How would you like to be pregnant against your will?

vergiss said:

Wow, way to make every pro-choice female alive sound like a slut. Whatever happened to the men's pursuit of sex?

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If you get a cheap kick at the expense of another human’s life, then yeah, pro-choice females are as you so politely described them.

ProChoiceDanielle said:

How would you like to be pregnant against your will?

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If you knew walking off a cliff is going to kill you, why go walk off a cliff?

Similarly...

Why have sex if you don’t want to be pregnant?

jimmyjack said:

If you get a cheap kick at the expense of another human’s life, then yeah, pro-choice females are as you so politely described them.

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Yep, because the men are totally innocent.

jimmyjack said:

You see, this whole position about it’s my body, is ridiculous, there has to be a greater reason for justifying the killing of innocent humans, especially since a woman consents to sex knowing that she may become pregnant as a result. How fair is it that a woman can deliberately become pregnant and then have the baby removed on the basis that she has changed her mind. That is wrong, we all know this, it is pathetic to even be discussing it, if a woman is adamant that she doesn’t want to be pregnant then she ought to abstain from sexual intercourse, the justification of abortion hinging on the grounds that a woman wants the freedom to become pregnant and change her mind is an insane situation. This is claiming that a woman’s freedom to have an abortion is merely available so that she can have sex, so the life of another human is no more important then a woman’s freedom to have sex. Which in turn grants a woman’s freedom to have sex of greater importance of the future of our entire race, since every woman could effectively abort her pregnancy because she was only in pursuit of sex.

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Why should she have to sustain from sexual intercourse? Today, thanks to contraceptive techniques, sexual union is possible Without it becoming a definite commitment.

And why is it all up to her? Women can hardly self-impregnate, you know.

vergiss said:

Yep, because the men are totally innocent.

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WOW, your last comment totally justifies abortion???

Men don’t decide to kill the little humans, so how can blame be levelled at men?

To you it seems, oh it’s the man’s fault, or oh it’s the little humans fault; try taking responsibility for your own actions.

kal-el said:

Why should she have to sustain from sexual intercourse? Today, thanks to contraceptive techniques, sexual union is possible Without it becoming a definite commitment.

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I didn’t say, “sustain”, I said, “abstain”, -huge difference.

So why have an abortion then?

jimmyjack said:

I didn’t say, “sustain”, I said, “abstain”, -huge difference.

So why have an abortion then?

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As I said, a child that wasn't concieved in a lovely, manner in harmony, will indeed suffer mental, physical, and emotinol drama. Death is bad, but suffering is Horrendous, and everything must be done to prevent this.

Bringing up a child should be mutually fulfilling for both parents and offspring. If a child becomes a nuisance, it leaves a terrible burden on the parents, not to mention, self-fullfilment of the child.

kal-el said:

As I said, a child that wasn't concieved in a lovely, manner in harmony, will indeed suffer mental, physical, and emotinol drama. Death is bad, but suffering is Horrendous, and everything must be done to prevent this.

Bringing up a child should be mutually fulfilling for both parents and offspring. If a child becomes a nuisance, it leaves a terrible burden on the parents, not to mention, self-fullfilment of the child.

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Speak for yourself!

In that case lets just all terminate ourselves in case we might have to face suffering.

So what you are saying is: “What a terrible burden on the parents, oh we mustn't have that; I know kill the baby with a suction catheter that will end our suffering, sod the little brat, he didn’t ask to be born, he came about through our shagging around but who cares.”

jimmyjack said:

Newsflash:

Men don't pursue abortion when they get pregnant because they can't get pregnant.

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IF Men COULD get pregnant, there would be drive up abortion clinics.

jimmyjack said:

If you knew walking off a cliff is going to kill you, why go walk off a cliff?

Similarly...

Why have sex if you don’t want to be pregnant?

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Because you want to? My husband and I do not want kids, but we are not going to stop having sex because of it.

Using birth control is not concenting to pregnancy.

ProChoiceDanielle said:

Because you want to? My husband and I do not want kids, but we are not going to stop having sex because of it.

Using birth control is not concenting to pregnancy.

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Since you're using the same defense that you've used this entire thread, yet haven't refuted my challenge to your views that I've posted multiple times, I'll post it again since it's been a while.

IValueFreedom said:

If a woman has sex, even when using birth control, and becomes pregnant, how did she not consent to the risk of pregnancy? As I submit that she did, how is she therefore not responsible for the child?

You have already conceded that birth control is not 100% effective. You know this from the packaging and/or doctors. As such, you realize that you're taking a risk. Sure, a very slight risk, but a risk nonetheless.

By saying that you never wanted this, how does that make you not responsible? You consented, even if you don't want to admit it. You know that the possibility exists, you're taking the chance, if you get "unlucky" and become pregnant, you're not less responsible than if you hadn't taken the contraceptive.

I challenge you, please, show the errors of my argument. But do so with facts, logic, and/or reasoning, not opinions. I will call you on all opinions, so don't be surprised about this.

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Please take the time a actually try and defend your position. We've all heard your stance multiple times. Now is the time for you to defend it using logic and reasoning. Please do so. I know that this might take a few minutes to do, but I implore you to do so or else your opinions in this subject matter are not worth much to me or most likely anyone else in these forums.

This is a debate forum. Please debate instead of just throwing out your view without defending it. I've challenged you... please step up to the plate and respond.

IValueFreedom said:

Since you're using the same defense that you've used this entire thread, yet haven't refuted my challenge to your views that I've posted multiple times, I'll post it again since it's been a while.



Please take the time a actually try and defend your position. We've all heard your stance multiple times. Now is the time for you to defend it using logic and reasoning. Please do so. I know that this might take a few minutes to do, but I implore you to do so or else your opinions in this subject matter are not worth much to me or most likely anyone else in these forums.

This is a debate forum. Please debate instead of just throwing out your view without defending it. I've challenged you... please step up to the plate and respond.

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It is not rocket science. A woman who is using birth control, obviously does not wish to become pregnant. If she DID wish to become pregnant, she would NOT be using birth control.

ProChoiceDanielle said:

Because you want to? My husband and I do not want kids, but we are not going to stop having sex because of it.

Using birth control is not concenting to pregnancy.

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And you won’t stop killing humans either, and all for the sake a little buzz.

If I kept shooting bullets at random intervals in public, I’m not deliberately killing anyone but if I keep it up for long enough I sure as hell will nail someone.

jimmyjack said:

And you won’t stop killing humans either, and all for the sake a little buzz.

If I kept shooting bullets at random intervals in public, I’m not deliberately killing anyone but if I keep it up for long enough I sure as hell will nail someone.

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I've never killed anything more than a fly or spider in my house.

ProChoiceDanielle said:

I've never killed anything more than a fly or spider in my house.

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The pill induces abortion too, I’m sure you have used that.

Besides, most people go to hospitals or clinics for abortions.

jimmyjack said:

The pill induces abortion too, I’m sure you have used that.

Besides, most people go to hospitals or clinics for abortions.

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LOL! Never used the pill either. But that was a great try!

vergiss said:

Wow. Such an important thing to be fussing over.
"It's next to impossible to get it done!"
"But the fact is that it's not impossible, so nyah!"

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The reason I'm arguing over it is because you wrongly accused Catty, and I couldn't take it, so I backed her up. But, now that I've won, I'll let it go. I didn't want to argue it to begin with, but you and danielle were acting so smart with your "who was showed now?" crap that I had to point out your mistake.

vergiss said:

Um, mate? I never said that it wasn't one - just that it wasn't a good idea.

If you want to get pedantic over technicalities just because it's the only thing you have left to argue over... there needs to be a technicality to nitpick in the first place.

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But you said that Catty was wrong when she said it was an option, and she was wright, and I had to clear that up.

ProChoiceDanielle said:

I've never killed anything more than a fly or spider in my house.

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That's great, I gotta say, that's just marveous that you would value life so highly. It's a good thing that you would never kill anything other than spiders and flies and humans, but sometimes even those lives can be of importance. And by the way, jimmy's point wasn't that you kill animals inside your house. His point was that since guns are made to kill (as sex is meant to get pregnant) and he is randomly shooting around (or having sex with birth control), he, if he did accidentally kill someone (or accidentally get pregnant), he would be responsible for the death of the person (or the life of the child inside).

(And yes, I know that normal men cannot get pregnant)

ProChoiceDanielle said:

LOL! Never used the pill either. But that was a great try!

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Hurray! You only support the slaughter of innocents!

ProChoiceDanielle said:

Because you want to? My husband and I do not want kids, but we are not going to stop having sex because of it.

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And what if you get the same pleasure as sex by walking off the cliff? Yu know that you could die from it, but you decide to do it anyway. If you fall and die, who's at fault? Is it you, for taking the risk, or is it luck, which worked against you? It's your fault for taking the risk, is it not?

Peralin said:

And what if you get the same pleasure as sex by walking off the cliff? Yu know that you could die from it, but you decide to do it anyway. If you fall and die, who's at fault? Is it you, for taking the risk, or is it luck, which worked against you? It's your fault for taking the risk, is it not?

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What, like bungee-jumping or skydiving? :lol:

ProChoiceDanielle said:

It is not rocket science. A woman who is using birth control, obviously does not wish to become pregnant. If she DID wish to become pregnant, she would NOT be using birth control.

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Great. You're mostly right there. With the exception of a woman who is taking birth control against her own will (usually for the will of her partner), a woman who is using birth control does not want to become pregnant.

Now, on the other hand, that does absolutely nothing to prove your position that she is not responsible for the fetus. Responsibility and will are two completely seperate things.

By claiming that someone is not responsible just because she didn't wish for the results of their actions is not a viable defense. I will use my gambler analogy again...

If a person goes to the race track but does not want to lose their money but would still like the feeling and rush that comes with gambling, they're likely to bet on 'sure shots.' These 'sure shots' have the best possible odds for the player. The gambler has done everything within their power to reduce the risk of losing money, while still taking part of the gambling process.

Now one of these 'sure shots' doesn't pull thru. The person got unlucky in their betting. Even though the person went thru the safest possible gambling process, they ended up losing. Are they not responsible for the loss? Can they actually go to the gambling establishment and claim a right to their money as they did not consent to the possiblility of losing their money? No, they can't.

By gambling at all, even with the safest procautions possible, they're consenting to a risk. They're still just as responsible to pay the money they bet as the person who lost on an extremely risky bet.

As earlier in the thread you conceded that birth control is not 100% effective, as you've been told by packaging/doctors/health officials, you're consenting to the possibility to become pregnant.


Hopefully this helps clarify my argument against your position.

Prove it wrong or admit that you're unable or unwilling (not likely) to properly defend your position.


This shouldn't be hard right? How did you put it??? Ahh... yes....

ProChoiceDanielle said:

It is not rocket science.

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ProChoiceDanielle said:

My question to you is. If I am using my birth control correctly, and consistantly. How would it be MY fault if it failed and I became pregnant?

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i began reading this thread and this was the first post i read by prochoicedanielle. i gave up after that. this alone tells us all that you obviously dont have the maturity or common sense to even be having sex in the first place. you must be 16.

what is it going to take for you to realize that its your responsibility if you get pregnant. look at your box of birth control and see where it says that it isnt 100% effective, it can and does fail, and abstinence is the only 'safe sex'.

you know who you are...you're the type of person who would sue McDonalds for making you fat because you have no concept of free will and personal responsibility.

FiremanRyan said:

i began reading this thread and this was the first post i read by prochoicedanielle. i gave up after that. this alone tells us all that you obviously dont have the maturity or common sense to even be having sex in the first place. you must be 16.

what is it going to take for you to realize that its your responsibility if you get pregnant. look at your box of birth control and see where it says that it isnt 100% effective, it can and does fail, and abstinence is the only 'safe sex'.

you know who you are...you're the type of person who would sue McDonalds for making you fat because you have no concept of free will and personal responsibility.

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:clap: Thats hilarious.