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How would you like to be pregnant against your will?

jimmyjack

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steen said:
Really, so this only applies when you get pregnant on purpose and then aborts? Ah, thanks for clarifying that.
Wrong, when someone dies naturally they have died naturally, when you cause their death it is murder.
 

Peralin

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steen said:
Nope. I believe it is a CHILD at birth. Why the need for deception, for misrepresentation?
Well, very funny.:lol:
it is not my fault that you are so illiterat/dyslexix that you don't know the difference between "life" and "child." Sad, really, that you are unable to grasp even such a basic distinction.:doh


Ok, Mr. smart guy, what is the difference? If it is alive and unborn the it has to be a child, right? What else could it be? (If you want to get into technical definitions I can easily prove you wrong.)
 

Peralin

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vergiss said:
Wow. Caps lock, anyone? I'd love to see the source for this "75%".
He ws just giving his opinion!
vergiss said:
Steen - don't forget, we were once a sperm and an egg, too. I suppose I'm murdering every time I have my period. Oh no!
Give it up, Verge. You know that we believe that life starts at conception, and, if you read the entire thread, you'd see that we already distinguished the difference between a fetus and sperm/egg.
 

steen

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jimmyjack said:
Wrong, when someone dies naturally they have died naturally, when you cause their death it is murder.
STILL lying about what "murder" is, I see. How lame.
 

steen

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Peralin said:
Ok, Mr. smart guy, what is the difference? If it is alive and unborn the it has to be a child, right?
Nope. If it is unborn, then it is NOT a child, as "child" is a developmental stage beginning at birth. I am not responsible for your ignorance on this point.

But you ARE responsible for your distortion. You specifically asked:
P: I Mean If That Were The Case,when Does It Become A Child.
S: At birth.
P: now that I know that steen believes that life begins at birth.

As you can see, you outright lied. You deliberately misrepresented my views. PL liars do that kind of stuff. Are you a PL liar?
What else could it be? (If you want to get into technical definitions I can easily prove you wrong.)
Ah yes. With enough demogogery BS, you can "prove" whatever you claim, right? The NEWS to you is that arguments are not proof. Conjecture are not proof. Scientific definitions and evidence are proof.

And here are the scientific terms:

"Life" Maintaining life functions
"Baby" A newborn, an infant. - A developmental stage beginnig after birth
"Child" The developmental stage that starts after the neonatal stage is done and lasts until adolescence

Next time you try to lie about me and claim that when I say "Child," I mean "life" you will hear A LOT MORE about how much you are lying.
 

steen

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Peralin said:
Give it up, Verge. You know that we believe that life starts at conception,
Yeah, you can "believe" anything you want. Generally, that is all that PL do anyway. "life," of course, began nearly 4 bill years ago. It is merely continued since.
 

cupplus

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I think scientifically it is hard to deny that a zygote is indeed "alive". An good example of making this destinction was presented in my biology class. If a carrot is uprooted from the ground and placed in the refrigerator is it dead or alive? Many people claimed it was dead. Why? Based on the same arguments that claim a fetus is not a "living entity " of it's own. A carrot in the fridge is unnable to recieve sunlight, absorb water, or take in nutrients from the ground. A carrot in the fridge is absolutely helpless and unable to take care of itself. It will soon be dead. However, scientifically speaking, it is not yet dead. It maintains living cells which are capable of surviving and reproducing once connection to water, sunlight, and nutrients resume. The cells within the body of the carrot are still functioning and reproducing and as a whole the carrots life functions are still maintaining a state of homeostasis as they were before the carrot was uprooted. There is not a "hybernating stage" where a mass of living cells which is maintaining homeostasis is "unliving".

The same a body of cells within a woman's body is not capable of maintaining it's life once removed from her body. However, it IS maintaining homeostasis from within the womb. Hence it is not really scientifically up for debate whether or not the being in question is alive. The question is of course whether or not it is human and what defines humanity, as I know very few pro-lifers who are indeed "pro-life" in the complete sense of the term. All the plants and animals we consume have in deed been killed. Obviously, if the lives of these creatures are not under the protection of "pro-life" sentiment. Therefore, the only lives which are being advocated for under the banner of "pro-life" are human lives.

Again scientifically, I don't think it is really up for debate whether a zygote is of the genus species homeo sapiens. It is of no other species I know of. I know of no scientists who classify two year old homeo sapiens under a different genus species then 20, 40, or 80 year old homeo sapiens. I know of know definition of humanity that requires that a homeo sapiens have reached full maturity, intellectual development, or spiritual capacity in order to scientifically be classified as homeosapiens. A human being who does not, has not, nor will not ever display any sign of human compassion, morality, spirituality or intelligence will still be considered human if it is genetically created from a homeo sapiens. We do not debate whether or not it is morally acceptable to use intellectually deficient or emotionally retarded humans as a food source, do we? It is, I believe the heart of the matter that as human beings we are able to fully grasp the similarity and therefore we believe that other beings who seems so similar to our selves, must also experience the depth of emotion and feelings that we feels. We do not relate as easily to any other species.

This does not mean that animals other than ourselves do not feel. Rather it means we do not relate enough to care. It means that often we rate a beings feelings not by whether or not that being can feel, but based on whether or not that being can return those feelings and be a use to us or society as a whole. A cow will doubtedly contribute to any human being of it's own free will. There for if it experiences pain upon being turned into roast beef dinner, we don't care. An embryo contributes or displays little more "human" caracteristics than a one month old baby. And a one month old baby is far intellectualy inferior to many species of apes and monkeys. In fact a one month old baby, as far as I know, does not display the ability to reign morally over his/her actions, take resonsability for himself, show devotions to a God or deity, or any of the other signs I hear people porpoting to define a being as "human". I don't see any huge jump in intellectual capacity or spiritual development in a one month old baby from an 8 month old fetus.

Therefore I am convinced neither that a fetus is unhuman, unfeeling, nor unliving. The question becomeshow much can it feel at which stages of develpoment and at which point are those feelings deeper than the feelings of a pig, chicken or cow? Anyone who has seen these animals slaughtered can not really debate that they fight against their own demise the same as small fetuses. And yet no one sheds tears at dinner (unless you are the absurdly rare vegetarian anti-abortion advocate). To me killing anything is always sad. However, if we wish to live to see tomorow, we have to make unfortunate choices. I am not excited about the use of abortion for birth control. However I also believe that as a community we are sorely lacking in support for struggling parents. Adoption is often not the solution that is implied by its' suggestion as a "crises pregnancy solution." Ok have it folks.
 

ultra conservative

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Re:MOST WOMEN PUT THEMSELVES IN THAT SITUATION!!

Most(but Definitely Not All)of The Time When A Women Gets Raped She Put Herself In That Situation,she Chooses Where To Go,work,live,and Eat.
 

Peralin

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steen said:
Nope. If it is unborn, then it is NOT a child, as "child" is a developmental stage beginning at birth. I am not responsible for your ignorance on this point.

But you ARE responsible for your distortion. You specifically asked:
P: I Mean If That Were The Case,when Does It Become A Child.
S: At birth.
P: now that I know that steen believes that life begins at birth.

As you can see, you outright lied. You deliberately misrepresented my views. PL liars do that kind of stuff. Are you a PL liar?
Ah yes. With enough demogogery BS, you can "prove" whatever you claim, right? The NEWS to you is that arguments are not proof. Conjecture are not proof. Scientific definitions and evidence are proof.

And here are the scientific terms:

"Life" Maintaining life functions
"Baby" A newborn, an infant. - A developmental stage beginnig after birth
"Child" The developmental stage that starts after the neonatal stage is done and lasts until adolescence

Next time you try to lie about me and claim that when I say "Child," I mean "life" you will hear A LOT MORE about how much you are lying.


Guess what, PC? You have just completely lied. Right here:

"P: I Mean If That Were The Case,when Does It Become A Child.
S: At birth.
P: now that I know that steen believes that life begins at birth."

WRONG! I never said that first part, so don't make stuff up about me! It's no surprise that a PC would continually misquote someone, because that's all they ever do! They just lie about things! (Yes, I am only making fun of you!)
Talk about hypopcrisy! DRLH right there for you!

Exactly who was it who said that first quote? It was ultra conservative! So much for your "evidence"! Once again you have put words into my mouth. Is that really the only way that you stand a chance against PL?
 

galenrox

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Peralin said:
Guess what, PC? You have just completely lied. Right here:

"P: I Mean If That Were The Case,when Does It Become A Child.
S: At birth.
P: now that I know that steen believes that life begins at birth."

WRONG! I never said that first part, so don't make stuff up about me! It's no surprise that a PC would continually misquote someone, because that's all they ever do! They just lie about things! (Yes, I am only making fun of you!)
Talk about hypopcrisy! DRLH right there for you!

Exactly who was it who said that first quote? It was ultra conservative! So much for your "evidence"! Once again you have put words into my mouth. Is that really the only way that you stand a chance against PL?
Why are you guys arguing about this ****? I mean seriously, "I didn't say that?" "Oh yeah, well I didn't say this so thus you obviously said that", I've go a question: so the **** what?
 

Peralin

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galenrox said:
Why are you guys arguing about this ****? I mean seriously, "I didn't say that?" "Oh yeah, well I didn't say this so thus you obviously said that", I've go a question: so the **** what?

I agree, this is stupid. But its the only way that Steen thinks he can beat me. And he's being such a hypocrite that I felt like I had to reveal his lies. But maybe your right, maybe I am wasting my time. It seems as if Steen will always be hypocritical.
 

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Response to, "Most women put themselves in that situation"

(Should I even bother responding to this? Most people are probably wisely ignoring this comment.)
In any case, I'll shoot. To begin with you are admitting you are the kind of person who justifies raping women if they go to their boyfriends apartment for dinner at 6 0'clock in the evening, but ok, we can start there. So assuming rape is justified if the woman "asks for it" by wearing a skirt that's too short, walking into an office with her boss alone when he calls her in for a meeting, going out with friends for a drink and getting slipped a rufie or however you spell it. Who decides exactly when a woman is "putting herself in that situation", as you so aptly put it? Where exactly can I work that I will not be "putting myself in that situation"? You are basically saying that all men are rapists and women should know better than to ever be in a room alone with a man lest she bring about his crazed lust upon herself. At what point in dating are you allowed to spend time alone with a man, and what actions are "rapeworthy"? Please enlighten me, do give a detailed description lest I bring this horrible fate upon myself and shame my family and my self.
 

steen

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Peralin said:
Guess what, PC? You have just completely lied. Right here:

"P: I Mean If That Were The Case,when Does It Become A Child.
S: At birth.
P: now that I know that steen believes that life begins at birth."

WRONG! I never said that first part, so don't make stuff up about me! It's no surprise that a PC would continually misquote someone, because that's all they ever do! They just lie about things! (Yes, I am only making fun of you!)
YES, TO NOT DEAL WITH YOUR OUTRIGHT LIE ABOUT HOW I THEN CLAIMED THAT "LIFE" BEGINS AT BIRTH.
Exactly who was it who said that first quote? It was ultra conservative!
Ah, you are right. You merely picked up the conversation from there, accusiong me of claiming life didn't start until birth, when my reply to UC was about when there was a child.

So the result actually is the same. You still lied.
So much for your "evidence"! Once again you have put words into my mouth.
Ah, yes, the initial question was a reply to UC, and I was wrong to attribute it to you. Now, when I answered him that the "child" begins at birth, it was STILL you who lied and claimed me stating that "life" begins at birth.
So you still lied. :roll:

But you are not going to admit to your LIE, are you?
 

steen

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galenrox said:
Why are you guys arguing about this ****? I mean seriously, "I didn't say that?" "Oh yeah, well I didn't say this so thus you obviously said that", I've go a question: so the **** what?
I don't like to be lied about.
 

steen

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galenrox said:
Why are you guys arguing about this ****?
I agree, this is stupid. But its the only way that Peralin thinks he can beat me. And he's being such a hypocrite that I felt like I had to reveal his lies. But maybe your right, maybe I am wasting my time. It seems as if Peralin will always be hypocritical.
 

Peralin

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steen said:
I agree, this is stupid. But its the only way that Peralin thinks he can beat me. And he's being such a hypocrite that I felt like I had to reveal his lies. But maybe your right, maybe I am wasting my time. It seems as if Peralin will always be hypocritical.


Fine, I don't even know what lie you are taliking about, but I don't even care. It doesn't make any difference. I still feel like I'm arguiong with a 7-year-old, so I'll just move on and argue about other things.
 

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Peralin said:
Give it up, Verge. You know that we believe that life starts at conception, and, if you read the entire thread, you'd see that we already distinguished the difference between a fetus and sperm/egg.

I know you believe that. Why? What's to special about the two necessary parts colliding that instantly makes it human life?
 

Peralin

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vergiss said:
I know you believe that. Why? What's to special about the two necessary parts colliding that instantly makes it human life?

I don't know. Actually, you could've corrected me. I believe that there is no life until the brain begins to form. Sorry for the confusion. However, the way I see it, if there is no body for the brain to develop in, it will not develop at all. So if the abortion happens before the brain begins to develop, I do not consider it murder. It is more preventing life then taking it. So it is not causing a death, just preventing a life.

I do not know if anyone else in the world agrees with my belief, and this is a new belief for me. But it is currently what I believe, and I will continue to fight against abortion.
 

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Peralin said:
I don't know. Actually, you could've corrected me. I believe that there is no life until the brain begins to form. Sorry for the confusion. However, the way I see it, if there is no body for the brain to develop in, it will not develop at all. So if the abortion happens before the brain begins to develop, I do not consider it murder. It is more preventing life then taking it. So it is not causing a death, just preventing a life.

I do not know if anyone else in the world agrees with my belief, and this is a new belief for me. But it is currently what I believe, and I will continue to fight against abortion.

Right. And at what point does the brain begin to form? Do you mean literally begin, or just starts to function? The majority of abortions are performed around between the 5 - 10 week mark. Seeing as embryos at that stage of development still have tails, I doubt that brain function is present.

Same goes for what your definition of a "body" is.

ultra conservative said:
Most(but Definitely Not All)of The Time When A Women Gets Raped She Put Herself In That Situation,she Chooses Where To Go,work,live,and Eat.

You could write a book entitled How To Utterly Destroy Your Crediblity In 5 Seconds or Less. Disgusting, moronic pig.
 

Peralin

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vergiss said:
Disgusting, moronic pig.

You shouldn't be talking Vergiss. You're the one who makes a living by killing children.
 
Last edited:

Peralin

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vergiss said:
Right. And at what point does the brain begin to form? Do you mean literally begin, or just starts to function? The majority of abortions are performed around between the 5 - 10 week mark. Seeing as embryos at that stage of development still have tails, I doubt that brain function is present.

Same goes for what your definition of a "body" is.

It doesn't matter wehen the brain begins to function. That just means that the child is concious. I believe that the child is alive before it is concious.

"Week 3
beginning development of the brain, spinal cord, and heart"

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm

So any time after week three, I believe that abortionist kill children. Any time before week three, abortion prevents the child from living at all, which is just as bad.
 

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I DONT NO HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO SAY THIS! 8 WEEKS PREGNANT IS NOT A BABY! ITS A FOETUS! I DONT AGREE ON LATER ABORTIONS BUT IF YOU ARE 8-12 WEEKS PREGANT THEN DO WHAT YOU WANT. WE LIVE IN 2005! STOP THE RELIGIOUS CRAP AND THINK ABOUT PEOPLES FEELINGS!

:2wave:
 

jamesrage

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posted by pissy blonde
I DONT NO HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO SAY THIS! 8 WEEKS PREGNANT IS NOT A BABY! ITS A FOETUS! I DONT AGREE ON LATER ABORTIONS BUT IF YOU ARE 8-12 WEEKS PREGANT THEN DO WHAT YOU WANT. WE LIVE IN 2005! STOP THE RELIGIOUS CRAP AND THINK ABOUT PEOPLES FEELINGS!

Religion has little to do with being against abortion.As far as I am concerned murdering scumbag abortionist need to be draged out in the street and beat to death for the murder of all the innocence they killed and helped killed,all those who support this monstrocity should be beat to death as well.So go hang out with your nazi friends and speculate how you can carry on this government sanctioned murder and how you can get more people to go along with this euginics.http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/eugenics/
 

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ProChoiceDanielle said:
Huh? How would you like it?

This question is especially aimed at Pro life MEN. How would you like to be pregnant against your will?
ONLY a rape case would qualify. If I messed around and slipped up with someone I liked at least enough to let him into my goodies(or invite him in) I would stand up to my responsibilities and pay the piper for the song I've been freely enjoying. Rape victims will get no guff from me about an abortion, as they truly are pregnant against their will, and carrying a rapist's child would, to me, be like getting raped again every day of the pregnancy. I will quote a pro-choicer I've been arguing with of late: "I think there should be candy machines full of RU-486 in every gas station in America." I agree. This would make the entire abortion debate moot. It would terminate a possible pregnancy in a stage that is no more traumatic physically for the mother than her menstrual cycle, it would rescue the child from even the most zealotous pro-lifer's definition of pain and it would definitely ease the lifelong emotional damage to the woman. Unfortunately, I also think it would lead to an explosion of promiscuity and STD's. But when was the last time you got the good without the bad?
 
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