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How to renew America's democracy

Geez, I was trying to show how a Representative Democracy functions in both a Constitutional Monarchy and a Constitutional Republic

ie: you can be (and often are) both




No, you can't have a Direct Democracy because it's way too impractical at national level - as I explained
You can, and do, occasionally have direct democracy in single issue votes (or plebiscites) - notably in California




OK
But in what Western democracy is that not true ?



You seem to think, from your previous post, that we have a choice to be a Democracy OR a Republic - that they are competing systems of government
Do you accept thsat this is not the case and that a country can be both - and frequently is ?
Geez, what is it that you are not comprehending.
It's why I specifically started the post with 'Definition of Democracy, and Definition of Republic"... you seem so eager to contradict, that you skipped over the fact of the basics of definitions.

I don't disagree with the specific you are addressing, the point was...

We are a Representative Democracy, and Chose a Republic FORM of Governing..... which means.... "the power is held by the people and the people delegate that power to whom they elect to represent their voice. It is up to the people, to hold that representative accountable to represent their voice. There are some instances, where people vote directly on public matters, but that is not the over-riding methodology of a Representative governing system.
 
Geez, what is it that you are not comprehending.
It's why I specifically started the post with 'Definition of Democracy, and Definition of Republic"... you seem so eager to contradict, that you skipped over the fact of the basics of definitions.

Geez, what are you not getting ?

You definition of a "Republic" is completely wrong. You just made it up didn't you
It certainly didn't come from any reputable book on politics

And yet you seem to admit that a country can be BOTH a Representative Democracy AND a Republic

What is the difference, in your mind, between a Constitutional Republic and a Constitutional Monarchy ?


We are a Representative Democracy, and Chose a Republic FORM of Governing..... which means.... "the power is held by the people and the people delegate that power to whom they elect to represent their voice. It is up to the people, to hold that representative accountable to represent their voice. There are some instances, where people vote directly on public matters, but that is not the over-riding methodology of a Representative governing system.

No, that is NOT a definition of a Republic, it is a definition of ANY Representative Democracy
Whether they have a President (either style) or a Constitutional Monarch.
 
Geez, what are you not getting ?

You definition of a "Republic" is completely wrong. You just made it up didn't you
It certainly didn't come from any reputable book on politics

And yet you seem to admit that a country can be BOTH a Representative Democracy AND a Republic

What is the difference, in your mind, between a Constitutional Republic and a Constitutional Monarchy ?




No, that is NOT a definition of a Republic, it is a definition of ANY Representative Democracy
Whether they have a President (either style) or a Constitutional Monarch.


Definition of: REPUBLIC


1a(1): a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
(2): a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
b(1): a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law
(2): a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government



Definition of: DEMOCRACY

1a: government by the people especially : rule of the majority
b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2: a political unit that has a democratic government

(We are both saying the same thing, I don't see why you are not gathering that)
 
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Geez, what are you not getting ?

You definition of a "Republic" is completely wrong. You just made it up didn't you
It certainly didn't come from any reputable book on politics

And yet you seem to admit that a country can be BOTH a Representative Democracy AND a Republic

What is the difference, in your mind, between a Constitutional Republic and a Constitutional Monarchy ?




No, that is NOT a definition of a Republic, it is a definition of ANY Representative Democracy
Whether they have a President (either style) or a Constitutional Monarch.

You ask:
What is the difference, in your mind, between a Constitutional Republic and a Constitutional Monarchy ?

  • Both work within the framework of a "Constitution".
________________________________________________________________________________________
Constitutional monarchy:
A Constitutional Monarchy is a form of monarchy in which the sovereign exercises authority in accordance with a written or unwritten constitution.

Absolute monarchy is a form of monarchy in which the monarch holds supreme autocratic authority, principally not being restricted by written laws, legislature, or customs.

____________________________________

Constitutional Republic
A Constitutional Republic is a state where the chief executive and representatives are democratically elected by the people, and the rules are set down in a written constitution.
 
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OP effectively displaying major Cognitive Dissonance .

He wanted to engineer a progression , Better > Good > Biden > Himself , but got badly stuck .

There is nothing to progress the Biden part except a Bill originally started by Republicans , albeit finalised with Blue Bow decorations rather than Red ones

It is clearly desperately important for him to make a direct personal connection with Biden but he has no big weapon to do it with . Desperation then takes over .

So lame . So contrived .
Come on Man. What parts of the relief package came from the R's?
 
Definition of: REPUBLIC
1a(1): a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president

That's it, by itself
So if Canada was to replace the Queen as head of state, by an elected president, it would instantly become a Republic, with absolutely NO other changes

Definition of: DEMOCRACY

1a: government by the people especially : rule of the majority

And there are two kinds as explained: Direct/Pure and Representative/Indirect

Your earlier definition of a Republic covered pretty much EVERY Westernized democracy


....difference between a Constitutional Republic and a Constitutional Monarchy ?

  • Both work within the framework of a "Constitution".


ALL governments have a constitution
Only Constitutional governments have a written constitution
And generally only Republics have a written constitution in a single document - though the Netherlands is an exception being a Constitutional Monarchy with a written constitution in a single document


Constitutional monarchy:
A Constitutional Monarchy is a form of monarchy in which the sovereign exercises authority in accordance with a written or unwritten constitution.

Absolute monarchy
Absolute monarchy is a form of monarchy in which the monarch holds supreme autocratic authority, principally not being restricted by written laws, legislature, or customs.

Constitutional Republic
A Constitutional Republic is a state where the chief executive and representatives are democratically elected by the people, and the rules are set down in a written constitution.


Not quite
In a Constitutional Monarchy, the representatives in the legislature are also elected

So the only difference between a Constitutional Monarchy and a Constitutional Republic is that the head of state is selected by birthright in the former and by election (by the people generally) in the latter.

Apart from how the HoS is selected, there is no difference.
 
Trump tried to convert us to a
(Absolute monarchy
Absolute monarchy is a form of monarchy in which the monarch holds supreme autocratic authority, principally not being restricted by written laws, legislature, or customs.)

With himself using the word "President" but he actually wanted to be and function like a Monarch!!! He had delusion that he could pass it on to Ivanka. He ignored written laws, had no regard for the legislature and certainly had no concern for customs, norm or policy. Heck, he went so far as using Twitter as if it was some form of Presidential decision promotion tool. He even said, "why can't Americans defer to the President the way N. Koreans defer all authority to Kim, or to be like Putin, who pretends to let people vote, but he functions like he is an absolute monarch.
Trump and the Republicans, through the malice and madness they made have forced people to learn more about "Civics of American Democracy and its Republic Form of Governing.


As soon as we diminish the number of Republican in the Senate and Strengthen the numbers in the House. We can make the modification that are needed to the Articles of the Constitution and improve the Amendments and make new ones as needed, to ensure that we don't have any more "Melomaniac driven by his lust for Autocratic Plutocracy, where he makes himself into a Monarch, trying to Usurp American Democracy and its Republic form of governing.

We need to tear up the documents created after the Nixon mess, of saying a President can't be indicted and brought up on charges while in office. (we should not make it where anyone can just conjure up stuff to indicate and charge... but we have smart enough minds, who can craft the language where it is less able to be easily abused.)

We also need to get rid of the Federalist Society.... Because the Supreme Court should Respect The Preamble, Know why the Declaration of Independence was created and know that the Articles of the Constitution and its Amendments has a duty to meet and advance the principles and values laid out in The Preamble and uphold the laws within political party leanings.

The Law of Treason, must be expanded, to deal with Treason from within and upon and against our own system. This needs to encompass, internal economic treason against our own industrial/business stability, as well against our system of American Democracy, and against our Elected Representative.

Then, for sure we need "State, Federal and Local Campaign Financing". We also need to no longer consider corporation as "person" !!! It is an abuse that cause and creates inequity in relation to the Democratic principles of "One Person, One Vote. Then, Corporations won't be able to put money into "buying away the voice of the people".

We have lots of work to do, because people are more skilled at manipulating and bastardizing the systems, which has been done over 100's of years, and we have to build safeguards against such.

We don't need to toss out the Great Framework of American Democracy and its Republic form of governing. We need the people to learn and understand, what was bastardized, why it was bastardized and how we need to make changes to fix it.
 
Trump tried to convert us to a
(Absolute monarchy
Absolute monarchy is a form of monarchy in which the monarch holds supreme autocratic authority, principally not being restricted by written laws, legislature, or customs.)


No, because it didn't follow that his son Don Jr (or any of Trump's children) would assume the presidency on Trump's death
It was more like a non-constitutional republic like Saddam's Iraq, or the USSR or any number of African countries like Zimbabwe under Mugabe, Libya under Gadhafi or Egypt under Mubarak - they have presidents for life.


As soon as we diminish the number of Republican in the Senate and Strengthen the numbers in the House. We can make the modification that are needed to the Articles of the Constitution and improve the Amendments and make new ones as needed, to ensure that we don't have any more "Melomaniac driven by his lust for Autocratic Plutocracy, where he makes himself into a Monarch, trying to Usurp American Democracy and its Republic form of governing.

If the USA adopted a parliamentary form of government (as found in almost all Western democracies - where the offices of the head of government and head of state are divorced) and ditched the presidential form, things would be much better


We need to tear up the documents created after the Nixon mess, of saying a President can't be indicted and brought up on charges while in office. (we should not make it where anyone can just conjure up stuff to indicate and charge... but we have smart enough minds, who can craft the language where it is less able to be easily abused.)

Precluding indicting the head of state, while in office, isn't a bad thing. But it is if he/she is also head of the government
Far easier to impeach a ceremonial head of state


We also need to get rid of the Federalist Society.... Because the Supreme Court should Respect The Preamble, Know why the Declaration of Independence was created and know that the Articles of the Constitution and its Amendments has a duty to meet and advance the principles and values laid out in The Preamble and uphold the laws within political party leanings.

Well the Declaration of Independence is not law and never has been
Too many Supreme Court rulings are split decisions though. IMO a 5:4 split ruling should not count (we should demand at least a 7:2 split) and Congress must pass a bill to clarify the Constitution.
If Congress cannot pass such a ruling, the default position should be that a law ***IS*** constitutional.


The Law of Treason, must be expanded, to deal with Treason from within and upon and against our own system. This needs to encompass, internal economic treason against our own industrial/business stability, as well against our system of American Democracy, and against our Elected Representative.

Yes, I can go with that, however a parliamentary system of government would offer far less scope for anyone or group to seize power


Then, for sure we need "State, Federal and Local Campaign Financing". We also need to no longer consider corporation as "person" !!! It is an abuse that cause and creates inequity in relation to the Democratic principles of "One Person, One Vote. Then, Corporations won't be able to put money into "buying away the voice of the people".

Agreed


We don't need to toss out the Great Framework of American Democracy and its Republic form of governing. We need the people to learn and understand, what was bastardized, why it was bastardized and how we need to make changes to fix it.


IMO we do - much of what exists can be transplanted into a new constitution, but in many places it is vague or outright silent
Why did the founders not address the issue of secession for example ?
 
Trump tried to convert us to a
(Absolute monarchy
Absolute monarchy is a form of monarchy in which the monarch holds supreme autocratic authority, principally not being restricted by written laws, legislature, or customs.)

With himself using the word "President" but he actually wanted to be and function like a Monarch!!! He had delusion that he could pass it on to Ivanka. He ignored written laws, had no regard for the legislature and certainly had no concern for customs, norm or policy. Heck, he went so far as using Twitter as if it was some form of Presidential decision promotion tool. He even said, "why can't Americans defer to the President the way N. Koreans defer all authority to Kim, or to be like Putin, who pretends to let people vote, but he functions like he is an absolute monarch.
Trump and the Republicans, through the malice and madness they made have forced people to learn more about "Civics of American Democracy and its Republic Form of Governing.


As soon as we diminish the number of Republican in the Senate and Strengthen the numbers in the House. We can make the modification that are needed to the Articles of the Constitution and improve the Amendments and make new ones as needed, to ensure that we don't have any more "Melomaniac driven by his lust for Autocratic Plutocracy, where he makes himself into a Monarch, trying to Usurp American Democracy and its Republic form of governing.

We need to tear up the documents created after the Nixon mess, of saying a President can't be indicted and brought up on charges while in office. (we should not make it where anyone can just conjure up stuff to indicate and charge... but we have smart enough minds, who can craft the language where it is less able to be easily abused.)

We also need to get rid of the Federalist Society.... Because the Supreme Court should Respect The Preamble, Know why the Declaration of Independence was created and know that the Articles of the Constitution and its Amendments has a duty to meet and advance the principles and values laid out in The Preamble and uphold the laws WITHOUT political party leanings. <> (Correction Made)

The Law of Treason, must be expanded, to deal with Treason from within and upon and against our own system. This needs to encompass, internal economic treason against our own industrial/business stability, as well against our system of American Democracy, and against our Elected Representative.

Then, for sure we need "State, Federal and Local Campaign Financing". We also need to no longer consider corporation as "person" !!! It is an abuse that cause and creates inequity in relation to the Democratic principles of "One Person, One Vote. Then, Corporations won't be able to put money into "buying away the voice of the people".

We have lots of work to do, because people are more skilled at manipulating and bastardizing the systems, which has been done over 100's of years, and we have to build safeguards against such.

We don't need to toss out the Great Framework of American Democracy and its Republic form of governing. We need the people to learn and understand, what was bastardized, why it was bastardized and how we need to make changes to fix it.

My person thought is, If we can get Federal, State and Local Campaign Financing, that we establish criteria as to who qualifies to receive those funds for campaigning. "I'd say, the person should have no less than 3-5 yrs of public service experience. I'm not a fan of all these "entertainer", "doctors" and such who have never been in a role of public service as in some function whether its community organizing, city, county, state government at some levels, or some form of policy involved public services.
We don't need any more "Entertainers, running, cities, states and filling up seat in congress and certainly not in the role of President.
Maybe we need to consider if they ever served in some branch of the military.
currently we have too many "under-educated people in the Civics of American Democracy and our governing systems". I've see too many in office who don't even understand the Preamble to the State they are living in, and many have no idea of how critical the principles and values of The Preamble is. Many seem not to care what their State Preamble to the State Constitution is and certainly ignore the U.S Preamble to the Constitution. Too many run on "Attack Something" agenda and they want to promote States Rights to Usurp Federal Government Regulations far too often.
 
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My person thought is, If we can get Federal, State and Local Campaign Financing, that we establish criteria as to who qualifies to receive those funds for campaigning. "I'd say, the person should have no less than 3-5 yrs of public service experience. I'm not a fan of all these "entertainer", "doctors" and such who have never been in a role of public service as in some function whether its community organizing, city, county, state government at some levels, or some form of policy involved public services.
We don't need any more "Entertainers, running, cities, states and filling up seat in congress and certainly not in the role of President.

Well you don't have that problem in a parliamentary system of government where the Prime Minister has first to be a member of parliament.

Trump almost won by default - he was a novelty - but no Republicans seem to worship the ground he walks on. I suspect it's because he embraced the flag and it's all a product of nationalism

Maybe we need to consider if they ever served in some branch of the military.

This is why I would hate to see the Queen of England replaced by a constitutional president. People would've probably elected some dimwit like Princess Diana - and that would have been an absolute disaster


...currently we have too many "under-educated people in the Civics of American Democracy and our governing systems". I've see too many in office who don't even understand the Preamble to the State they are living in, and many have no idea of how critical the principles and values of The Preamble is. Many seem not to care what their State Preamble to the State Constitution is and certainly ignore the U.S Preamble to the Constitution. Too many run on "Attack Something" agenda and they want to promote States Rights to Usurp Federal Government Regulations far too often.


That sums up the Republicans for sure, their whole political mantra is attack the Democrats.
 
Here is an example of some vile stuff Trump would have tried:

quote
MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday signed a law allowing him to potentially hold onto power until 2036, a move that formalizes constitutional changes endorsed in a vote last year.

The July 1 constitutional vote included a provision that reset Putin's previous term limits, allowing him to run for president two more times. The change was rubber-stamped by the Kremlin-controlled legislature and the relevant law signed by Putin was posted Monday on an official portal of legal information.

The 68-year-old Russian president, who has been in power for more than two decades — longer than any other Kremlin leader since Soviet dictator Josef Stalin — said he would decide later whether to run again in 2024 when his current six-year term ends.
end quote

This is another example of why we need to fix out Constitution, to ensure no one can try to pull this type of take over!!!!
 
Of course. A president is elected in a separate vote. When did I suggest otherwise.

The vote can be on the same day as the election of the legislature, but a president is elected separately and completely independent of the vote for the legislature -ie: the legislature do not select the Head of State

Thank you for the explanation. But, I think we ALL know that fact.

So, what is your point ... ?
 
If Canada replaced the Queen as HoS with an elected president, it would instantly become: a Representative Democracy, with a Parliamentary style of government in a Constitutional Republic

Queen Elizabeth or no Queen Elizabeth changes absolutely nothing in the political makeup of Canada.

I doubt seriously that she ever took notice. But, when Hitler was stoopid-enough to bomb England, he brought Canada into the war* ...

*That fact did not change largely the outcome of the war. But that the US was fighting alongside Canada made it easier to justify the war to American minds.
 
Here is an example of some vile stuff Trump would have tried:

quote
MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday signed a law allowing him to potentially hold onto power until 2036, a move that formalizes constitutional changes endorsed in a vote last year.

The July 1 constitutional vote included a provision that reset Putin's previous term limits, allowing him to run for president two more times. The change was rubber-stamped by the Kremlin-controlled legislature and the relevant law signed by Putin was posted Monday on an official portal of legal information.

The 68-year-old Russian president, who has been in power for more than two decades — longer than any other Kremlin leader since Soviet dictator Josef Stalin — said he would decide later whether to run again in 2024 when his current six-year term ends.
end quote

This is another example of why we need to fix out Constitution, to ensure no one can try to pull this type of take over!!!!

Trump twice tried to hang on to power indefinitely, in 2020

First he floated the idea of scrapping the 22nd Amendment

Then he floated the idea of suspending the election on the grounds that COVID made it too dangerous to hold - with presumably him left in power and until he, decided it was safe to hold another election.
 
Queen Elizabeth or no Queen Elizabeth changes absolutely nothing in the political makeup of Canada.

I doubt seriously that she ever took notice. But, when Hitler was stoopid-enough to bomb England, he brought Canada into the war* ...

*That fact did not change largely the outcome of the war. But that the US was fighting alongside Canada made it easier to justify the war to American minds.

Yes it does. If Canada replaced the Queen with an elected president, it was instantly become a republic.
 
THE SOURCE OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW

If Congress cannot pass such a ruling, the default position should be that a law ***IS*** constitutional.

If Congress passes the law, it is constitutional-law. And only then!

Well worth reading regarding the matter, from WikiP: Constitution of the United States

Excerpt:
According to the United States Senate: "The Constitution's first three words—We the People—affirm that the government of the United States exists to serve its citizens. For over two centuries the Constitution has remained in force because its framers wisely separated and balanced governmental powers to safeguard the interests of majority rule and minority rights, of liberty and equality, and of the federal and state governments." The first permanent constitution, it is interpreted, supplemented, and implemented by a large body of federal constitutional law, and has influenced the constitutions of other nations.

Since the Constitution came into force in 1789, it has been amended 27 times, including one amendment that repealed a previous one, in order to meet the needs of a nation that has profoundly changed since the 18th century. In general, the first ten amendments, known collectively as the Bill of Rights, offer specific protections of individual liberty and justice and place restrictions on the powers of government. The majority of the 17 later amendments expand individual civil rights protections. Others address issues related to federal authority or modify government processes and procedures.
 
Trump twice tried to hang on to power indefinitely, in 2020

First he floated the idea of scrapping the 22nd Amendment

Then he floated the idea of suspending the election on the grounds that COVID made it too dangerous to hold - with presumably him left in power and until he, decided it was safe to hold another election.
Trump should have been kicked out of office and arrested!!!!

Everyone in the World of Nation's knows that Trump's Team colluded with the Russian during 2015-2016 Campaign... the only people who pretend not to know is, the cult following that lusted over and worshipped him. He tried it again the minute he sat in the seat of the Presidency, and got busted with his Ukraine Mobster Moves... The he started lying 2 yrs ahead of the election about voter Fraud... But people seek to forget, soon as he was elected, he tried to get "States Voter Rolls" and even threated them with legal action, but States did not give it to him. (He was not going to do anything other than send it to Russia (Putin), to set up a scam.
The Ivanka, thought they would get in office again, and she pursued and got the patent from China to make voting machines (We all know why!!!), these criminals though they could turn American into an Autocracy run by Plutocrats, and Trump could install himself like a Monarch, but actually he thought he could be a dominator like Hitler, Putin, Kim, Duarte and China's Leader and give himself a lifetime dominance to stay in power. If he, his family, those that were in his inner circles all go to Jail, it would be great and charge all of his other capo's with sedition, and subversion... and ban all of them from every coming close to political on any level in America.
 
Trump should have been kicked out of office and arrested

Well he was kicked out of office by the election result and he may well face arrest and indictment over the riot
He was impeached for inciting it but Republican senators were too scared by Trump's power and influence to dump him

Everyone in the World of Nation's knows that Trump's Team colluded with the Russian during 2015-2016 Campaign... the only people who pretend not to know is, the cult following that lusted over and worshipped him. He tried it again the minute he sat in the seat of the Presidency, and got busted with his Ukraine Mobster Moves... The he started lying 2 yrs ahead of the election about voter Fraud... But people seek to forget, soon as he was elected, he tried to get "States Voter Rolls" and even threated them with legal action, but States did not give it to him. (He was not going to do anything other than send it to Russia (Putin), to set up a scam.

Trump has money tied up in Russia and is clearly indebted to Putin - even as Russia executed a cyber attack on the USA last year, and Trump's own Secretary of State decried it as an act of war by Russia, Trump still defended Russia and tried to deflect blame onto China


The Ivanka, thought they would get in office again, and she pursued and got the patent from China to make voting machines (We all know why!!!), these criminals though they could turn American into an Autocracy run by Plutocrats, and Trump could install himself like a Monarch, but actually he thought he could be a dominator like Hitler, Putin, Kim, Duarte and China's Leader and give himself a lifetime dominance to stay in power. If he, his family, those that were in his inner circles all go to Jail, it would be great and charge all of his other capo's with sedition, and subversion... and ban all of them from every coming close to political on any level in America.

I think Trump enjoyed the power trip of being president but he was like a man holding a tiger by the tail. I don't think he wanted the job, but he daren't give it up

Since losing, he is now the subject of THIRTY law suits and two pending criminal investigations.
 
American Democracy is doing just fine.
 
As usual splitting-hairs.

And, as usual, you have repeatedly failed to provide any concrete plan that would have significantly changed those numbers.

So, more directly, state in no uncertain exactly what you think Trump should have done that would have prevent those deaths?
 
Trump should have rallied Americans to addressing the pandemic instead of trying to keep the stock market happy.

Explain in no uncertain terms exactly what he should have done.

I did it. I laid out in detail what should have been done and it only took me 2 minutes to type it up.
 
So, more directly, state in no uncertain exactly what you think Trump should have done that would have prevent those deaths?

Useless prattle. The evidence is abundant of Donald Dork's refusal from the very beginning when there were no defenses available because they were all in development against an unknown enemy.

Brainless could have started wearing a mask to diminish the contagion. But, no, he had to rip-off the mask in public to show his disdain. One year later, on the day he left the White House, he had a doctor give him and his wife an anti-Covid shot.

The man is useless, useless, useless and a bane to society as a whole! He deserves what's coming to him from the tax-investigation that has just begun ... !
 
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Useless prattle. The evidence is abundant of Donald Dork's refusal from the very beginning when there were no defenses available because they were all in development against an unknown enemy.

Brainless could have started wearing a mask to diminish the contagion. But, no, he had to rip-off the mask in public to show his disdain. One year later, on the day he left the White House, he had a doctor give him and his wife an anti-Covid shot.

The man is useless, useless, useless and a bane to society as a whole! He deserves what's coming to him from the tax-investigation that has just begun ... !

The worst, the absolute worst ever president.

Never takes responsibility
Never admits fault
Tries to take all the credit...he'd claim it was him who rolled the stone away from Jesus' tomb if he thought he could get away with it.
 
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