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How would you like to be pregnant against your will?

js416256

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To digress from the unnecessary banter some of the relevant arguments over the past 8 pages got me thinking about the children put up for adoption if abortion was criminalized. So since 1973 the number of adoptee in the US has declined and so many people seeking adopted children have had to go overseas, but if abortion was criminalized the number of adopted children would most likely occur. So with the hypothetical increase of adopted children where would most of these children go? I'm guessing nontraditional families like single parents or gay couples, so the question I pose to everyone is would you want to criminalize abortion and make sure adoption laws include all types of families (ex: repeal of the Florida ban on gay adoption)? Or do you think that traditional families should be promoted and nontraditional families should be frowned upon?

Here are some statistics for the number of abortions in 2001 (to give you an idea of how many children would be theoretically put up for adoption).
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5309a1.htm

"A total of 853,485 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC for 2001 from 49 reporting areas, representing a 0.5% decrease from the 857,475 legal induced abortions reported by the same 49 reporting areas for 2000. The abortion ratio, defined as the number of abortions per 1,000 live births, was 246 in 2001, compared with 245 reported for 2000. This represents a 0.4% increase in the abortion ratio. The abortion rate was 16 per 1,000 women aged 15--44 years for 2001, the same as for 2000. For both the 48 and 49 reporting areas, the abortion rate remained relatively constant during 1997--2001."
 

vergiss

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CattyCarissa said:
If you did have your tubes tied you can get the procedure reversed; I know people who have had it done. I was impressed to find out they can reverse your tubes; I think it gives a woman more choices.

What are you smoking?!

It only works some of the time. Attempting to reverse tubal ligation is a procedure with an extremely high chance of failure. Do you even know what's involved?

Peralin said:
Actually, it does when its 4-on-1, and the 1 has no response to any of the arguments of the 4. Besides, victory will never be declared, so I decide for myself when the battle is too far over for it to become an intelligent argument again.

In that case, it ended the moment you started posting.
 

Peralin

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vergiss said:
In that case, it ended the moment you started posting.

HaHaHa! I'm not sure whether you are trying to insult me or compliment me, so I'm going to assume that it is a compliment. I'm assuming that you mean that as soon as I made my first post danielle was in such awe that she could not make an intelligent response. I appreciate your support, but I really think it was an intelligent argument for a bit longer than that.

P.S.: If you were trying to insult my intelligence, eat this quote form "Are abortionist just lazy and irresponsible women?"

vergiss said:
Learn to respect other people's opinions regarding what is ethical, without shoving your own down their throats or stooping to ridiculous insults.
 
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Peralin

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js416256 said:
To digress from the unnecessary banter some of the relevant arguments over the past 8 pages got me thinking about the children put up for adoption if abortion was criminalized. So since 1973 the number of adoptee in the US has declined and so many people seeking adopted children have had to go overseas, but if abortion was criminalized the number of adopted children would most likely occur. So with the hypothetical increase of adopted children where would most of these children go? I'm guessing nontraditional families like single parents or gay couples, so the question I pose to everyone is would you want to criminalize abortion and make sure adoption laws include all types of families (ex: repeal of the Florida ban on gay adoption)? Or do you think that traditional families should be promoted and nontraditional families should be frowned upon?


Good point. I think that abortion should be illegal and that gays should be allowed to adopt. I think that if a homosexual adult thinks that he/she/they can take care of a child better than the orphanage then let them go for it. Two fathers or two mothers can do just as well as one mother and one father. It would be tougher for them to raise the child, but I think that anyone should have the right to adopt, assuming that they meet minimum requirements of money and criminal record.
 
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CattyCarissa said:
But I thought you made the comment that you wouldnt get your tubes tied because you wanted kids later but if it can be reversed then you can have children later. (There are doctors that are understanding that will tie your tubes if thats what you needed to have done to prevent unwanted pregnancies.)

So why did you just reply that you wont ever have your tubes tied even after having children?

#1) Are you going to pay for me to have my tubes tied?
#2) Are you going to find a doctor who will perform such a procedure on a 23 year old with no children?
#3) I will no undergo that surgery period.

Because I will never have my tubes tied. It is much easier for a man to be snipped than a woman go through getting her tubes tied, and that is what will happen in my marriage.
 

CattyCarissa

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vergiss said:
What are you smoking?!

It only works some of the time. Attempting to reverse tubal ligation is a procedure with an extremely high chance of failure. Do you even know what's involved?



In that case, it ended the moment you started posting.


If you read my message you would have known I know what I am talking about so evidently you need to quit smoking because you need to pay attention.
 

rudy0908

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Peralin said:
Good point. I think that abortion should be illegal and that gays should be allowed to adopt. I think that if a homosexual adult thinks that he/she/they can take care of a child better than the orphanage then let them go for it. Two fathers or two mothers can do just as well as one mother and one father. It would be tougher for them to raise the child, but I think that anyone should have the right to adopt, assuming that they meet minimum requirements of money and criminal record.
I completely agree. Gay parents can raise children better than the orphanage system. If there's someone that'll love them and raise them well, I say let it happen. If nothing else, it'll save money spent taking care of the kids. Its a win-win situation for all.
 

vergiss

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CattyCarissa

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vergiss said:




I was just letting people know there are always other options. It is better know all the choices that are out there.
Tubal ligation is An operation to tie the fallopian tubes closed. This procedure prevents pregnancy by blocking the passage of eggs from the ovaries to the uterus.
Tubal reversal: Heres a site you need to read.
http://www.tubal-reversal.net/tubal_anastomosis_implantation.htm
and the procedure:
http://www.tubal-reversal.net/tubal_ligation_fallopian_tube.htm
 
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CattyCarissa said:
If you read my message you would have known I know what I am talking about so evidently you need to quit smoking because you need to pay attention.

The rates of tubal reversal is very low.
 
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CattyCarissa said:
I was just letting people know there are always other options. It is better know all the choices that are out there.
Tubal ligation is An operation to tie the fallopian tubes closed. This procedure prevents pregnancy by blocking the passage of eggs from the ovaries to the uterus.
Tubal reversal: Heres a site you need to read.
http://www.tubal-reversal.net/tubal_anastomosis_implantation.htm
and the procedure:
http://www.tubal-reversal.net/tubal_ligation_fallopian_tube.htm

They do not "tie" the fallopian tubes anymore, and haven't since the early 1990's. They now cut and BURN them.

Either way, I am not having a tubal, and if my birth control fails. I will abort.
 

CattyCarissa

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ProChoiceDanielle said:
#1) Are you going to pay for me to have my tubes tied?
#2) Are you going to find a doctor who will perform such a procedure on a 23 year old with no children?
#3) I will no undergo that surgery period.

Because I will never have my tubes tied. It is much easier for a man to be snipped than a woman go through getting her tubes tied, and that is what will happen in my marriage.


I wasn't criticizing you; I was just wanted to help you to find other options. And if you think its easier for your husband to get a vasectomy then thats fine; I know its your decision. I was just trying to help you.
 
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CattyCarissa said:
I wasn't criticizing you; I was just wanted to help you to find other options. And if you think its easier for your husband to get a vasectomy then thats fine; I know its your decision. I was just trying to help you.

I do not need other options. I am on birth control, and it works just fine for me. I do not plan on my husband getting "fixed" until after we have our family later on in life.
 

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ProChoiceDanielle said:
I do not need other options. I am on birth control, and it works just fine for me. I do not plan on my husband getting "fixed" until after we have our family later on in life.


That's also reversible.:wink:
 

Youve Got To Be Kidding!

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Peralin said:
Have you ever heard of condoms? They help out with that sort of thing. Again, not 100% reliable, but you have to decide whether it is a risk worth taking.

Look, if you do not want to have children, you should not be having sex at all. If you still want to have sex, then you are taking a risk. If you get unlucky and happen to get pregnant, then that is your own fault!!! You knew there was a chance that it would happen and you took the risk anyway because for some reason you decided that you could not live a happy life without sex.

So you got unlucky, now what do you do about it? Do you kill somebody because of your lack of luck? Or do you accept the fact that you were unlucky or made a poor decision and go through with the birth. Being forced to be pregnant (if the law is overturned) would simply force the woman to take responsibility for her own actions instead of trying to solve the problem by killing the baby.

Also, there is the option of putting the child up for adoption if you absolutely cannot take care of it.


Actually condoms dont help. The NeoCons are really strung up about what they teach our kids about sex. Condoms can lead to aids is one of em. Hence if it leads to aids it can for pregnancy also wich is another thing they teach em.
 

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Peralin

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Youve Got To Be Kidding! said:
Actually condoms dont help. The NeoCons are really strung up about what they teach our kids about sex. Condoms can lead to aids is one of em. Hence if it leads to aids it can for pregnancy also wich is another thing they teach em.

Are you saying that condoms do not help prevent pregnancy? Because I'm pretty sure that is the main purpose of using condoms and/or birth control. If the sperm is prevented form getting to the fallopian tube, you can't have fertilization! And that's exactly what a condom is supposed to do. Not 1005 reliable, but it still helps.
 

Peralin

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CattyCarissa said:

Good point, you sure showed danielle that time. And actually, I don't think she does research anything beforehand. Usually she'll just say "get a hobby" if you try to throw facts at her, so let's see what type of response she has to back herself out of this one.
 
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Peralin said:
Are you saying that condoms do not help prevent pregnancy? Because I'm pretty sure that is the main purpose of using condoms and/or birth control. If the sperm is prevented form getting to the fallopian tube, you can't have fertilization! And that's exactly what a condom is supposed to do. Not 1005 reliable, but it still helps.

Actually the MAIN use for a condom is to prevent the spreading of diseases. Condoms are the least effective method of birth control next to the pull out method.
 
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Peralin said:
Good point, you sure showed danielle that time. And actually, I don't think she does research anything beforehand. Usually she'll just say "get a hobby" if you try to throw facts at her, so let's see what type of response she has to back herself out of this one.

I do not have any response for it. My sisters husband had a vasectomy when he was 45 years old (he is much older than her) and she decided she wanted another child, and they could not concieve. The doctors told them there was nothing that they could do. I just go by my own personal experience.

Again, My husband and I will keep using our form of birth control, and if I get pregnant before we want children, I will obtain a safe and legal abortion.
 

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ProChoiceDanielle said:
Actually the MAIN use for a condom is to prevent the spreading of diseases. Condoms are the least effective method of birth control next to the pull out method.


Right, I don't know what I was thinking. However, it does help, no?
 
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Peralin said:
Right, I don't know what I was thinking. However, it does help, no?

They help if you know how to use them properly. But unfortunatly since our lovely Christian President has cut funding for sexual education classes so that he can add more money to abstance only classes, the number of STD's in children/teens and unwanted pregnancies amoung that age group has also gone up. Not to mention the number of abortions has taken a rise in the years that he has been in office.

On a side note, the abstance only education programs he has been throwing money at, have all been proven to fail.
 

pax

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blogger31 said:
Well in the case of rape or incest it would suck big time.

But, in the case of a woman getting pregnant because of consensual sex, I say that is what the potential consequences were and you engaged willingly.

Really a silly question and maybe this was the response you were looking for to start an argument but the fact is we are all in situations that we would consider against our will, and we don't look to killing someone as the answer.
Ninety Nine out of one hundred, of those who want abortion legal, are not for abortion. But are against the results of outlawing abortion. Anyone....Just anyone who remembers when, knows the reasons Roe Vs Tate won was because it was the only way open, to create safety for those who were desperate, and ultimately under the hands of the back alley killers. The sentiment has always been, better legally done under sanitary and safe conditioins, than illegally, which is what usually was done. And thousands died. Those women of higher station and wealth, were always able, and will continue to acquire abortions from other countries. our poor and ignorant were not, and will not be able and will seek out the back alley butchers where they died from hemmorages and infections. Wake up you anti abortion nuts. Find another solution than just accept the fate of human stupidity. making it illegal is a greater sin. Pax.
 
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