middleagedgamer
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Oh, what? You mean, China will put tariffs on American goods?Tariffs are a double edged sword, the economic damage caused by them tends to travel both ways. Not a very good option.
All we have to do is start buying from some country that has free elections, and independent media, and an independent body who evaluates the constitutionality of laws.No...
When tariffs are placed against china the cost of goods goes up, meaning we can afford less of their stuff. And they make alot of our stuff.
India would be a nice place to start.Who would be able to produce at the same price as china?
Numerous countries.At the same scale?
What honestly makes you think it will take five years for us to get settled into this new change?Without interrupting supply to our economy for half a decade?
I disagree. Look at Cuba. No other country, besides the United States, embargoes them, but because the United States - and ONLY the United States - embargoes them, they are on the verge of bankruptcy.But the suppliers of oppressive policies will find other countries who are driven by economic necessity.
we practically have a monopsony on international trade. We can buy from whoever we damn well plase.
I disagree. Look at Cuba. No other country, besides the United States, embargoes them, but because the United States - and ONLY the United States - embargoes them, they are on the verge of bankruptcy.
Then, perhaps you aren't looking in the right places.I have never heard or learned anything that implied such.
Show me how this recession is a direct result of tariffs against human rights, and I'll consent.I'm not aware of the economic details of this, but dozens of nations around the world are on the verge of bankruptcy...
Assuming that that article is true, it still would not convince me. The tariffs they speak of are protectionist tariffs, designed to protect American industry, rather than further the advancement of human rights, by means other than military force.
"Then, perhaps you aren't looking in the right places."
Where, exactly, do you go to school?Wowee I guess my international political economics teacher is failing me this semester.
Who would be able to produce at the same price as china? At the same scale? Without interrupting supply to our economy for half a decade?
China will stop buying our debt in response and maybe even call the debt they currently hold. Our entire economy crashes as a result, along with China's. The inevitable chaos in China results in even more repressive policies in order to maintain order. Meanwhile in the U.S., the collapse of the dollar and massive increase in the costs of goods seriously drives down the standard of living.
When I read about the human rights abuses in China, it feels like I'm reading a dystopian novel, like Nineteen Eighty-Four or somewhat.
But... it's not a novel. Novels are fiction! The human rights abuses in China are really happening!
The United States should impose tariffs on China, not to discourage Americans from importing goods (because it wouldn't apply to other nations, like Canada or France), but to discourage the trading of goods that come from the human rights-abusing China.
To revoke these tariffs, I'm not asking for much. I would be more than happy to support the revocation of these tariffs if just the following three things are met:
1. Genuinely free elections. Currently, the Chinese Constitution requires the government to adhere to the policies of the Communist Party. A single-party system is just as bad, politically, as a monopoly is bad, economically, and for the exact same reasons.
If the people of China actually want these totalitarian laws, then let the people speak for themselves. Give them free elections. Give them the opportunity to say no, and then, if they consciously choose not to say no, I will consent.
2. An independent media, owned by at least two different companies. The Chinese government owns - they don't just use totalitarian laws to control: They own, in the traditional sense - the nation's largest media conglomerate. This is the epitome of putting the fox in charge of the hen house. The people are shielded from ideas that might differ from those of the Communist Party. Turn the media over to the private sector, and give it to at least two (maybe more) privately-owned companies, so as to prevent a monopoly. These companies don't have to be American; heck, they can be Chinese for all I care! Just as long as they're private, and not controlled by totalitarian laws.
3. A truly independent committee for declaring laws unconstitutional. China allegedly has a body that is supposed to declare laws unconstitutional, but this is a puppet committee that is at the whim of the People's National Congress. I want a truly independent committee that, like the U.S. Supreme Court, is entitled to serve a life tenure, unless they break the law, and definitely not because the People's National Congress disagrees with their rulings. It doesn't have to be a "court," per se, so long as it's truly independent of undue PRC influence.
Follow these simple guidelines, and, you too, can keep from getting tariffs induced against under this new policy! A lot of the Middle East nations would probably avoid this tariff because, even though they abuse human rights (such as women's rights and gay rights), at least they have genuinely free elections, privately-owned media, and a separate body for hearing the constitutionality of laws. Most of the time, once a country does these three things, the remainder of human rights just falls into place.
These tariffs that I support would only be designed to encourage these three things to be done. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think they're all that radical, because the revocation of them come with modest requests.
Thoughts?
It doesn't matter if we alter the China/U.S. relationship now or wait. Eventually this marriage is going to fall apart. China is subsidizing U.S. debt so that the U.S. can buy its crap; the U.S. buys its crap because it's cheap and profitable for the parent companies. What people fail to understand is that consumerism of the past two generations is new and is a failing experiment. It has been extremely profitable for a select few but other than that, look at what it has done to our health, human rights, and the environment.
The system is going to change. We have a choice as to whether or not we want to facilitate the change or have it forced upon us. Either the environment will collapse (which it is on its way to doing), human rights and/or human health will decline to political proportions, or the dollar will become so worthless that we won't be able to buy goods anyway. Oh, and of course oil could run out too. The system is so delicate right now that I'm amazed it has survived this long.
Whatever happened to the prime directive?
They can stop buying our debt, others will. And they can call it in as much as they want, but what are they really going to do to get it?
The result would be that both countries would be severely hurt. However, America has the ability to restore its industry and manufacturing capabilities where as China would be left looking for another country to sell its crap to. America would recover faster than China and on the other side will have our industry returned as well. It's not a road we should really go down; but in the end while both countries would suffer; America stands well ahead in terms of recovery.
Well, I'm not sure that consumerism is a failing experiment, though I don't like it much. Consumerism isn't bad in and of itself. It's being a consumer on credit that's the boogey-man. I can't understand how you can equate consumerism with human health. Life spans are ever-increasing, I'd argue that assumption.
As to human rights violations being tied to consumerism, well, we've just got to stand by and let some of this happen. It's part of our own history, of course -- as is slavery. Who are we that we would deny others that same evolution?
If the Chinese call if their debt and we don't pay, do you seriously anyone is going to touch our debt right after we make it clear we don't honor our commitments?
That is irrelevant. Destroying the country is utterly moronic, watching China get hurt even more isn't going to make it better.
Our rise in health quality is not due to consumerism, but medical advancement. Arguably, our life spans would be more if we didn't have so many cheap, chemical-laden products lying around. The use of plastics on this scale is new as of the 1950's. Our unquenchable thurst for new stuff to buy has lead to environmental devastation, which directly affects us. Occurrence of cancer has increased to obscene levels in just 50 years. If our medicine is advancing it's because so many people are now ailing.
Multi-national corporations are the only true global citizens in the year 2010. The game is not the same anymore as it was during slavery. Economically we are much closer to complete globalization than we were during slavery. Everything you do in the United States has some relationship with dozens of other countries. Everything you buy is sourced from many nations. It is so interconnected now that it is virtually impossible to free yourself from the chain unless you grow your own food and try to construct your own self-sustaining livelihood.
The people in China are being kept down by their government. Their government has money for the military, and they use the military to hurt the people. And where does their money come from? Us. We share part of the responsibility no matter how distanced we like to pretend we are. Every rural peasant in China who is living in squallor and starvation is dying partially because we are addicted to shopping.
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