How to make America great again

[SocTheory]

The Republican Party makes its own politics to the detriment of the United States and its citizens. But, she does this because her representatives want to stay in power in the Senate and Congress, because they live well there at the expense of taxpayers. And it is also a consequence of their love to political power and prestige. In view of which, the Republican Party (and the US policy) is a hostageabout the ignorant voters that they represents. Whereas the Republican Party itself is forced to lie. In essence, this cynical party, like all the US politicians, they doesn’t care what happens to America. They do not care. At the same time, the Democratic Party also depends on its constituents, and just as often betrays the US interests and seeks profit and well-being.

The only way out of this situation is the transition to a competent electorate. For this, it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications. The composition of the qualification should be considered. But this qualification should be formed on the basis of tests. This is the only way to restore democracy to the United States and make America a great country again.

 

[HumblePi]

The Republican Party makes its own politics to the detriment of the United States and its citizens. But, she does this because her representatives want to stay in power in the Senate and Congress, because they live well there at the expense of taxpayers. And it is also a consequence of their love to political power and prestige. In view of which, the Republican Party (and the US policy) is a hostageabout the ignorant voters that they represents. Whereas the Republican Party itself is forced to lie. In essence, this cynical party, like all the US politicians, they doesn’t care what happens to America. They do not care. At the same time, the Democratic Party also depends on its constituents, and just as often betrays the US interests and seeks profit and well-being.

The only way out of this situation is the transition to a competent electorate. For this, it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications. The composition of the qualification should be considered. But this qualification should be formed on the basis of tests. This is the only way to restore democracy to the United States and make America a great country again.

I don't know what you mean by, "it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications."

 

[Luther]

The Republican Party makes its own politics to the detriment of the United States and its citizens. But, she does this because her representatives want to stay in power in the Senate and Congress, because they live well there at the expense of taxpayers. And it is also a consequence of their love to political power and prestige. In view of which, the Republican Party (and the US policy) is a hostageabout the ignorant voters that they represents. Whereas the Republican Party itself is forced to lie. In essence, this cynical party, like all the US politicians, they doesn’t care what happens to America. They do not care. At the same time, the Democratic Party also depends on its constituents, and just as often betrays the US interests and seeks profit and well-being.

The only way out of this situation is the transition to a competent electorate. For this, it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications. The composition of the qualification should be considered. But this qualification should be formed on the basis of tests. This is the only way to restore democracy to the United States and make America a great country again.

The only way out of this situation is the transition to a competent electorate.

On that we agree

The other stuff is just "Fluff"


Democrats.... Republicans

Republicans.... Democrats

Nowhere fast!

 

[SocTheory]

I don't know what you mean by, "it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications."

swing_voter - Today 07:59 AM

When you say "abolish universal suffrage", you mean abolish "one man one vote?"
What happened to, "all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with inalienable rights?"
I guess what you're aiming for is more like ancient Athens were only male, land holders could vote.
Are you saying we should only allow college graduates?

Real democracy is the action of public authorities in the interests of man and society (in the interests of civil society), and not election procedures at all. Tell me, why children under 18 do not vote? They are also human beings. Obviously because they are not competent enough. Similarly, in order to increase the competence of voters, it is necessary grant voting rights for those who have the necessary competence. This will not lead to a violation entities of democracy , as these people are part of society, the same as other citizens. But, they are more competent. If there are better forms of government than universal suffrage, they must be implemented to stop the mess that reigns in modern politics because of the incompetence of voters and populism of politicians and parties. The deprivation of the electoral rights of citizens who did not pass the electoral qualification will not eliminate but will strengthen democracy. That is, it will make the state and public authorities act even better in the interests of civil society. That is, in the interests of every citizen. Therefore, there is nothing to be afraid of. Nobody takes away rights from citizens, but on the contrary, we strive to avoid violation of the interests of civil society of US, which is produced by the so-called "foolish adults" who comes to vote, are not understanding the features of politicians, party programs, and not well versed in public administration.

 

[SocTheory]

I don't know what you mean by, "it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications."

Suppose we create an electronic electoral system, the voting in which, although secret, but will be connected with a specific voter. Suppose that we introduce the following qualification in this system: everyone who voted for Trump next time is deprived of the right to vote. Similarly, politicians who are congressmen and senators, if they did not support the impeachment of Trump, lose their seats in parliament forever. What do you think, after such qualification of voters and politicians, will the overall competence of voters and politicians increase or decrease?

This is just an example of a simple test. But, real tests can be complicated. It is important to set a criterion, with what qualities we want to select voters, so that they solve all issues for us more competently than US citizens acting without qualifications.

 

[SocTheory]

On that we agree. The other stuff is just "Fluff" Democrats.... Republicans, Republicans.... Democrats, Nowhere fast!

The main thing is to form an idea. Then this idea can be framed in detail and turned into a program of action, enter it into the context of the discussions of society. Then the idea itself will stand for itself. You don’t know if any of the politicians or parties in the USA are already proposing something similar?

 

[SocTheory]

One way to do what you suggest would not necessarily be a test per say but the willingness to commit and be an integral part of the country by making citizenship optional. There would be two classes, residents and citizens. Residents simply reside in the country at large and have no say in the affairs of state whatsoever. Citizens would gain the status by pledging allegiance to the country and serving the country in military service actively initially and reserve for the duration of their citizenship afterwards, while providing other services for the country on occasion. The idea that there has to be skin in the game for people to truly respect and embrace an idea. This is a test of commitment. Deeds do the talking and demonstrate the commitment.

If citizenship will be not mandatory, this will not improve the quality of voters, and therefore will not improve the quality of power. Since many "patriots" being incompetent people will want to be citizens. Therefore, such an approach will only worsen power and will not solve the problems faced by the United States and the developed countries of Europe. This problem is a crisis of modern democracy and its foundations, based on universal suffrage.

 

[SocTheory]

Who determines "competence"? And should the truly "competent" be allowed to form one party with a single doctrine for the good of the nation and the lesser people?

Only honest people who want to achieve a positive goal in society and have the appropriate knowledge and abilities are able to draw up appropriate tests. But, the simplest test may be the following - you need to exclude all voters who voted for Trump. For the one who votes for a dishonest and obviously stupid person is not worthy to elect the US president, and is not worthy to be a voter at all. Speaking in more detail, the tests should reveal political intelligence, the availability of education in the field of understanding the economy, law, personality traits, as well as the main question - a person should understand people and elect honest and competent politicians. Still, it is necessary to introduce a qualification test for US presidential candidates. And also for senators and congressmen. Since Republican congressmen and senators supported Trump, knowing that he could harm the United States, they are unworthy to occupy seats in the Senate and Congress.

Including, all current US politicians and congressmen, members of the government, should take the oath to always tell the truth. All current politicians and presidential candidates must be tested with a lie detector. The lies of any of the officials (including the president) should lead to his resignation, if proved in court. In addition, control authorities should be formed from persons elected on the basis of a special qualification. They must have the right to lustration (resign) of officials, and the veto over laws that do not comply with the US Constitution and the basic interests of US citizens.

The right of impeachment should not be with the Senate and Congress, but with the control bodies, elected on the basis of special qualifications. Since the Senate and Congress depend on voters, while the control bodies are not dependent on voters, but depend only on qualifications. When US political forces understand this and want to maintain power, they themselves will vote for the appropriate qualification, since it will clear the US political system of populism and lies. And also from slavish following the opinion of incompetent voters.

All this should be new amendments to the US Constitution.

 

[PirateMk1]

If citizenship will be not mandatory, this will not improve the quality of voters, and therefore will not improve the quality of power. Since many "patriots" being incompetent people will want to be citizens. Therefore, such an approach will only worsen power and will not solve the problems faced by the United States and the developed countries of Europe. This problem is a crisis of modern democracy and its foundations, based on universal suffrage.

You missed the part were I said citizenships was optional and only citizens get a vote and to be in in office or official capacity and to be able to work for the government. The price was military service and other occasional service to the country. Being in office or working for the government wouldn't count. Having actual skin in the game makes people much more cognizant of the stakes at hand, therefor more likely to be more knowledgeable and careful.

 

[PirateMk1]

Only honest people who want to achieve a positive goal in society and have the appropriate knowledge and abilities are able to draw up appropriate tests. But, the simplest test may be the following - you need to exclude all voters who voted for Trump. For the one who votes for a dishonest and obviously stupid person is not worthy to elect the US president, and is not worthy to be a voter at all. Speaking in more detail, the tests should reveal political intelligence, the availability of education in the field of understanding the economy, law, personality traits, as well as the main question - a person should understand people and elect honest and competent politicians. Still, it is necessary to introduce a qualification test for US presidential candidates. And also for senators and congressmen. Since Republican congressmen and senators supported Trump, knowing that he could harm the United States, they are unworthy to occupy seats in the Senate and Congress.

Including, all current US politicians and congressmen, members of the government, should take the oath to always tell the truth. All current politicians and presidential candidates must be tested with a lie detector. The lies of any of the officials (including the president) should lead to his resignation, if proved in court. In addition, control authorities should be formed from persons elected on the basis of a special qualification. They must have the right to lustration (resign) of officials, and the veto over laws that do not comply with the US Constitution and the basic interests of US citizens.

The right of impeachment should not be with the Senate and Congress, but with the control bodies, elected on the basis of special qualifications. Since the Senate and Congress depend on voters, while the control bodies are not dependent on voters, but depend only on qualifications. When US political forces understand this and want to maintain power, they themselves will vote for the appropriate qualification, since it will clear the US political system of populism and lies. And also from slavish following the opinion of incompetent voters.

All this should be new amendments to the US Constitution.

A plutocracy already runs this country I dont wish to trade one for another. I voted for Trump. If you think I am incompetent, thats your problem. I did my duty for king and country and I get a say. Hillary Clinton was not the lesser of two evils IMO.

 

[enderpotato00]

Lets face it, the Republican and Democratic parties aren't for the people anymore

 

[Liberty One]

The Republican Party makes its own politics to the detriment of the United States and its citizens. But, she does this because her representatives want to stay in power in the Senate and Congress, because they live well there at the expense of taxpayers. And it is also a consequence of their love to political power and prestige. In view of which, the Republican Party (and the US policy) is a hostageabout the ignorant voters that they represents. Whereas the Republican Party itself is forced to lie. In essence, this cynical party, like all the US politicians, they doesn’t care what happens to America. They do not care. At the same time, the Democratic Party also depends on its constituents, and just as often betrays the US interests and seeks profit and well-being.

The only way out of this situation is the transition to a competent electorate. For this, it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications. The composition of the qualification should be considered. But this qualification should be formed on the basis of tests. This is the only way to restore democracy to the United States and make America a great country again.

The problem with your proposal is the underlying assumption that all we need to do is elect the "right" people to government. You can change the composition of the electorate all you want, it doesn't matter. No one should be allowed to have that much power over the rest of society. There is no special group of angels that we can elect to rule us.

 

[zyzygy]

When was America great? Dates, please.

 

[Slartibartfast]

The Republican Party makes its own politics to the detriment of the United States and its citizens. But, she does this because her representatives want to stay in power in the Senate and Congress, because they live well there at the expense of taxpayers. And it is also a consequence of their love to political power and prestige. In view of which, the Republican Party (and the US policy) is a hostageabout the ignorant voters that they represents. Whereas the Republican Party itself is forced to lie. In essence, this cynical party, like all the US politicians, they doesn’t care what happens to America. They do not care. At the same time, the Democratic Party also depends on its constituents, and just as often betrays the US interests and seeks profit and well-being.

The only way out of this situation is the transition to a competent electorate. For this, it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications. The composition of the qualification should be considered. But this qualification should be formed on the basis of tests. This is the only way to restore democracy to the United States and make America a great country again.

That runs afoul of basic human rights.

I think we should put any congress person's assets in escrow and they only get it back after the term. Their profit or loss of those assets should be assigned to the term average of their voter approval rates during their term. Something like 50% approval gets them a net 25% profit, 40% approval is 10-15% profit, and so forth. Then give them a 200k/yr severence and ban them from working for any for profit outfit or lobbying group for up to 5 years.

Politicians should listen to their constituents more, not less.

Your proposal will only entrench the current problem since any test can be cheated and those with means will find that way to cheat more easily and also fails to address the issue of personal corruption for said politicians.

 

[SocTheory]

That runs afoul of basic human rights. I think we should put any congress person's assets in escrow and they only get it back after the term. Their profit or loss of those assets should be assigned to the term average of their voter approval rates during their term. Something like 50% approval gets them a net 25% profit, 40% approval is 10-15% profit, and so forth. Then give them a 200k/yr severence and ban them from working for any for profit outfit or lobbying group for up to 5 years. Politicians should listen to their constituents more, not less. Your proposal will only entrench the current problem since any test can be cheated and those with means will find that way to cheat more easily and also fails to address the issue of personal corruption for said politicians.

Do you think that the incompetent governance of our country belongs to basic human rights? Why, then, would you not consider that all people do not have a license can be doctors? While people who do not have a driver’s license and minor children 3-4 years old have the same rights to drive a car as professional drivers. What are rights in general, and where do they come from. Why on earth should incompetent people run the state and elect politicians to power?

The essence of my proposal boils down to the fact that the state and the authorities should be controlled, firstly, by persons who are not personally interested, who do not have any benefits from their activities. Secondly, it should be the competent persons.

Based on these criteria of state control, the majority of voters are not suitable on the basis of incompetence. Whereas - all parties, and all politicians are not suitable because of their personal material interest. Therefore, neither US voters, nor the Democratic and Republican partie can control the state and power.

Moreover, the modern United States is governed by political fools and political prostitutes. The first constitute more than 60-70% of US voters. The second make up almost the entire political establishment, and ruls the US. The second category includes parliamentary parties, as well as the members of the House of Representatives and the Senate.

From here comes chaos in US politics

Neither the ruling parties, nor the voters can eliminate this chaos. Since this is a systemic chaos generated by the very shortcomings of the control system.

Therefore, the question is logical. How to eliminate this chaos in the management of the US?

 

[SocTheory]

In my opinion, political tests can select personally uninterested, but competent people who are well versed in US politics. These individuals must control the state. In particular, they should have the right to vote, as well as the right to impeach the president and resign members of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Such persons, in my opinion, should be no more than 10% of the number of US citizens. That is, at least 20-30 million.

Whereas members of the Senate and members of the House of Representatives should not have the right to impeach. At the same time, the general requirements for the personal qualities of presidential candidates should also be formed. For example, IQ > 140, an understanding of the fundamentals of economics, foundations of jurisprudence and knowledge of the usa constitution, an understanding of world and domestic politics, and the fundamentals of public administration. As well as honesty and the need to provide a tax return.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Only honest people who want to achieve a positive goal in society and have the appropriate knowledge and abilities are able to draw up appropriate tests. But, the simplest test may be the following - you need to exclude all voters who voted for Trump. For the one who votes for a dishonest and obviously stupid person is not worthy to elect the US president, and is not worthy to be a voter at all. Speaking in more detail, the tests should reveal political intelligence, the availability of education in the field of understanding the economy, law, personality traits, as well as the main question - a person should understand people and elect honest and competent politicians. Still, it is necessary to introduce a qualification test for US presidential candidates. And also for senators and congressmen. Since Republican congressmen and senators supported Trump, knowing that he could harm the United States, they are unworthy to occupy seats in the Senate and Congress.

Including, all current US politicians and congressmen, members of the government, should take the oath to always tell the truth. All current politicians and presidential candidates must be tested with a lie detector. The lies of any of the officials (including the president) should lead to his resignation, if proved in court. In addition, control authorities should be formed from persons elected on the basis of a special qualification. They must have the right to lustration (resign) of officials, and the veto over laws that do not comply with the US Constitution and the basic interests of US citizens.

The right of impeachment should not be with the Senate and Congress, but with the control bodies, elected on the basis of special qualifications. Since the Senate and Congress depend on voters, while the control bodies are not dependent on voters, but depend only on qualifications. When US political forces understand this and want to maintain power, they themselves will vote for the appropriate qualification, since it will clear the US political system of populism and lies. And also from slavish following the opinion of incompetent voters.

All this should be new amendments to the US Constitution.

Hi SocTheory,

As far as I am concerned you are on to something here mate! My motivations may differ here and there, but conceptionally we are talking the same thing. Here some of the thoughts i have had on this in the past;
- The system is old. Yes, amendments have been made to the constitution, but the system is still old.
- Our society is changing at an ever increasing rate. Yes, it has always changed, but the changes are bigger and follow each other faster and faster. Yet the government does everything the way it always did at the same pace as 200 years ago. That is not acceptable anymore in our society.
- People who want to run for election should be scrutinized before the are allowed to run. This should include:
* IQ Test.
* Psychological tests.
* Secret Service evaluation.
* Certificate of good behavior. You are in a position where you are an example. So bad examples are simply not allowed.
- Make the elections fair for all. No more district altering to favor one party over an other party.
- All Citizens can vote.
- Every vote is one vote. Vote weight is independent from state.

Now this may be a nice start, but it is only the beginning though.

There need to be further rules and regulations in place for people running for election and people voted in office during election. Officials or people running for such a position can only make statements that have been verified by a commission on both feasibility and truthfulness. When a newly suggested policy is introduced the costs, feasibility, benefits and the negative side effects of the policy all need to be announced as well. Making false statements must have consequences. But the current situation where any official can say what suits his career best has to stop. The spreading of incorrect information needs to stop. People need to be able to trust the words that come to them from the government. And right now this is not the case.

Now this is of course not gonna happen anytime soon. First it all needs to boil over to the extend where a lot of people die and then maybe, just maybe, some (only some) of these idea may get implemented. I like your idea, but I just don't see it happen anytime soon. However, the likes of you and me talking about this can only help I guess so hence my response.

Now yes, the above may have been triggered in part because of the Trumpet, but it has nothing to do with the republican party or the democratic party in particular. After all the Trumpet has chosen the republican party because it suited him best. It could have been the democratic party for all he cared. But he is definitely not a republican. Real republicans would not try to ruin the country. They would try to preserve it.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

In addition to the above, I think people should have a discussion to see the feasibility of not voting for people but voting for policy instead. Once you have good people in place, you actually want to keep them there and not replace them after every election. And with that the division between the republicans and democrats has almost instantly evaporated, so there will be a lot of opposition to this from all sides because all people will feel threatened by this. Well all politicians I guess.

Joey

 

[AmNat]

That runs afoul of basic human rights.

Rights are personal—born with persons—belong to the person, and affect the person; but trusts are relative—and born with society—belong to society—and are for the good and under control of society. How is any man born with a right to take my rights, or to select another to take my rights?

Suffrage, then, is not a right—it is not a privilege—it is a trust, and a most solemn and sacred trust. It is the trust of preserving society, of securing rights, of protecting persons.

Would you select an ignorant, or vicious, or untrustworthy man as your trustee, or the trustee for your wife or your child in the smallest concerns of life? How, then, would you make a trustee of an ignorant or vicious man to discharge these great duties, on the wise and faithful discharge of which all rights, and all protection, and all things depend?

Senator Benjamin H. Hill of Georgia: His Life, Speeches and Writings - Google Books

Needless to say, they don't make senators like they used to.

 

[Nickyjo]

If citizenship will be not mandatory, this will not improve the quality of voters, and therefore will not improve the quality of power. Since many "patriots" being incompetent people will want to be citizens. Therefore, such an approach will only worsen power and will not solve the problems faced by the United States and the developed countries of Europe. This problem is a crisis of modern democracy and its foundations, based on universal suffrage.

Why not just sterilize the incompetents so they don’t reproduce? Over time, only the competent people will be left around to vote.

 

[Nickyjo]

I don't know what you mean by, "it is necessary to abolish universal suffrage and create suffrage based on qualifications."

In a word, fascism.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Senator Benjamin H. Hill of Georgia: His Life, Speeches and Writings - Google Books

Needless to say, they don't make senators like they used to.

good for him

 

[it's just me]

Suppose we create an electronic electoral system, the voting in which, although secret, but will be connected with a specific voter. Suppose that we introduce the following qualification in this system: everyone who voted for Trump next time is deprived of the right to vote. Similarly, politicians who are congressmen and senators, if they did not support the impeachment of Trump, lose their seats in parliament forever. What do you think, after such qualification of voters and politicians, will the overall competence of voters and politicians increase or decrease?

This is just an example of a simple test. But, real tests can be complicated. It is important to set a criterion, with what qualities we want to select voters, so that they solve all issues for us more competently than US citizens acting without qualifications.

If this is what you think then you should not be allowed to vote.