How would a Christian nation defend itself against oppression?

[soylentgreen]

I was going to respond and decided to wait and see what others you got.

And they have their own armed guard. However...are there any civilians living in the Vatican or only bureaucrats? Administrators, spoiled cardinals and bishops. etc?

Yes, a complete cast of ordinary citizens that are needed to run a city. Bankers , bakers, waiters etc. And in italy itself atheism runs at around 10+ %. Would doubt that many of them would be in the vatican city itself. But then again does a christian country need to be fully 100% christian in order to classed as a christian country.

 

[Valery]

Well, if we are to take history as a guide: they would certainly fight, just not very well. And in all likelihood go to war with another Christian nation because the other nation may be of a different brand of Christianity. Usually, the side with the greater numbers and or a competent general or two would win.

To be honest, I don't think this question is very well thought out as it makes a lot of assumptions. Namely, that Christianity isn't really one religion, but several different sides to the same idea.

I'm pretty sure it's you who just made that assumption, not me. Never mind politics, but how could Christians go to war and justify it with only the New Testament? Which is what most of them accept while they reject the old one.

 

[Kiwimac]

The Christians are always pushing what they suppose to be peace&love verses at us. What would happen to a Christian nation if it came under serious oppression and perhaps even full war? Would they survive without the help of the disbelievers who can "raise the sword"?

1: Only a person can be a Christian, a nation cannot.
2: Jesus clearly taught that a follower of His had no 'right' to defend themselves.
3: Some Christian groups have always been pacifist.
4: You seem to be confusing Western nations with Christian nations; they are not the same and never have been.

 

[Valery]

1: Only a person can be a Christian, a nation cannot.
2: Jesus clearly taught that a follower of His had no 'right' to defend themselves.
3: Some Christian groups have always been pacifist.
4: You seem to be confusing Western nations with Christian nations; they are not the same and never have been.

1. False 2. Ok
3.whatevr.4.nope.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Valery]

It seems to be impossible to get any answers when it comes to Christianity, that would somehow, even if weakly, support Christianity.

 

[Kiwimac]

1. False 2. Ok
3.whatevr.4.nope.

You didn't answer the question.

Nope, not false at all. Only an individual can be called 'Christian.' A nation can base it's ethics on Christian teachings but that is all.

There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.

 

[Kiwimac]

It seems to be impossible to get any answers when it comes to Christianity, that would somehow, even if weakly, support Christianity.

Not at all. Both Christianity and Islam require an individual response to God. You can no more have a nation stand and recite the Shahahda than a nation can be baptised or confirmed.

 

[tosca1]

Yes. I find it irritating.

I see. My op was not devoid of sarcasm. I know some Christians find it hard to talk about the other side of Christianity openly.

Perhaps because they don't understand it and don't want to look stupid.

I was simply exaggerating my point by pointing out the general attitude that I see from Christians, with all the verses they quote and all their interpretations and excuses and "liberal" views, would leave them absolutely helpless in real life.



Do all religion doctrines being followed by all self-identifying members?

You claim to be a Muslim - are you a jihadist?

Do you support those who kill in the name of Allah?

This particularly because when Christians slander Islam, they always complain about war and all acts of punishment and violence.
You can tell them a million times that it is justified — they will never accept it.

So you see, such people cannot admit that Christianity permits warring. They would have to come up with a whole new excuse for rejecting islam.

let's be clear about this:

You're saying.....terrorism in the name of Allah is justified?

 

[tosca1]

Hmm..... I guess Christians must have missed that message about “not forcing their religion on others” for the past..... thousand years or so.

Hmmmmmm.......I guess you must've missed the important message that.............. you don't paint everyone with the same brush?

That would make you a bigot in this day and age. :shrug:

 

[tosca1]

I'm pretty sure it's you who just made that assumption, not me. Never mind politics, but how could Christians go to war and justify it with only the New Testament? Which is what most of them accept while they reject the old one.

Christians don't reject the Old Testament!

The Old Testament is very much a part of the New Testament! :doh
The Old Testament is part of the history of Christianity. The New testament is the continuation of the Old!



Why do you think Jesus has been quoting from the

Old Testament in His sermons? DUH?



Do you even know that? I guess, not!





It would be like in a forum - with Jesus quoting from the Old Testament as His SOURCE! :mrgreen:


Lol. You're ignorant of Christianity!

 

[Valery]

Do all religion doctrines being followed by all self-identifying members?

Not a coherent sentence.

You claim to be a Muslim - are you a jihadist?

I don't know what is a "jihadist".

Do you support those who kill in the name of Allah?

I don't know what you think it means to "kill in the name of Allah".

let's be clear about this:

You're saying.....terrorism in the name of Allah is justified?

I don't know what that means either.

 

[tosca1]

Not a coherent sentence.
I don't know what is a "jihadist".
I don't know what you think it means to "kill in the name of Allah". I don't know what that means either.

Being a Muslim, you don't know?


....and you know squat about Christianity!




Well - what do you know? :lol:

 

[Tigerace117]

Hmmmmmm.......I guess you must've missed the important message that.............. you don't paint everyone with the same brush?

That would make you a bigot in this day and age. :shrug:

Funny how conservative Christians never have a problem with “painting everyone with the same brush” when talking about Muslims.....or members of any other religion, for that matter.

Your posturing is meaningless.

 

[bongsaway]

Become an atheist. No religious problems other than religious folks trying to shove their religion down our throats.

 

[tosca1]

Funny how conservative Christians never have a problem with “painting everyone with the same brush” when talking about Muslims.....or members of any other religion, for that matter.

From referring to all Christians....now, you say, "CONSERVATIVE Christians."


Lol. Just because you modified your previous sweeping statement to making a sweeping statement specifically about "conservative Christians" doesn't mean you're not painting everyone with the same brush. :lol:
All conservative Christians, that is. :lamo



You don't get it. That would still make you a bigot in this day and age. :shrug:

Your posturing is meaningless.

Not to you, obviously.


I got you to modify your statement, right?

 

[Daisy]

1: Only a person can be a Christian, a nation cannot.
2: Jesus clearly taught that a follower of His had no 'right' to defend themselves.
3: Some Christian groups have always been pacifist.
4: You seem to be confusing Western nations with Christian nations; they are not the same and never have been.

Well said...

 

[OlNate]

The best defense against oppression is democracy.

I'm starting to wonder. America has been rife with oppression since it's birth.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Christians are no less militant than any other religion.

I think you can point to what happened after the Jewish Holocaust. The very passive jewish people took up arms and the current state of Israel is very much conscious of protecting and defending its people and their right to exist.

 

[lwf]

I'm starting to wonder. America has been rife with oppression since it's birth.

Less so than a great many other nations nowadays. America's dirty laundry is just more accessible to the world because Americans are free to air it.

 

[tosca1]

Originally Posted by Kiwimac View Post
2: Jesus clearly taught that a follower of His had no 'right' to defend themselves.
3: Some Christian groups have always been pacifist.

Well said...

The Christians are always pushing what they suppose to be peace&love verses at us. What would happen to a Christian nation if it came under serious oppression and perhaps even full war? Would they survive without the help of the disbelievers who can "raise the sword"?

I would like to help you understand some misinformation about Christianity.

Don't ever believe others who say Jesus was a "pacifist." They don't understand the definition of pacifism, one of which states as refusal to bear arms, and opposition to violence of war for any purpose.


As I've already shown you - the disciples of Jesus were carrying SWORDS - not knives, but swords - that's the weapon of the time!
Therefore, the reason for it would be for protection or self-defense!

If they're living today in the USA - we can reasonably assume that they'd be packing guns! They were BEARING ARMS.




Here are other verses from the Scriptures that describe Jesus. These do not describe someone who's a "pacifist."

...given some of the Bible’s prophecies of Jesus, it is hard to call Him a pacifist. Revelation 19:15, speaking of Jesus, declares, “Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter.’ He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.”

The setting up of Jesus’ millennial kingdom will necessitate violence in the form of a war waged against the forces of the Antichrist.
Jesus’ robe will be “dipped in blood” (Revelation 19:13).

Was Jesus a pacifist? | GotQuestions.org



Therefore - we can't say that Jesus is opposed to war and violence!




Jesus and John the Baptist never preached to centurions/soldiers to lay down their arms.



Matthew 8

The Faith of a Centurion

5 When he had entered Capernaum, a centurion came forward to him, appealing to him,
6 “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, suffering terribly.”
7 And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.”
8 But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but lonly say the word, and my servant will be healed.
9 For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.
11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,
12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.



Luke 3

14 Soldiers also asked him, “And we, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation,
and be content with your wages.”


What are soldiers for if not to use in wars? Why were they not told to leave the service or to change jobs?
Why were they not told to refrain from killing?

The book of Ecclesiastes presents life’s balance of contrasting activities: “There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: . . . a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, . . . a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace” (Ecclesiastes 3:1, 3, and 8).
These are not the words of a pacifist.

Was Jesus a pacifist? | GotQuestions.org




A pacifist would naturally avoid conflict - much so creating it ........after all, don't conflicts create wars?
Does this statement seem anywhere like Jesus is a pacifist?



“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
‘For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;
and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD’” (Matthew 10:34–36).

 

[Guyzilla]

It's great, but we're talking about the hypothetical situation of a Christian nation being under severe oppression.

By whom or what?

 

[Guyzilla]

No. A hypothetical nation that follows the Christian principles. A nation filled with Christians who follow Christian principles.

WHAT are Christian principles?

 

[Tigerace117]

From referring to all Christians....now, you say, "CONSERVATIVE Christians."


Lol. Just because you modified your previous sweeping statement to making a sweeping statement specifically about "conservative Christians" doesn't mean you're not painting everyone with the same brush. :lol:
All conservative Christians, that is. :lamo



You don't get it. That would still make you a bigot in this day and age. :shrug:








Not to you, obviously.


I got you to modify your statement, right?

Conservative Christians are especially guilty, but Christians in general do it all the time. That’s just the facts, and no amount of poorly formatted posts from you changes that.

 

[noonereal]

How would a Christian nation defend itself against oppression?

Kill, of course!

 

[tosca1]

Originally Posted by Kiwimac View Post
2: Jesus clearly taught that a follower of His had no 'right' to defend themselves.
3: Some Christian groups have always been pacifist.

Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
Well said...

Originally Posted by Valery View Post
The Christians are always pushing what they suppose to be peace&love verses at us. What would happen to a Christian nation if it came under serious oppression and perhaps even full war? Would they survive without the help of the disbelievers who can "raise the sword"?

Did I forget to mention that we're supposed to defend the oppressed? If people are being slaughtered before you?
What happens if words are not enough to stop the oppression?
Just throw your hands up in the air and say, "Okay. We tried....."


A pacifist will avoid creating any conflicts.
Jesus never shied away from conflicts - remember how He lambasted the Pharisees/Saducces?
Would a pacifist do what He did? No.

A pacifist will never stir a hornet's nest!