How would Dems thwart the Iranian threat?

[ptsdkid]

We all know, or we all should know that the Iranians pose a greater threat to worldwide peace (because of their nuclear capabilities) than Iraq does, and that Iran has been supplying Iraq with much of the insurgency through unprotected borders.

Lets take the onus off of George Bush's strategies of dealing with the Imajihadist of Iran for a moment, by speculating that Iran's dictator holds off pushing the nuclear button until February of 2009 when Hillary is fully ensconced as America's 44th president by occupying the suite at 1600 Penn Ave. Besides Hillary's annoitment as president--the Dems will have secured the majority in Congress and the Senate respectively.

So I ask you Dems and liberals alike; what would be your strategy(s) (if any) in dealing with this 21st century bout with nuclear terrorism?

 

[Gibberish]

Did you just happen to see my post and though it wasn't partisan enough for you likings? Did I not say liberal enough times?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/17810-what-should-we-do-about-iran.html

 

[Navy Pride]

I voted other.......I think they would raise the white flag of surrender like they want to do in Iraq..............

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Well first I think they would have to realize there was a threat which I don't think they do.

But if they realized the threat I think they would do the same thing they did in Iraq, they would come out in full support of the war, vote to send our troops into harms way, fail to vote for their funding, and then when our troops are fighting and dying for the war they voted for they would pretend they were against it the whole time and start calling our troops war criminals akin to Nazi's.

 

[Gibberish]

But if they realized the threat I think they would do the same thing they did in Iraq, they would come out in full support of the war, vote to send our troops into harms way, fail to vote for their funding, and then when our troops are fighting and dying for the war they voted for they would pretend they were against it the whole time and start calling our troops war criminals akin to Nazi's.

I'm sure that wouldn't need to occur because there would be parades and flowers in the streets of Iran as we are greated as liberators and welcome with open arms.

 

[Iriemon]

Well first I think they would have to realize there was a threat which I don't think they do.

But if they realized the threat I think they would do the same thing they did in Iraq, they would come out in full support of the war, vote to send our troops into harms way, fail to vote for their funding, and then when our troops are fighting and dying for the war they voted for they would pretend they were against it the whole time and start calling our troops war criminals akin to Nazi's.

Jeez I sure hoped they learned the lesson not to trust Bush from Iraq, and would not support another war based on his "mistakes".

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Jeez I sure hoped they learned the lesson not to trust Bush from Iraq, and would not support another war based on his "mistakes".

The Iranians are uprfront about there nuclear program, they have one, it produces weapons grade uranium, that is a fact, and we did not start this war we are already at war with Iran they are aiding in the murder of our soldiers in Iraq.

 

[Iriemon]

The Iranians are uprfront about there nuclear program, they have one, it produces weapons grade uranium, that is a fact, and we did not start this war we are already at war with Iran they are aiding in the murder of our soldiers in Iraq.

It is the last phrase that there seems to be some question about.

I certainly disagree we are at war with Iran, much as it might get you excited to think so. Those nukes sure would look cool going off, wouldn't they?

 

[desertfox]

If were still gunna be in iraq no matter what bush should grow a pair and not take this from iran. We are still the most powerful nation in the world we may not be able to fight an actual war against them (not that we would want to) but we could bomb the living hell out of them if they dont stop aiding insurgents in iraq. And i thought bush was a cowboy.

 

[Iriemon]

If were still gunna be in iraq no matter what bush should grow a pair and not take this from iran. We are still the most powerful nation in the world we may not be able to fight an actual war against them (not that we would want to) but we could bomb the living hell out of them if they dont stop aiding insurgents in iraq. And i thought bush was a cowboy.

What would you think that would make them stop aiding insurgents, if they actually are, or that they wouldn't thereafter do it more?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

What would you think that would make them stop aiding insurgents, if they actually are, or that they wouldn't thereafter do it more?

This is like saying we shouldn't fight crime because it doesn't stop crime completely. We have been attacked it demands a response not just idle words.

 

[Iriemon]

This is like saying we shouldn't fight crime because it doesn't stop crime completely. We have been attacked it demands a response not just idle words.

You fight the crime that poses a danger, IMO. Good argument for why marajuana should be legalized. We shouldn't fight the crime.

How were we attacked?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

You fight the crime that poses a danger, IMO. Good argument for why marajuana should be legalized. We shouldn't fight the crime.

How were we attacked?

The Iranians are supporting the insurgency with arms and the advanced IEDs that our killing our soldiers.

 

[EAGLE1]

Fair enough. Why on earth would Iran want to make things easy for you there? After all, youve been theyre enemy since 1953.

 

[desertfox]

The Iranians are supporting the insurgency with arms and the advanced IEDs that our killing our soldiers.

i agree, i may be against being in iraq but as long as we are we gotta make sure our soldiers are protected as best as we can

 

[Iriemon]

The Iranians are supporting the insurgency with arms and the advanced IEDs that our killing our soldiers.

What is the basis for asserting that? Anything other than what the Bush Administration claims?

Why would Shiite Iran supply the insurgents, who are sunnis? Or is the insurgency made up on Shiites now too?

 

[Iriemon]

Do you have any specific criticisms of the Bush Administration's claims, other than them coming from the Bush administration.

In trial, what do we use as a means of proving guilt? Means, motive, and evidence. Means, well they certainly have a lot of shared border with Iraq, which are very difficult to close even when you can afford to make them a primary focus, which, as we are also fighting the insurgents that are already in Iraq, we cannot. Motive, well, they benefit in just about every way from prolonging American presence in Iraq, in that it weakens America and it makes Americans stand more steadfastly against any further serious military commitments (as a product of which, Iran can get away with a whole hell of a lot more, as it requires more to justify the type of military conflict Iran intends on making any kind of military conflict to the American public). Evidence, I don't know, the Bush administration claims to have evidence, I haven't really looked into their claims, but I also have not heard anyone really disputing the validity of the claims, which is something I'd expect to hear were they not based on serious evidence, but that doesn't mean all that much.

But yeah, we know we have everything other than evidence, so if there is any actual evidence, we can more or less assume that they're doing it.

That is why I asked, because people are now making claims about Iran similar to the kind of stuff that was being flug around about Iraq.

If you want to believe this administration's claims as to "evidence" it has, that is certainly your perogative. IMO, this administration has demonstrated a lack of objectivity and veracity regarding claims it makes, both in general and particularly about ME nations, and I am certainly unwilling to believe its assertions about Iran based merely on its claims that it has "evidence." And it certainly isn't enough to justify claiming we are at war with Iran or a justification for nuking Iran, IMO.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

What is the basis for asserting that? Anything other than what the Bush Administration claims?

Nope we have physical evidence:

Intelligence Officials Say Weapons Responsible for Increasing U.S. Deaths in Iraq

"The signature is the same because they are exactly the same in production," says explosives expert Kevin Barry. "So it's the same make and model."

U.S. officials say roadside bomb attacks against American forces in Iraq have become much more deadly as more and more of the Iran-designed and Iran-produced bombs have been smuggled in from the country since last October.

"I think the evidence is strong that the Iranian government is making these IEDs, and the Iranian government is sending them across the border and they are killing U.S. troops once they get there," says Richard Clarke, former White House counterterrorism chief and an ABC News consultant. "I think it's very hard to escape the conclusion that, in all probability, the Iranian government is knowingly killing U.S. troops."

ABC News: EXCLUSIVE: Iraq Weapons -- Made in Iran?

Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militias

WASHINGTON, Nov. 30, 2006 — U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.

This suggests, say the sources, that the material is going directly from Iranian factories to Shia militias, rather than taking a roundabout path through the black market. "There is no way this could be done without (Iranian) government approval," says a senior official.

Iranian-made munitions found in Iraq include advanced IEDs designed to pierce armor and anti-tank weapons. U.S. intelligence believes the weapons have been supplied to Iraq's growing Shia militias from Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, which is also believed to be training Iraqi militia fighters in Iran.

ABC News: EXCLUSIVE: Iranian Weapons Arm Iraqi Militia

Why would Shiite Iran supply the insurgents, who are sunnis? Or is the insurgency made up on Shiites now too?

They are supporting Sadr army.

 

[Misfit]

Before I answer, is there an Iranian threat? Or is this like the Iraqi threat and more smoke and mirriors?

 

[Inuyasha]

The Iranians are reacting the way they should if there is anything such as logic left in this world.

First: They have an alien power from outside of the region, half way across the globe carrying on aggressive warfare in the two nations that border their own. This is enough to start ringing alarm bells anywhere on the planet.

Suppose for a moment, that the Chinese had invaded both Canada and Mexico. How would the government and the majority of the people in this country react? This is precisely the situation the Iranians find themselves in, is it not.?

Please don't tell me about bringing democracy to a country of 70 million people who have a history reaching back 4000 years. We do not know if our style democracy will work for them. It almost doesn't work for us. Another point is all the countries we helped to liberate did NOT choose American style democracy but rather the British or French form which seems to fit homogeneous nations better than ours.

We must neutralize Iran because they present a threat to the US. We are an actual threat to them. We have them surrounded and we are making war and saber rattling right next door to them.

They are a nuclear threat to us and their neighbors. There is no proof that they have a nuclear weapon in their arsenal and military estimates say under the present condition it will take them 10 years and then they won't have a delivery system that could threaten us.

We, on the other hand, have most of the world's nuclear weapons and we have had a delivery system since 1945 and we have used a powerful nuclear twice in our history and that is two times more than any other country.. The Iranians are, as is the rest of the world, completely aware of these facts. And to those people, those facts are frightening as they well should be.

But in the final analysis we are already at war with Iran. They are preparing their defenses. We are at war because the powers that be in the US have decided it Look at how more than 50% of us are talking. We are talking about Iran and war in the present tense not the future or subjective.

 

[Iriemon]

Man, if neither of us knows anything about the credibility of these specific claims, then neither of us has justification to believe that they're either true or not true, we just simply do not know.
So we can talk about the administration's credibility, and I'd differ from you, in that I think that the administration's claims lack as much objectivity as they can politically afford (in that people approach claims with more critical minds the less they trust the administration, and one of their greatest faults has been abusing the faith that has been repeatedly put in them. That being said, that would also lead us to the conclusion that, considering the current political climate towards the Bush administration, more than likely they're not gonna come forward with anything that, once it's examined by critics of the administration, would further validate the notion that the public, as a whole, can't trust them.

In other words, since they have made not credible statements in the past, we should believe them now because they wouldn't do it again knowing their credibility has been questioned.

I'm not sure I agree with that line of reasoning.

 

[Iriemon]

Nope we have physical evidence:

They are supporting Sadr army.

Did you read your own articles?

U.S. military and intelligence officials tell ...

What the United States says ...

U.S. officials say ...

U.S. intelligence officials say ...

U.S. officials say ...

Other that "US officials say" there is a reference to a Kevin Barry. Who is Kevin Barry?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Did you read your own articles?

U.S. military and intelligence officials tell ...

What the United States says ...

U.S. officials say ...

U.S. intelligence officials say ...

U.S. officials say ...

Other that "US officials say" there is a reference to a Kevin Barry. Who is Kevin Barry?

Ya and your point is? What other officials would be commenting on the Iranians killing our troops unless I suppose you believe the Iranian officials right?

 

[Iriemon]

Ya and your point is? What other officials would be commenting on the Iranians killing our troops unless I suppose you believe the Iranian officials right?

Ya and my point is I don't trust this administration, because they have bullshitted us too many times.

 

[Inuyasha]

have you looked into it?