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How The Second Amendment Was Reinterpreted To Protect Individual Rights....Less Than 50 Years Ago

RIP U.S. Democracy said:
As I've stated repeatedly, nobody was talking about the Second Amendment being an unequivocal right to own guns until the late 1970s. So for the first 200 years of this country's history, no Republicans (or Democrats) were talking this stupid shit.

This is nothing but propaganda cooked-up by the NRA less than 50 years ago and it has brainwashed unsophisticated Republican goobers ever since, as this article explains. --





And here is why all of the Republican Constitution "Originalist scholars" are so full of shit as well. --




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It says the right of the people to keep in their arms shall not be infringed.

It's obvious to anyone that's honest and can read that it's a right of the people that's why it says that.

If the people aren't the individual citizens you're going to have to make an excuse for that.

This'll be good
 
Rucker61 said:
SCOTUS was.


In US v Cruikshank,1876, SCOTUS recognized that "The right there specified is that of "bearing arms for a lawful purpose." This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence." The decision recognized the right of two former slaves to keep a bear arms, two men who were not in the militia, would not have been allowed to be in the militia, in a state where the militia had been disbanded.

Without the recognition of an individual right to keep and bear arms, Miller, whose entire appeal was based upon that right, would have no standing to have his case reviewed by SCOTUS.

There have been six major pieces of gun control legislation passed by Congress, all prior to Heller: NFA 1934, Gun Control Act of 1968, Firearm Owners Protection Act (including the Hughes Amendment) of 1986, the Brady Act, the Assault Weapons Ban and the Lautenburg Amendment.


The word militia isn't mentioned a single time in any of them. The words "individual", "person" and "citizen" are repeated hundreds of times.


In 1982 the Senate published a bipartisan report entitled "the right to keep and bear arms report" that affirmed an individual rights viewpoint.

In 1990 in US v Verdugo-Urquidez SCOTUS affirmed: "...it suggests that "the people" protected by the Fourth Amendment, and by the First and Second Amendments, and to whom rights and powers are reserved in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, refers to a class of persons who are part of a national community or who have otherwise developed sufficient connection with this country to be considered part of that community."

The same state legislatures who ratified the 2nd Amendment ratified state constitutions affirming an individual right. Why do you keep ignoring this?
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He's just making the ku Klux Klan argument.

They wanted to deny black people the ability to carry firearms so they made the argument that the people does not mean the individual people. It belongs to the people in the collective sense meaning a town can have an armory but a person can't.

This was so that KKK members didn't get shot if they were trying to Lynch a black person.

Going back to about the 16th century gun control has always been racist.
 
CLAX1911 said:
It says the right of the people to keep in their arms shall not be infringed.
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You can't even quote it correctly.

CLAX1911 said:
It's obvious to anyone that's honest and can read that it's a right of the people that's why it says that.
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Yet no one made that claim for the first 200 years of this country's history. Not even the NRA, which supported the 1968 gun control law.

CLAX1911 said:
If the people aren't the individual citizens you're going to have to make an excuse for that.
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Don't even know what that means. You probably don't, either.

CLAX1911 said:
This'll be good
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Not likely. Rucker61 usually puts up a pretty good fight, albeit totally misguided. Can't say the same for you. You're too caught up in sarcasm and vapid posts. You can't really debate because you don't know much.
 
RIP U.S. Democracy said:
You can't even quote it correctly.
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well it still says what it says and it says the right belongs to the people and that's what it was intended for

Yet no one made that claim for the first 200 years of this country's history. Not even the NRA, which supported the 1968 gun control law.
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the NRA has no interest in protecting our gun rights they are nothing they don't matter they don't do anything. All you do when you whine about them and show you have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you got your talking points from 1972 who knows

Don't even know what that means. You probably don't, either.
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never presume your ignorance is endemic.

Not likely. Rucker61 usually puts up a pretty good fight, albeit totally misguided. Can't say the same for you. You're too caught up in sarcasm and vapid posts. You can't really debate because you don't know much.
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that's probably because I know you're full of shit And they don't treat shit as legitimate.

My point in here is not convince you of anything it's to show other people how to dismiss you.

Nobody should ever be taking any of these gun control arguments seriously. The dead horses bones are dust it doesn't stop you from beating at the dust.

What people should do instead of engaging with you seriously this point and laugh. That's why I dress you with sarcasm that's why you hate it because it's true.
 
RIP U.S. Democracy said:
Yet no one made that claim for the first 200 years of this country's history.
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Um for the entirety of this countries existence (except for the last 50 odd years) people in power were not trying to take away the right to bear arms.

Also did the government come and take firearms after the US Constitution was ratified? Nope they did not, indicating that the people have a right to bear arms.

So why have individuals been able to own firearms for 246 years if the 2nd Amendment was never for individual ownership of firearms? Go ahead find historic evidence that individual firearm owners have been breaking the law of the land for 246 years.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Um for the entirety of this countries existence (except for the last 50 odd years) people in power were not trying to take away the right to bear arms.
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They haven't been trying to do it for the past 50 years, either. And you can't show otherwise. 40 years of NRA propaganda is not evidence.

FreedomFromAll said:
Also did the government come and take firearms after the US Constitution was ratified? Nope they did not, indicating that the people have a right to bear arms.
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Or more accurately...no one really cared. A few gun laws were passed, whoop-tee-doo. People didn't think of the 2nd Amendment as a precious "right" for the first 200 years of this country's history.

FreedomFromAll said:
So why have individuals been able to own firearms for 246 years if the 2nd Amendment was never for individual ownership of firearms? Go ahead find historic evidence that individual firearm owners have been breaking the law of the land for 246 years.
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See my two previous responses.
 
CLAX1911 said:
well it still says what it says and it says the right belongs to the people and that's what it was intended for

the NRA has no interest in protecting our gun rights they are nothing they don't matter they don't do anything. All you do when you whine about them and show you have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you got your talking points from 1972 who knows

never presume your ignorance is endemic.

that's probably because I know you're full of shit And they don't treat shit as legitimate.

My point in here is not convince you of anything it's to show other people how to dismiss you.

Nobody should ever be taking any of these gun control arguments seriously. The dead horses bones are dust it doesn't stop you from beating at the dust.

What people should do instead of engaging with you seriously this point and laugh. That's why I dress you with sarcasm that's why you hate it because it's true.
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Surprise me....explain to me what the Democrats did to turn the NRA against them in the late 1970s. It sure as hell wasn't gun control, because there was no difference between the Democrats and Republicans when it came to gun control.

The NRA never endorsed a presidential candidate until Reagan in 1980. And Reagan was pro-gun control as governor of CA in the 1960s. Nixon wanted to ban hand guns in the early 1970s.
 
RIP U.S. Democracy said:
Surprise me....explain to me what the Democrats did to turn the NRA against them in the late 1970s.
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What?

The NRA isn't relevant.


The NRA never endorsed a presidential candidate until Reagan in 1980. And Reagan was pro-gun control as governor of CA in the 1960s. Nixon wanted to ban hand guns in the early 1970s.
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Thank you for making my point.
 
Bullseye said:
Guess again; African Americans are drifting rightward.
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Not many. Hispanics have always been more right than realized and that continues.
The tough guy machismo crap the red hats wallow in is very appealing to many in these groups.
Dems continue to increase numbers among the educated.
 
CLAX1911 said:
And you're kvetching about the NRA.

I have nothing to offer because your complaints are stupid. You're going against an organization that does nothing.
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They do plenty....they've brainwashed millions of Republicans, including you, for over 40 years.

Republican talking points about "gun rights" come from the NRA. Even the least knowledgeable Republicans know this to be true.
 
RIP U.S. Democracy said:
They haven't been trying to do it for the past 50 years, either. And you can't show otherwise. 40 years of NRA propaganda is not evidence.


Or more accurately...no one really cared. A few gun laws were passed, whoop-tee-doo. People didn't think of the 2nd Amendment as a precious "right" for the first 200 years of this country's history.


See my two previous responses.
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Never liked the NRA so that angle will fail with me. While we are there, I'm not a gun nut so save the canned arguments for them; you are going to have to think on your own with me. For example: I'm not against regulating firearms. Obviously something needs to happen to curb gun violence.

Did you ever wonder why the right to bear arms was rated high enough to be the second amendment? Indeed the 2nd Amendment was a precious right that rated pretty damn high on the list to make it the 2nd Amendment. FFS its in the Bill of Rights.
 
RIP U.S. Democracy said:
They do plenty....they've brainwashed millions of Republicans, including you, for over 40 years.
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are you watched us to hate them why would they do that? I wouldn't call that plenty it's more like nothing.
Republican talking points about "gun rights" come from the NRA. Even the least knowledgeable Republicans know this to be true.
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Actually the points about gun rights comes from logic reason and the Constitution.

But I can see how an unreasonable person would think that that's some sort of conspiracy.
 
noonereal said:
Not many. Hispanics have always been more right than realized and that continues.
The tough guy machismo crap the red hats wallow in is very appealing to many in these groups.
Dems continue to increase numbers among the educated.
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"Educated"? You mean "indoctrinated", right? Or wokucated?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Never liked the NRA so that angle will fail with me. While we are there, I'm not a gun nut so save the canned arguments for them; you are going to have to think on your own with me. For example: I'm not against regulating firearms. Obviously something needs to happen to curb gun violence.

Did you ever wonder why the right to bear arms was rated high enough to be the second amendment? Indeed the 2nd Amendment was a precious right that rated pretty damn high on the list to make it the 2nd Amendment. FFS its in the Bill of Rights.
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A reading of history explains why, as I explained in Post #1. The 2nd Amendment was never intended to be a sacred individual right, as the NRA and Republicans constantly go on and on about. It was meant to allow citizens to form militias -- "bear arms" -- during times of war. That's all.

And that's how the 2nd Amendment was treated for the first 200 years of this country's history.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Actually the points about gun rights comes from logic reason and the Constitution.
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Yeah? They were "points" that nobody talked about during the first 200 years of this country's history.
 
CaughtInThe said:
kinda reminds one of how many things have changed from their origin...



Bellamy's original Pledge read:
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Is that in the Constitution?

Nope. So it can be changed easier that the Constitution. Our current version is better, IMHO.
 
smallvoice said:
So it can be changed easier that the Constitution.
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no doubt. it's been changed 5 times...



1892
(first version)[1]
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


1892 to 1923
(early revision by Bellamy)[2]
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


1923 to 1924[3]
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


1924 to 1954[3]
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


1954
(current version, per 4 U.S.C. §4)[4]
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
CLAX1911 said:
People stopped learning from history.
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In other words, you have no answer for why the NRA started their propaganda against the Democrats in the late 1970s and why they decided to endorse Reagan in 1980, the first Presidential candidate they ever endorsed.
 
RIP U.S. Democracy said:
In other words, you have no answer for why the NRA started their propaganda against the Democrats in the late 1970s and why they decided to endorse Reagan in 1980, the first Presidential candidate they ever endorsed.
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Umm. I think you're moving me up with some other poster. I never mentioned anything about Democrats the NRA and the late 70s.
 
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