. Do your duty to your caste and never question it, and you'll be rewarded after you die. Sacrifice your wealth and power to the church and never question it, and you'll be rewarded after you die.

The proposition that you spend your life earning your way into an afterlife is a cynical abuse of people, demanding their obedience and sacrifice and offering nothing in return. It is as anti-humanist a position as one can possibly take. This is done in the east and the west, and Islam is as guilty of it as any other religion. It tells people to sacrifice themselves in a bloody war so that Islam can conquer the world. Guess what that actually means. That means that the powerful people who rule the Islamic nations get to conquer the world. The poor die, and sacrifice themselves, so the rich and powerful can prosper, all on the illusory promise of living like those rich and powerful do, with a harem of virgins, when they die. All so that the rich and powerful can be rich and powerful here and not have to share that power. People die without ever having truly lived, and live their whole lives gladly in subjugation of their abusers, and then obtain none of these promised rewards.

Any belief system that centers on earning an afterlife via obedience and submission is intrinsically anti-humanist. It devalues our lives and our state as human beings, and cynically takes advantage of us in order to subjugate and abuse the powerless for the benefit of the powerful. This is as true of Islam is it is of Scientology.

you have smart ideas about many topics but l should correct some of your words
it is not the truth mentioned in kuran and teh passage l posted about alevism is certainly against any anti humanist movement . you may try reading it again pash .many so called jihad verses seen in kuran refer to the tribal wars made between arabian tribes during Muhammed .

l am not a very religious person nor l am too stupid to take everything literally written in holy books . l am just trying to correct some faults l usually see in many posts because this religion which is many people ignorant of has many believers around the world

many islamic rules ban pawnbroking which is called " banking " in today's world that means islam certainly opposes every kind of exploitation .

also (as in christianity ) charity ,alms and everything which the poor will benefit from are encouraged in Kuran and the ones who dont help the poor are condemned too..we can easily say the tax liability was already pointed out in kuran hundreds years ago to make the rich aware of their responsibilites towards teh others .modern taxation system is not different from what was ordered in islam .but of course the selfish human will always distort everything in holy books to take the advantage of having the ruling power . what islam or christianity advises the people to do is not governing the societies under capitalist or laisse fair based rules l think .

the responsility to share the wealth with the poor was turned to a charity culture by ruling powers in time in order to t keep the poor dependent on themselves so that the system can keep working as we see

ignorant and poor ones can be controlled better than the others

 

[Medusa]

YUNUS EMRE SELECTED POEMS II

God permeates the whole wide world.
Yet His truth is revealed to none.
You better seek Him in yourself.
You and He aren't apart-you're one.

The other world lies beyond sight.
Here on earth we must live upright.
Exile is torment, pain, and blight.
No one comes back once he is gone.

Come, let us all be friends for once,
Let us make life easy on us,
Let us be lovers and loved ones,
The earth shall be left to no one.

To you, what Yunus says is clear,
Its meaning is in your heart's ear:
We should all live the good life here,
Because nobody will live on.

 

[Medusa]

O God, if you would ever question me,
This would be my outright answer to Thee:

True, I sinned-brutalised my own being,
But what Have I done against you, my King?

Did I make myself? I'm your creation.
Why drench me in sin, Benevolent One?

I saw dungeons when I opened my eyes-
Teeming with devils, temptation and lies.

To shun death by Hunger, many a time,
In prison, I had to eat dirt and grime.

Did your dominion become any less?
Did I usurp any of your prowess?

Are you Hungry? Did I eat your ration?
Did I deprive you, cause your starvation?

Do you still seek revenge though you hilled me,
Since I rotted, since darkest soil filled me.

You built me a bridge to cross, thin as hair;
Out of your traps I'm to choose my own snare.

How can a man pass through a Hair-thin bridge?
He falls or clings on or flies off the ridge.

Your slaves build bridges for the public good,
Those who pass through it head for the Godhead.

I wish its firm foundation will hold sway
So those who cross it know it's the true way.

You set a scale to weigh deeds, for your aim
Is to hurl me into Hell's crackling flame.

A scale is suitable for a grocer,
For a small merchant or a jeweller.

Sin, though, is the vilest, filthiest vice,
The profit of those unworthy of Grace.

You can see everything, you know me-fine;
Then, why must you weigh all these deeds of mine?

No harm ever came from Yunus to you;
Open, secret-all things are in your view.

God Almighty, why all this talk, why must
We prattle about a handful of dust?









Knowledge should mean a full grasp of knowledge:
Knowledge means to know yourself, heart and soul.
If you have failed to understand yourself,
Then all of your reading has missed its call.

What is the purpose of reading those books?
So that Man can know the All-Powerful.
If you have read, but failed to understand,
Then your efforts are just a barren toil.

Don't boast of reading, mastering science
Or of all your prayers and obeisance.
If you don't identify Man as God,
All your learning is of no use at all.

The true meaning of the four holy books
Is found in the alphabet's first letter.
You talk about that first letter, preacher;
What is the meaning of that-could you tell?

Yunus Emre says to you, pharisee,
Make the holy pilgrimage if need be
A hundred times-but if you ask me,
The visit to a heart is best of all.

 

[German guy]

Hey Medusa, I agree with you.

A problem with much criticism and even bitterness against religion is because the advocates of this skepticism pick the worst examples of religion and believers (for good reason, because those are often the most widespread) and then assume every religion is like that. I disagree that every religion is like bigoted Christian extremism or conservative or fundamentalist Islam.

 

[Medusa]

 

[Canell]

Every religion has its exoteric and esoteric interpretations. eace