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How's that FREE TRADE thingy these days! LMAO

RabidAlpaca

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China Corporate Espionage Boom Knocks Wind Out of U.S. Companies - Bloomberg


But I dont see the stupid CEOS in the poor house like the rest of us are...........

That's because there aren't a whole lot of stupid CEOs. The stupid ones have already failed. It requires quite a bit of brains and finess to run a successful company.

And seeing as how you seem to have beef with free trade. What would you rather have us do? Lock down the US so that no goods may be imported? That'll work soooo well.
 

274ina

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That's because there aren't a whole lot of stupid CEOs. The stupid ones have already failed. It requires quite a bit of brains and finess to run a successful company.

And seeing as how you seem to have beef with free trade. What would you rather have us do? Lock down the US so that no goods may be imported? That'll work soooo well.

The CEO of this company was a moron,
The CEO of Catapillar is a moron.

"Cat Scammed: How A U.S. Company Blew Half A Billion Dollars In China"
Cat Scammed: How A U.S. Company Blew Half A Billion Dollars In China - Forbes

The list goes on and on.

Free Trade will go down in History as the biggest millitary inteligence deception scam of all time .
 

RabidAlpaca

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The CEO of this company was a moron,
The CEO of Catapillar is a moron.

"Cat Scammed: How A U.S. Company Blew Half A Billion Dollars In China"
Cat Scammed: How A U.S. Company Blew Half A Billion Dollars In China - Forbes

The list goes on and on.

Free Trade will go down in History as the biggest millitary inteligence deception scam of all time .
...Free trade.... is a military intelligence deception scam.... Uh huh... I can tell you're operating on an entirely unique level of crazy that I can't keep up with. You do realize that the concept of free trade is hundreds of years old, right?

Perhaps this should be moved to the conspiracy theory subforum?

(And by the way, Caterpillar's net profit from 2012 was 18 billion of 65 billion in sales. So apparently that CEO is lightyears smarter than you. Where are your billions of dollars in revenue?)
 
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274ina

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...Free trade.... is a military intelligence deception scam.... Uh huh... I can tell you're operating on an entirely unique level of crazy that I can't keep up with. You do realize that the concept of free trade is hundreds of years old, right?

Perhaps this should be moved to the conspiracy theory subforum?

(And by the way, Caterpillar's net profit from 2012 was 18 billion of 65 billion in sales. So apparently that CEO is lightyears smarter than you. Where are your billions of dollars in revenue?)

Yup, the Chinaman sold Congress a deception program called Free Trade.

A few inteligent people did not fall for it. We all spoke our mind at the battle of Seattle

The paid off Congress took their 30 pieces of silver and singed more "Free Trade " deals.

Free Trade has never worked, and has never been done. Mercantilism works. that is why China is 100% Mercantile.
you will note China Current Account balance, and the same with USA........
 

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Yup, the Chinaman sold Congress a deception program called Free Trade.

A few inteligent people did not fall for it. We all spoke our mind at the battle of Seattle

The paid off Congress took their 30 pieces of silver and singed more "Free Trade " deals.

Free Trade has never worked, and has never been done. Mercantilism works. that is why China is 100% Mercantile.
you will note China Current Account balance, and the same with USA........

That's absolutely insane, and I think you have a very poor understanding of it if you're really suggesting that.

Mercantilism brought with it constant wars between big, civilized countries, mass colonialism and a drive for slavery. It stifles innovation and new ideas almost completely.

You want us to shut down all trade and only accept goods from America. Nothing is made in America anymore, so say goodbye to your TVs, internet, phones, cars, etc. etc. Even the few things we do make like cars are made largely of imported materials.

Hey, if you like the chinese system so much, you should move over there. I'm sure there's a low paying factory job for you product of closed-minding economic thinking you're so fond of.

Free trade isn't going away. Nobody here is interested in taking a leap hundreds of years into the past. And by the way, whether you are or not, saying things like "the Chinaman sold congress" makes you sound super racist.

Edit: And by the way, free trade wasn't introduced to America in 1999, so no, you didn't fight for ****.
 
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That's absolutely insane, and I think you have a very poor understanding of it if you're really suggesting that.

Mercantilism brought with it constant wars between big, civilized countries, mass colonialism and a drive for slavery. It stifles innovation and new ideas almost completely.

You want us to shut down all trade and only accept goods from America. Nothing is made in America anymore, so say goodbye to your TVs, internet, phones, cars, etc. etc. Even the few things we do make like cars are made largely of imported materials.

Hey, if you like the chinese system so much, you should move over there. I'm sure there's a low paying factory job for you product of closed-minding economic thinking you're so fond of.

Free trade isn't going away. Nobody here is interested in taking a leap hundreds of years into the past. And by the way, whether you are or not, saying things like "the Chinaman sold congress" makes you sound super racist.

Edit: And by the way, free trade wasn't introduced to America in 1999, so no, you didn't fight for ****.

Insane is lying about the past.

See USA made its OWN tv's, cars, phones EVERYTHING just fine. And we were mercatilist for most of our history.

Slavery is now called "low wage labor" in the most "efficient" country or the Race to the Bottom. Slavery just has a new name. Still at the expence of the middle class the labor struggles of the last 100 years fought for.

War was ended becasue of nukes. As China shows, war has just changed form.

I would move, its better than NO JOB in USA in the CLOSED factory any day. And they have the "Iron rice bowl"........

Chinaman refers to a NATIONALITY. and that is a perfectly acceptable form of discrimination. But it also shows the traitors we have in USA, those that support foreigners are all traitors
to all US CITIZENS.

Free Trade went away in 1900, 1930, 1939. It will go away agian becasue you cant screw a majority of the people and not have them revolt.
 

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That's because there aren't a whole lot of stupid CEOs. The stupid ones have already failed. It requires quite a bit of brains and finess to run a successful company.

And seeing as how you seem to have beef with free trade. What would you rather have us do? Lock down the US so that no goods may be imported? That'll work soooo well.

No, but I would support imposing heavy import duties to replace some income taxation.
 
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Insane is lying about the past.

See USA made its OWN tv's, cars, phones EVERYTHING just fine. And we were mercatilist for most of our history.

Slavery is now called "low wage labor" in the most "efficient" country or the Race to the Bottom. Slavery just has a new name. Still at the expence of the middle class the labor struggles of the last 100 years fought for.

War was ended becasue of nukes. As China shows, war has just changed form.

I would move, its better than NO JOB in USA in the CLOSED factory any day. And they have the "Iron rice bowl"........

Chinaman refers to a NATIONALITY. and that is a perfectly acceptable form of discrimination. But it also shows the traitors we have in USA, those that support foreigners are all traitors
to all US CITIZENS.

Free Trade went away in 1900, 1930, 1939. It will go away agian becasue you cant screw a majority of the people and not have them revolt.


As I posted in the other thread:

It only looks like a race to the bottom because you're on top. I think the Liberal ideology would love this--the poor Chinese man now has an opportunity to rise from his $2/hour job to a $7/hour job. Of course, when you're currently making $20/hour and it gets cut down to $15, you would see it as a "race to the bottom." I assure you that Chinese man sees it as a race to the top!

That was, of course, before I realized how blatantly racist you are. I guess it's more important to have your average American make significantly more money than to pay individuals in emerging markets a literal living wage (not to mention the liberal interpretation of "living wage")
 

RabidAlpaca

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Insane is lying about the past.

See USA made its OWN tv's, cars, phones EVERYTHING just fine. And we were mercatilist for most of our history.

Slavery is now called "low wage labor" in the most "efficient" country or the Race to the Bottom. Slavery just has a new name. Still at the expence of the middle class the labor struggles of the last 100 years fought for.

War was ended becasue of nukes. As China shows, war has just changed form.

I would move, its better than NO JOB in USA in the CLOSED factory any day. And they have the "Iron rice bowl"........

Chinaman refers to a NATIONALITY. and that is a perfectly acceptable form of discrimination. But it also shows the traitors we have in USA, those that support foreigners are all traitors
to all US CITIZENS.

Free Trade went away in 1900, 1930, 1939. It will go away agian becasue you cant screw a majority of the people and not have them revolt.
If you'd like to work in a sweatshop, go do that, I'm sure they'd love to hire a wide eyed American to spend 12 hours a day soldering little electronic components onto boards. We then as Americans can use that cheap labor you performed to our benefit.

You're painting the picture to be far more dire than it really is, and you're not using actual facts to back any of it up. (Kind of like the "Chinamen brought free trade to America in 1999" statement)

There are lots of jobs that are widely available that Americans just don't want to do. Why don't Americans go work in the fields picking crops like the Mexican immigrants? Because it's horribly hard work and the pay is horrible! Why would you want to force Americans to do something nobody wants to do, while we already have a cheap labor source for that?

I'm sorry if you're bitter because you can't find a job. You can either take one of these sweatshop/field jobs, or you can work on improving your skillset to get another job. Either way, free trade isn't going away, ever. We are not magically going to bring all manufacturing home to the US, so all you're doing is whining for nothing.

Not to mention if we shut down foreign imports today, our economy would instantly collapse, and we don't even remotely have the manufacturing infrastructure we need to continue. It would take decades to build the kind of infrastructure that Shenzhen, China has. These are things you have never even thought about that I have to deal with on a daily basis.

No, but I would support imposing heavy import duties to replace some income taxation.

Why? All that does is screw the American consumer. If China wants to work their workers to the bone to provide us with super cheap products, why should we stop them? We can take their cheap labor and manufacturing and use it to make bigger, better things.

We need to focus on being a more high tech society. Why would we want our own citizens in sweat shops making electronics components? We want to educate our people to be the engineers of the future to use those things to change the world.

EVERY company in some way shape or form uses Chinese manufacturing. Whether it be in the designs or just the components. As an engineer who frequently has to work with Chinese manufacturers, I find it's really the best option all around. Why should my company pay double or triple to produce a product in the US? I'd like to give my customers a product that's 3 times cheaper.
 
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I'm surprised you don't understand it. Firstly, it doesn't "screw the consumer." I would replace taxes with this revenue. By making imports more expensive you make domestic production more competitive. That motivates companies to bring production home. That brings jobs home and allows us to make things that we can trade with others rather than just being a consumer society. It also makes "taxes" optional. If you want an import, you pay a price. If you domestically made products the price you pay at least contributes to our wealth rather than the wealth of others. You want to be a "high tech" society. How are you going to trade "high techness" in the world market. You can't keep consuming. Eventually the money begins to run out. Perhaps you have noticed that happening.
 

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I'm surprised you don't understand it. Firstly, it doesn't "screw the consumer." I would replace taxes with this revenue. By making imports more expensive you make domestic production more competitive. That motivates companies to bring production home. That brings jobs home and allows us to make things that we can trade with others rather than just being a consumer society. It also makes "taxes" optional. If you want an import, you pay a price. If you domestically made products the price you pay at least contributes to our wealth rather than the wealth of others. You want to be a "high tech" society. How are you going to trade "high techness" in the world market. You can't keep consuming. Eventually the money begins to run out. Perhaps you have noticed that happening.

We as Americans are still the primary producer of tech and innovation. We've grown above the menial labor that is sewing together teddy bears or snapping plastic pieces together. Your plan is a no win scenario. You can't make ANYTHING nowadays without components from all over the world, not just China. To shut that off or to limit that will make prices skyrocket. If the Japanese can make better capacitors and cheaper than us, why should we try to make worse, more expensive capacitors? Why not order the capacitors from them and use it in bigger products?

The company I work for, for instance, makes the highest quality x-ray measurement machines in the world. Our products are chock full of pieces from all over the globe. To sit there and tell a company like mine we all need to order everything from inland would completely destroy us. Not to mention it would take DECADES to ramp up American manufacturing capacity to what the Chinese have. What are we supposed to do in the decades in between? Just suffer through a horrible recession?
 

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We as Americans are still the primary producer of tech and innovation. We've grown above the menial labor that is sewing together teddy bears or snapping plastic pieces together. Your plan is a no win scenario. You can't make ANYTHING nowadays without components from all over the world, not just China. To shut that off or to limit that will make prices skyrocket. If the Japanese can make better capacitors and cheaper than us, why should we try to make worse, more expensive capacitors? Why not order the capacitors from them and use it in bigger products?

The company I work for, for instance, makes the highest quality x-ray measurement machines in the world. Our products are chock full of pieces from all over the globe. To sit there and tell a company like mine we all need to order everything from inland would completely destroy us. Not to mention it would take DECADES to ramp up American manufacturing capacity to what the Chinese have. What are we supposed to do in the decades in between? Just suffer through a horrible recession?

Fine, now just watch as our wealth continues to flow overseas. You think the economy is bad now? Just watch.
 

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Fine, now just watch as our wealth continues to flow overseas. You think the economy is bad now? Just watch.

The problem is the wealth distribution. What the hell would it change if we brought the $3/hr jobs over here?

Wealth isn't flowing overseas, it's flowing up. Look at Apple for example, they design in the US, manufacture in China, and sell to Americans (and other countries). They have 120 billion in cash just sitting around. How is the wealth not in America?
 

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The problem is the wealth distribution.

Wealth isn't flowing overseas,

Oh good so now we don't have to pay for imports?


it's flowing up. Look at Apple for example, they design in the US, manufacture in China, and sell to Americans (and other countries). They have 120 billion in cash just sitting around. How is the wealth not in America?

Perhaps you need to look at the economy as whole rather than select one company.

No need to worry. You are going to get your way.
 

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Oh good so now we don't have to pay for imports?




Perhaps you need to look at the economy as whole rather than select one company.

No need to worry. You are going to get your way.

Of course we pay for imports, but you seem to somehow think this is a zero sum game, that if someone gets money, it has to be at someone else's expense.

If I start a company to make widgets, I hire Americans to design my widgets, then have the widgets produced in China, then ship it back to me in the US to sell. The customers then buy my widgets because it will change their life.

Now, who is losing in this scenario?

Winners:
- The company owner
- The American employees hired to design the widgets
- The low income Chinese workers that now have a job instead of starving
- The US consumer who now has something life changing

Losers:
- Nobody

Nobody loses in this scenario. If I had never started a company, a whole lot of workers, both American and Chinese don't get jobs, and the US consumers don't get that product.

Fun Fact: Almost zero microchips in the world are completely produced in the US. The US companies that make chips, such as Intel, will only make the inner silicon chip, they'll then ship it off to Malaysia to be enclosed in the black plastic casing that we see, then shipped to China to be placed on boards, then sent to the US to be sold as products. They do this because other countries can do certain stages of the process better than we can.

Oh, and you never answered this, by the way:
What the hell would it change if we brought the $3/hr jobs over here?
 

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Americans. You cannot consume forever.

Ok, I've tried to produce thoughtful, well written arguments and you come back over and over with lame one-liners and refuse to address any actual points. I guess we're done.
 

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Ok, I've tried to produce thoughtful, well written arguments and you come back over and over with lame one-liners and refuse to address any actual points. I guess we're done.
It doesn't take much to respond. You want us to remain a consumer society. We've been going down hill ever since we became one and we will continue on the same path.
 

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It doesn't take much to respond. You want us to remain a consumer society. We've been going down hill ever since we became one and we will continue on the same path.

Incorrect. At this point in time, the quality of life for the average human being has never been higher in human history. Even poor people have refrigators, AC, TVs, smartphones, etc.

My guess is you're an older guy who has some kind of nostalgia for the days of old. You've somehow convinced yourself that it was so much better "back in the day" and also made some pretty radical assumptions that we haven't been a free trade economy for centuries.

You can't make a single electronic device without components from dozens of countries. You want to shut that down and throw us back into the stone age. Our entire society and economy is based on goods from all over the world.

You talk big talk, but you have absolutely no intention of helping the "problem". If it were as important to you as you pretend, you'd buy products containing components only made in America (good luck). So throw away your computer, your smart phone, your car, all of your appliances, everything. They are all chock full of tainted foreign components. That couch? Gone.

But no, you'll just keep typing away furiously on your foreign made computer, because you have absolutely zero gumption for your cause whatsoever.


I will sleep soundly at night knowing the world will keep on embracing free trade while you angrily type into the night. Not giong to happen homie. And as I pointed out and you refused to address: Our problem isn't wealth going overseas, it's wealth moving upwards.
 

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Incorrect. At this point in time, the quality of life for the average human being has never been higher in human history. Even poor people have refrigators, AC, TVs, smartphones, etc.

My guess is you're an older guy who has some kind of nostalgia for the days of old. You've somehow convinced yourself that it was so much better "back in the day" and also made some pretty radical assumptions that we haven't been a free trade economy for centuries.

You can't make a single electronic device without components from dozens of countries. You want to shut that down and throw us back into the stone age. Our entire society and economy is based on goods from all over the world.

You talk big talk, but you have absolutely no intention of helping the "problem". If it were as important to you as you pretend, you'd buy products containing components only made in America (good luck). So throw away your computer, your smart phone, your car, all of your appliances, everything. They are all chock full of tainted foreign components. That couch? Gone.

But no, you'll just keep typing away furiously on your foreign made computer, because you have absolutely zero gumption for your cause whatsoever.


I will sleep soundly at night knowing the world will keep on embracing free trade while you angrily type into the night. Not giong to happen homie. And as I pointed out and you refused to address: Our problem isn't wealth going overseas, it's wealth moving upwards.


Wow, a lot of anger. Yes, we are done.
 

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Wow, a lot of anger. Yes, we are done.

Run along, boy. I've laid out full arguments 3 times and you haven't addressed ONE SINGLE LINE of it. If my arguments weren't absolutely destroying yours, you probably would've responded by now.

So keep being a hypocrite on your foreign made computer living in a house probably made by low income foreign immigrants. You have zero conviction.
 

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Run along, boy. I've laid out full arguments 3 times and you haven't addressed ONE SINGLE LINE of it. If my arguments weren't absolutely destroying yours, you probably would've responded by now.

So keep being a hypocrite on your foreign made computer living in a house probably made by low income foreign immigrants. You have zero conviction.

I did, son. Time for you to do the same.
 

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As I posted in the other thread:

It only looks like a race to the bottom because you're on top. I think the Liberal ideology would love this--the poor Chinese man now has an opportunity to rise from his $2/hour job to a $7/hour job. Of course, when you're currently making $20/hour and it gets cut down to $15, you would see it as a "race to the bottom." I assure you that Chinese man sees it as a race to the top!

That was, of course, before I realized how blatantly racist you are. I guess it's more important to have your average American make significantly more money than to pay individuals in emerging markets a literal living wage (not to mention the liberal interpretation of "living wage")

Ah, yes "racism" the distraction that tries to make people acting in their own interest look bad.

And I hate to tell you but NATIONALISM and discrimination agianst foreigners is legal in USA and is why the Nation state of USA exists, when it is not for the US CITIZEN, it is a failure
and DOES NOT EXIST.
 
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