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How to erase the national debt[W:1040]

What's a "very big" deficit to you? What's "very big" deficits to MMI, or Jeager

Yes, this is an important point. The current deficit is 2.5% of GDP. CBO forecasts that to increase to three, four, and then five percent of GDP over the next ten years. That's about as big as I think it should get under "normal" circumstances. As a result, in my mind, we don't have a lot of room to get things done, unless of course we begin to behave more intelligently and maybe get lucky so that the projections turn out to be a bit more gloomy than the eventual reality.

We wouldn't be tied down like this if we hadn't effed up with another round of SSE. Huge mistake, as Frumpy might say, although he probably supported it at the time.

Now I figure some of the MMT supporters here in town would tell me not to worry about stepping on the gas a bit more, that the way to avoid that trillion dollar deficit in 2026 is to make the investments I support, deficit spending another one percent of GDP along the way if we need to. They may be right. But let's remember that the political environment is going to be determinative. We should and hopefully will spend more on smart investments and cover some of that expense by adjusting for some of the giveaways to wealthy households over the recent GOP administrations. Things probably won't change much, whether we like it or not.
 
As I said, he asked him to throw you a bone.



I get it. You can't fathom how there could be both limits and no limits at the same time. It's ok.

But just to clarify for you: the limits are of different types. There is no physical, legal or procedural limit to the amount of currency the United States can create. But there are less-exact, more debatable, systemic limits to the amount of currency that *should* be created.



Dilemmas really are a bitch.



You can't resist putting words said by nobody into quotes. I never said "very big deficits", I gave a nod of general agreement to a previous post. And even if I did say "very big" deficits, so what? What's a "very big" deficit to you? What's "very big" deficits to MMI, or Jeager? Piling on the superlatives is good for grabbing headlines and waving your arms in the air like your hair is on fire and getting attention, but it rarely furthers any productive conversation.


I'm beginning to understand now. There are both limits and no limits. That makes sense.

We can create as much deficits, debt, and money as we want because there are no limits but that doesn't mean that we should, because there are limits. That makes sense too.

You are concerned about wasteful spending but wasteful spending is actually good for the economy so, what happened to the concern?

"I never said "very big deficits" "and even if I did say "very big" deficits, so what"?
 
Laugh yer ass off to a Marine and see what happens.



Is that where things went wrong for you?

What would a liberal draft dodging coward know about a Marine ? :lamo Where have you served ? :lamo
 
Don't ever put anything in quotes that is not an actual quote. There is no more dishonest, misleading way to debate than that. The crap that you attribute to us is just that - crap.

I have explained my position at length, many times over. I can't help it if you don't have the mental horsepower to pull that wagon. It's your turn to do some homework. Learn some economics and come back with a real argument, one where you don't have to mischaracterize what your opponents are saying.

Maybe you can start off slow, and get your feet wet with something less complicated.



While at the same time you continue to ignore addressing the point of whether or not you favor lots of very big deficits. Dodging the question is the only thing you have because you are totally chicken to just come out and say that with the current economic environment you do indeed advocate lots of very big deficits. What's so hard about defending what you believe in and admitting it? You either believe in what you say or you don't. Why do you have to evade answering the question directly, without any gobbledygook or trying to change the subject to my perceived lack of knowledge?
 
I'm beginning to understand now. There are both limits and no limits. That makes sense.

We can create as much deficits, debt, and money as we want because there are no limits but that doesn't mean that we should, because there are limits. That makes sense too.

You are concerned about wasteful spending but wasteful spending is actually good for the economy so, what happened to the concern?

"I never said "very big deficits" "and even if I did say "very big" deficits, so what"?

Your failed attempt at derisive sarcasm is duly noted.
 
What would a liberal draft dodging coward know about a Marine?

More than you, I figure. I grew up on a naval air station. Until I went to high school, everyone I knew was Navy, and my early career goal was to fly high-performance jet aircraft. I was a finalist in applying for admission to Annapolis.

As far as draft dodging goes, they stopped picking numbers two years before I turned eighteen. If I had been selected, my plan was to call the local news stations and tell them when I would be on the State House steps to burn my draft card. I hated, and I mean hated, the conflict overseas 1965-74. I was willing to accept a five-year federal prison sentence. So you can put yer draft dodger crap back where it came from, ya know, save it for Dickhead Chaingang and his fellow "other priorities" pigs.

I'm too dumb and too stubborn to be a coward. I've made that clear to filth on more than one occasion.

>>:lamo Where have you served? :lamo

First, I'll note that if you laughed yer ass off, there'd be nothing left of you. Secondly, tell us about yerself, Audie Murphy. And maybe you could thrown in something about Secretary Kerry being a liar and a coward and a traitor, the qualities that convinced the Navy to inappropriately award him Silver and Bronze Stars.

Finally, why are you posting on this thread? Can you spell economics? Are yer contributions to life elsewhere this laughably worthless?
 
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More than you, I figure. I grew up on a naval air station. Until I went to high school, everyone I knew was Navy, and my early career goal was to fly high-performance jet aircraft. I was a finalist in applying for admission to Annapolis.

As far as draft dodging goes, they stopped picking numbers two years before I turned eighteen. If I had been selected, my plan was to call the local news stations and tell them when I would be on the State House steps to burn my draft card. I hated, and I mean hated, the conflict overseas 1965-74. I was willing to accept a five-year federal prison sentence. So you can put yer draft dodger crap back where it came from, ya know, save it for Dickhead Chaingang and his fellow "other priorities" pigs.

I'm too dumb and too stubborn to be a coward. I've made that clear to filth on more than one occasion.

>>:lamo Where have you served? :lamo

First, I'll note that if you laughed yer ass off, there'd be nothing left of you. Secondly, tell us about yerself, Audie Murphy. And maybe you could thrown in something about Secretary Kerry being a liar and a coward and a traitor, the qualities that convinced the Navy to inappropriately award him Silver and Bronze Stars.

Finally, why are you posting on this thread? Can you spell economics? Are yer contributions to life elsewhere this laughably worthless?

Like I said coward , draft dodger . Cowards always have an excuse why they refuse to defend their Country but love to bring up BS about how they disagree with this and that , bottom line YOU didn't !!! I served in Vietnam 13 months during Tet Offensive in the Marine Corp and only 30% of my guys made it back . So don't tell me what a marine would do to me . Grow a set first .
 
Cowards always have an excuse why they refuse to defend their Country

What's yer excuse for being such a shameful embarrassment to the USA?

>>BS about how they disagree with this and that

"This and that," eh? How did you advance our national interest?

>>bottom line YOU didn't

Yeah, I didn't fight in support of an illegitimate government. I was prepared to do the right thing if I'd been drafted.

>>I served in Vietnam 13 months during Tet Offensive in the Marine Corp

Where? Wha'd ya do, serve drinks in a whorehouse in Saigon?

>>don't tell me what a marine would do to me.

I'm just glad to hear yer no longer a federal employee.

>>Grow a set first.

So yer concerned about other peoples' genitalia. Not surprising.
 
What would a liberal draft dodging coward know about a Marine ? :lamo Where have you served ? :lamo

Your accusing mmi of being "a liberal draft dodging coward" is based on what? The fact that he's a liberal automatically makes him a draft dodger? You mean like "4F" Trump, "4F" Limbaugh, and "I was too busy" Cheney? Does being a conservative automatically make you a racist like the Republican Party's champion, Donald Trump?

I'm a liberal. And a retired Navy Commander. How far up the ranks did you get, "war hero" Socrates? E-3? E-4? Wow. Bet mommy was really proud.
 
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Like I said coward , draft dodger . Cowards always have an excuse why they refuse to defend their Country but love to bring up BS about how they disagree with this and that , bottom line YOU didn't !!! I served in Vietnam 13 months during Tet Offensive in the Marine Corp and only 30% of my guys made it back . So don't tell me what a marine would do to me . Grow a set first .

Doubt it. People who have to run around bragging about their "exploits" usually are the ones with the least to brag about.

What do you think of Donald Trump, who scorned John McCain's service because he was shot down and spent years in a North VN POW camp? Trump, who was 4F when his nation called? Oh, that's right, Trump attended a military academy in High School, which he claimed was the same thing as being in the military.
 
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What's yer excuse for being such a shameful embarrassment to the USA?

>>BS about how they disagree with this and that

"This and that," eh? How did you advance our national interest?

>>bottom line YOU didn't

Yeah, I didn't fight in support of an illegitimate government. I was prepared to do the right thing if I'd been drafted.

>>I served in Vietnam 13 months during Tet Offensive in the Marine Corp

Where? Wha'd ya do, serve drinks in a whorehouse in Saigon?

>>don't tell me what a marine would do to me.

I'm just glad to hear yer no longer a federal employee.

>>Grow a set first.

So yer concerned about other peoples' genitalia. Not surprising.

A lot of cowardly BS ! :lamo
 
Your accusing mmi of being "a liberal draft dodging coward" is based on what? The fact that he's a liberal automatically makes him a draft dodger? You mean like "4F" Trump, "4F" Limbaugh, and "I was too busy" Cheney? Does being a conservative automatically make you a racist like the Republican Party's champion, Donald Trump?

I'm a liberal. And a retired Navy Commander. How far up the ranks did you get, "war hero" Socrates? E-3? E-4? Wow. Bet mommy was really proud.

A lot of BS . Play station doesn't count !
 
Doubt it. People who have to run around bragging about their "exploits" usually are the ones with the least to brag about.



Where did you read that , lib 101 .
 
Your accusing mmi of being "a liberal draft dodging coward" is based on what?

I've decided Succotash is one of those bots that's programmed to take a block of text and create a response. That would explain the clumsy inability to formulate any sort of reasoned message. A modern version of that "'Magic 8 Ball" from the 1950s. "You may rely on it."

>>The fact that he's a liberal automatically makes him a draft dodger?

Yeah, it reads a member's "Lean" and reacts with an automated response.

>>Bet mommy was really proud.

No parents. Just someone writing code.

Doubt it. People who have to run around bragging about their "exploits" usually are the ones with the least to brag about.

No exploits listed. Nothing there but empty cyberspace.

>>What do you think of Donald Trump … 4F when his nation called?

No thinking involved, just processing. This is the kind of gubmint we'd get with Frumpy. "Thank you. Goodbye."
 
Moderator's Warning:
Insult another poster, and you'll be thread banned and infracted. Stop talking about each other and stick to the topic and to the topic only. This is a zero tolerance warning, and posts made before it may still be subject to moderation.
 
How do we reduce waste in our own spending? We analyze how we are spending our money and cut down on spending in things that we do not need or want or are not essential to us and our families. It should be no different for the federal, state or local government. We should look at our government expenses and through our representatives reduce the spending we do not want or need. Or cannot afford!
 
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How do we reduce waste in our own spending? We analyze how we are spending our money and cut down on spending in things that we do not need or want or are not essential to us and our families. It should be no different for the federal, state or local government. We should look at our government expenses and through our representatives reduce the spending we do not want or need. Or cannot afford!

You haven't been here long enough to know what JP and the other "MMT'rs" believe in. They don't think any spending is wasteful, particularly government spending. Spending grows the economy, which adds jobs (lowering the unemployment rate), which all increases GDP. The national debt is not real debt because we have our own currency and can just print the money we want to pay that debt so not only aren't deficits bad but we should increase them even higher to continuously stimulate the economy. But, they all failed econ 101 and live in this fantasyland where you can spend all you want without consequences. As long as the economy grows, you never have to pay the piper. In their make believe world there is no such thing as the piper because the more you spend and the more debt there is, the more the economy grows.
 
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You haven't been here long enough to know what JP and the other "MMT'rs" believe in. They don't think any spending is wasteful, particularly government spending. Spending grows the economy, which adds jobs (lowering the unemployment rate), which all increases GDP. The national debt is not real debt because we have our own currency and can just print the money we want to pay that debt so not only aren't deficits bad but we should increase them even higher to continuously stimulate the economy. But, they all failed econ 101 and live in this fantasyland where you can spend all you want without consequences. As long as the economy grows, you never have to pay the piper. In their make believe world there is no such thing as the piper.

Nothing like allowing someone to form their own opinions.
 
You haven't been here long enough to know what JP and the other "MMT'rs" believe in. They don't think any spending is wasteful, particularly government spending. Spending grows the economy, which adds jobs (lowering the unemployment rate), which all increases GDP. The national debt is not real debt because we have our own currency and can just print the money we want to pay that debt so not only aren't deficits bad but we should increase them even higher to continuously stimulate the economy. But, they all failed econ 101 and live in this fantasyland where you can spend all you want without consequences. As long as the economy grows, you never have to pay the piper. In their make believe world there is no such thing as the piper because the more you spend and the more debt there is, the more the economy grows.

You aren't even remotely qualified to interpret MMT (or anything else related to economics) for anybody else.
 
You haven't been here long enough to know what JP and the other "MMT'rs" believe in. They don't think any spending is wasteful, particularly government spending. Spending grows the economy, which adds jobs (lowering the unemployment rate), which all increases GDP. The national debt is not real debt because we have our own currency and can just print the money we want to pay that debt so not only aren't deficits bad but we should increase them even higher to continuously stimulate the economy. But, they all failed econ 101 and live in this fantasyland where you can spend all you want without consequences. As long as the economy grows, you never have to pay the piper. In their make believe world there is no such thing as the piper because the more you spend and the more debt there is, the more the economy grows.

100% of government spending on the private domestic sector goes directly into GDP by definition. That's just a fact. And if that income is spent more than once in a year, then it increases even more in its contribution.

You don't have to borrow money to print money. We do it this way, but we don't have to. Either way, we have an infinite ability to pay our own debt.

Household debt must be entirely paid for by future income, government debt does not. When the economy undergoes persistent growth, growth can render the public debt moot.

Where you completely depart is where you suggest that MMTers claim that there are no consequences. You fail to understand the distinction- we can spend a little more without facing catastrophe of any sort. We can't spend indefinitely, but we probably should spend more.
 
100% of government spending on the private domestic sector goes directly into GDP by definition. That's just a fact. And if that income is spent more than once in a year, then it increases even more in its contribution.

You don't have to borrow money to print money. We do it this way, but we don't have to. Either way, we have an infinite ability to pay our own debt.

Household debt must be entirely paid for by future income, government debt does not. When the economy undergoes persistent growth, growth can render the public debt moot.

Where you completely depart is where you suggest that MMTers claim that there are no consequences. You fail to understand the distinction- we can spend a little more without facing catastrophe of any sort. We can't spend indefinitely, but we probably should spend more.

That's the very first time I have seen you post that "we can spend a little more" and that "we can't spend indefinitely" Before that the sky was the limit and we weren't even close to spending all we can spend.
 
That's the very first time I have seen you post that "we can spend a little more" and that "we can't spend indefinitely" Before that the sky was the limit and we weren't even close to spending all we can spend.

What a load o' crap.

Finally, you admit that you believe there are no limits.

I never said there are no limits.

There are practical limits to this; too much spending could swamp our economy's ability to meet demand, and that would result in inflation.

It is not MMTers that are blathering on about spending unlimited amounts of money. That's your camp, because you don't have an argument otherwise.

First you imply that there are no limits, then when confronted you say that you never said that their aren't any limits, and now you are saying again that there really aren't any limits because as long as the economy is growing there are no limits, implying that if the economy stops growing then that is the limit, accept you say that if the economy is not growing then we need deficit spending to get it growing. It's pretty obvious that you really do believe there are no limits and that any amount of debt is acceptable and any amount of printing money is acceptable, as long as we don't get inflation.

It's not that there are no limits, or that there are no limits if the economy is growing, it's that the limit to the amount of debt that can be sustained increases as the economy increases.
 
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