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Human nature, economics, and gun violence

KevinKohler

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Lots of talk about gun violence, these days. Got me to thinking (always dangerous), which got me to googling. Most gun violence is gang related, it seems. Most gang violence (almost all of it) is drug related.

When we hear about the kid shot on the corner in chicago by another kid, we just shrug it off as gang violence. Doesn't make the news. It's just a statistic. What we don't tend to think, is the underlying cause. The true story behind that shooting. Which is to say, that it was a hostile takeover of one business interest by a rival business interest. No, what we want is to debase those kids into something subhuman...gang members, thugs, degenerates...criminals. Of course, they ARE criminals. But in many areas, think about their options. Work a minimum wage job, and hope to get promoted to management? College? Not an option. Sure, get good grades, you say. And what if they all got good grades? Only so much scholarship to go around, eh? Meanwhile, there's a guy at the local hangout who is offering you more money than you've ever seen, and all you gotta do is sell some merchandise. When presented with those options, I'd say MOST folks would opt for the later. You're not FORCING drugs on anyone. They come to you, wanting it. That's on them, right? Personal responsibility, right? The problem comes when competition enters the market. Now, a normal, legal business...can't just go and gun down their competition. Because laws, and such. But if you're already operating outside the law...what good are they for you? So, a question I pose is, in the absence of the rule of law...would Walmart send armed soldiers to gun down Target employees and executives? I think they would. I think it's human nature to be selfish, greedy, and ruthless. If you doubt that, simply watch a group of toddlers unsupervised.

We can dehumanize gangs, and gang members all we want, but ultimately, they are simply rival businesses doing what most any other business would do if they were able...eliminating their competition to gain market share. Our vantage point is that of privilege, viewing events from afar, from a place of never having to make choices like those faced by inner city kids, from a place of having never had to make choices like the gang leaders themselves.

Our gun violence, most of it, at least, seems to me, is simply economic violence, of the most direct kind. Rival businesses competing for an expanded customer base. Do we truly believe more gun laws will address this? Do we truly believe more gun laws are the best way TO address this? We've wasted SO much money on the war on drugs, I sometimes wonder if, instead, we had simply spent that money on community investment...where would we be today?
 
The answer is legal heroin, free needles, and safe injection sites. Wherever this had been done, drug use plummets overnight.

People run to treatment and ask how they can become employable and productive members of society.
 
The answer is legal heroin, free needles, and safe injection sites. Wherever this had been done, drug use plummets overnight.

People run to treatment and ask how they can become employable and productive members of society.

Where has this happened ?
 
Where has this happened ?

Everywhere! Haven't you heard? It's called harm reduction, and it works everywhere!!

Just ask for Joe Biden's 'safe drug kit' and get your freeeeeeee crack pipe! You'll quit any day now!
 
Everywhere! Haven't you heard? It's called harm reduction, and it works everywhere!!

Just ask for Joe Biden's 'safe drug kit' and get your freeeeeeee crack pipe! You'll quit any day now!

Go on then, cite one place.
 
We've wasted SO much money on the war on drugs,

Castle doctine has wasted so many lives on the "War on Thievery". Americans need to risk their lives to mass shootings and assassins just so a few armed homeowners can shoot stubborn intruders.
 
As gun violence nears zero other types of violence will take its place. Call it Lemmi's First Theorem. I'm including poisonings as other types of violence.
 
Everywhere! Haven't you heard? It's called harm reduction, and it works everywhere!!

Just ask for Joe Biden's 'safe drug kit' and get your freeeeeeee crack pipe! You'll quit any day now!
I can't help to think hunter owns a Crack pipe manufacturing plant and it's stupid anyways you can make a pipe out of anything
 
Castle doctine has wasted so many lives on the "War on Thievery". Americans need to risk their lives to mass shootings and assassins just so a few armed homeowners can shoot stubborn intruders.
A few?

Citation?
 
I can't help to think hunter owns a Crack pipe manufacturing plant and it's stupid anyways you can make a pipe out of anything
I had a buddy who was famous for carving out carrots to smoke pot.
 
Lots of talk about gun violence, these days. Got me to thinking (always dangerous), which got me to googling. Most gun violence is gang related, it seems. Most gang violence (almost all of it) is drug related.

When we hear about the kid shot on the corner in chicago by another kid, we just shrug it off as gang violence. Doesn't make the news. It's just a statistic. What we don't tend to think, is the underlying cause. The true story behind that shooting. Which is to say, that it was a hostile takeover of one business interest by a rival business interest. No, what we want is to debase those kids into something subhuman...gang members, thugs, degenerates...criminals. Of course, they ARE criminals. But in many areas, think about their options. Work a minimum wage job, and hope to get promoted to management? College? Not an option. Sure, get good grades, you say. And what if they all got good grades? Only so much scholarship to go around, eh? Meanwhile, there's a guy at the local hangout who is offering you more money than you've ever seen, and all you gotta do is sell some merchandise. When presented with those options, I'd say MOST folks would opt for the later. You're not FORCING drugs on anyone. They come to you, wanting it. That's on them, right? Personal responsibility, right? The problem comes when competition enters the market. Now, a normal, legal business...can't just go and gun down their competition. Because laws, and such. But if you're already operating outside the law...what good are they for you? So, a question I pose is, in the absence of the rule of law...would Walmart send armed soldiers to gun down Target employees and executives? I think they would. I think it's human nature to be selfish, greedy, and ruthless. If you doubt that, simply watch a group of toddlers unsupervised.

We can dehumanize gangs, and gang members all we want, but ultimately, they are simply rival businesses doing what most any other business would do if they were able...eliminating their competition to gain market share. Our vantage point is that of privilege, viewing events from afar, from a place of never having to make choices like those faced by inner city kids, from a place of having never had to make choices like the gang leaders themselves.

Our gun violence, most of it, at least, seems to me, is simply economic violence, of the most direct kind. Rival businesses competing for an expanded customer base. Do we truly believe more gun laws will address this? Do we truly believe more gun laws are the best way TO address this? We've wasted SO much money on the war on drugs, I sometimes wonder if, instead, we had simply spent that money on community investment...where would we be today?

Tripe.
 
The answer is legal heroin, free needles, and safe injection sites. Wherever this had been done, drug use plummets overnight.

People run to treatment and ask how they can become employable and productive members of society.

Great idea, but (voluntary, of course) “treatment” must include free room & board, a reasonable weekly cash spending allowance, job training and (upon completion) placement into a ‘job for life’ public employee union position paying at least a “living wage” (to start).

Failure to regularly show up for work at the assigned pubic union ‘job for life’ will place the person back into “treatment”. Anyone failing to complete “treatment” within one year will be considered permanently disabled and be given handsome disability pension benefits (3X the maximum Social Security pays) for life. Enjoy your drugs and good luck.
 
Lots of talk about gun violence, these days. Got me to thinking (always dangerous), which got me to googling. Most gun violence is gang related, it seems. Most gang violence (almost all of it) is drug related.

When we hear about the kid shot on the corner in chicago by another kid, we just shrug it off as gang violence. Doesn't make the news. It's just a statistic. What we don't tend to think, is the underlying cause. The true story behind that shooting. Which is to say, that it was a hostile takeover of one business interest by a rival business interest. No, what we want is to debase those kids into something subhuman...gang members, thugs, degenerates...criminals. Of course, they ARE criminals. But in many areas, think about their options. Work a minimum wage job, and hope to get promoted to management? College? Not an option. Sure, get good grades, you say. And what if they all got good grades? Only so much scholarship to go around, eh? Meanwhile, there's a guy at the local hangout who is offering you more money than you've ever seen, and all you gotta do is sell some merchandise. When presented with those options, I'd say MOST folks would opt for the later. You're not FORCING drugs on anyone. They come to you, wanting it. That's on them, right? Personal responsibility, right? The problem comes when competition enters the market. Now, a normal, legal business...can't just go and gun down their competition. Because laws, and such. But if you're already operating outside the law...what good are they for you? So, a question I pose is, in the absence of the rule of law...would Walmart send armed soldiers to gun down Target employees and executives? I think they would. I think it's human nature to be selfish, greedy, and ruthless. If you doubt that, simply watch a group of toddlers unsupervised.

We can dehumanize gangs, and gang members all we want, but ultimately, they are simply rival businesses doing what most any other business would do if they were able...eliminating their competition to gain market share. Our vantage point is that of privilege, viewing events from afar, from a place of never having to make choices like those faced by inner city kids, from a place of having never had to make choices like the gang leaders themselves.

Our gun violence, most of it, at least, seems to me, is simply economic violence, of the most direct kind. Rival businesses competing for an expanded customer base. Do we truly believe more gun laws will address this? Do we truly believe more gun laws are the best way TO address this? We've wasted SO much money on the war on drugs, I sometimes wonder if, instead, we had simply spent that money on community investment...where would we be today?

Since you like to Google, Google when are guns most used. After you find out that they are most used to threaten, then Google who guns are used to threaten most.

You'll learn a lot about the true use of guns and the real gun problem.
 
Since you like to Google, Google when are guns most used. After you find out that they are most used to threaten, then Google who guns are used to threaten most.

You'll learn a lot about the true use of guns and the real gun problem.
Did that. It doesn't change or invalidate anything I've said.
 
Lots of talk about gun violence, these days. Got me to thinking (always dangerous), which got me to googling. Most gun violence is gang related, it seems. Most gang violence (almost all of it) is drug related.

When we hear about the kid shot on the corner in chicago by another kid, we just shrug it off as gang violence. Doesn't make the news. It's just a statistic. What we don't tend to think, is the underlying cause. The true story behind that shooting. Which is to say, that it was a hostile takeover of one business interest by a rival business interest. No, what we want is to debase those kids into something subhuman...gang members, thugs, degenerates...criminals. Of course, they ARE criminals. But in many areas, think about their options. Work a minimum wage job, and hope to get promoted to management? College? Not an option. Sure, get good grades, you say. And what if they all got good grades? Only so much scholarship to go around, eh? Meanwhile, there's a guy at the local hangout who is offering you more money than you've ever seen, and all you gotta do is sell some merchandise. When presented with those options, I'd say MOST folks would opt for the later. You're not FORCING drugs on anyone. They come to you, wanting it. That's on them, right? Personal responsibility, right? The problem comes when competition enters the market. Now, a normal, legal business...can't just go and gun down their competition. Because laws, and such. But if you're already operating outside the law...what good are they for you? So, a question I pose is, in the absence of the rule of law...would Walmart send armed soldiers to gun down Target employees and executives? I think they would. I think it's human nature to be selfish, greedy, and ruthless. If you doubt that, simply watch a group of toddlers unsupervised.

We can dehumanize gangs, and gang members all we want, but ultimately, they are simply rival businesses doing what most any other business would do if they were able...eliminating their competition to gain market share. Our vantage point is that of privilege, viewing events from afar, from a place of never having to make choices like those faced by inner city kids, from a place of having never had to make choices like the gang leaders themselves.

Our gun violence, most of it, at least, seems to me, is simply economic violence, of the most direct kind. Rival businesses competing for an expanded customer base. Do we truly believe more gun laws will address this? Do we truly believe more gun laws are the best way TO address this? We've wasted SO much money on the war on drugs, I sometimes wonder if, instead, we had simply spent that money on community investment...where would we be today?
Seems questionable that you would argue for a lack of gun control laws and also give an example of how terrible it would be if we lacked laws.
 
Seems questionable that you would argue for a lack of gun control laws and also give an example of how terrible it would be if we lacked laws.
I've got layers.
 
Is that better than having a reason?
Creating laws for the sake of saying "We did something!" is not providing solutions to problems, it's campagn rhetoric.

I'm all for laws and regulation. EFFECTIVE laws and regulation. As of yet, outside of a complete ban on fire arm ownership, or measures designed specifically to reduce gun ownership and therefor gun proliferation...I've seen NO gun control laws that would have any affect, imo, on over all gun violence. We're stuck in this narrative that's dominated by mass shootings, because that grabs our collective attention, because, for us, it's a tragedy. Drug dealer shot on the corner in South Central is business as usual...it's part of the plan. In fact, when that is NO LONGER happening, it becomes news. Yet THAT is what drives homicides, gun deaths, murder, violence. And red flag laws won't do anything about it. It's economic violence...people with the mindset of "Get Rich or Die Trying".
 
Creating laws for the sake of saying "We did something!" is not providing solutions to problems, it's campagn rhetoric.

I'm all for laws and regulation. EFFECTIVE laws and regulation. As of yet, outside of a complete ban on fire arm ownership, or measures designed specifically to reduce gun ownership and therefor gun proliferation...I've seen NO gun control laws that would have any affect, imo, on over all gun violence. We're stuck in this narrative that's dominated by mass shootings, because that grabs our collective attention, because, for us, it's a tragedy. Drug dealer shot on the corner in South Central is business as usual...it's part of the plan. In fact, when that is NO LONGER happening, it becomes news. Yet THAT is what drives homicides, gun deaths, murder, violence. And red flag laws won't do anything about it. It's economic violence...people with the mindset of "Get Rich or Die Trying".
I find it ironically amusing that americans who boast they are the freest of the free always looks to creating laws to govern them when they have a problem. Also ironic is that americans are all for law and regulation. Yet have allowed their justice system to become corrupt and their police are incompetent.

I have to disagree. If gang crime and problems were all that troubled america the country would be a near paradise. But I do agree that your problem with gangs is due to and can be met with economic solutions rather than just a kill or jail approach.

I think the mindset of the people you describe is more of " Get rich quick even if it means others may die." America has evolved a twisted understanding of the meaning of individualism. For them it is " I am ok, and if you get hurt because of that then tough for you."
 
Castle doctine has wasted so many lives on the "War on Thievery". Americans need to risk their lives to mass shootings and assassins just so a few armed homeowners can shoot stubborn intruders.

?? You would just assume they meant you and your family no harm and do what? Stand in the corner and wait and see?

If someone breaks into your home when they know you're there...they are going to expect resistance and be prepared to protect themselves. They obviously dont care about the well-being of the family/individuals or they'd choose a time when no one's home.

So please answer my questions above and then also tell me why you think you are entitled to demand other people take that risk with their/their family's lives?
 
Lots of talk about gun violence, these days. Got me to thinking (always dangerous), which got me to googling. Most gun violence is gang related, it seems. Most gang violence (almost all of it) is drug related.

When we hear about the kid shot on the corner in chicago by another kid, we just shrug it off as gang violence. Doesn't make the news. It's just a statistic. What we don't tend to think, is the underlying cause. The true story behind that shooting. Which is to say, that it was a hostile takeover of one business interest by a rival business interest. No, what we want is to debase those kids into something subhuman...gang members, thugs, degenerates...criminals. Of course, they ARE criminals. But in many areas, think about their options. Work a minimum wage job, and hope to get promoted to management? College? Not an option. Sure, get good grades, you say. And what if they all got good grades? Only so much scholarship to go around, eh? Meanwhile, there's a guy at the local hangout who is offering you more money than you've ever seen, and all you gotta do is sell some merchandise. When presented with those options, I'd say MOST folks would opt for the later. You're not FORCING drugs on anyone. They come to you, wanting it. That's on them, right? Personal responsibility, right? The problem comes when competition enters the market. Now, a normal, legal business...can't just go and gun down their competition. Because laws, and such. But if you're already operating outside the law...what good are they for you? So, a question I pose is, in the absence of the rule of law...would Walmart send armed soldiers to gun down Target employees and executives? I think they would. I think it's human nature to be selfish, greedy, and ruthless. If you doubt that, simply watch a group of toddlers unsupervised.

We can dehumanize gangs, and gang members all we want, but ultimately, they are simply rival businesses doing what most any other business would do if they were able...eliminating their competition to gain market share. Our vantage point is that of privilege, viewing events from afar, from a place of never having to make choices like those faced by inner city kids, from a place of having never had to make choices like the gang leaders themselves.

Our gun violence, most of it, at least, seems to me, is simply economic violence, of the most direct kind. Rival businesses competing for an expanded customer base. Do we truly believe more gun laws will address this? Do we truly believe more gun laws are the best way TO address this? We've wasted SO much money on the war on drugs, I sometimes wonder if, instead, we had simply spent that money on community investment...where would we be today?
you make a good point for the legalization of drugs......take the profit out of gangdom
 
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