How soon should Covid restrictions be removed?

[Overitall]

There are just way too many variables to actually vote. The left seem to be totally into the death count. They would rather see an economic depression the likes of which the world has never seen. They would rather see everyone's lives destroyed as long as they didn't die from the virus. The right, on the other hand, are more in Trump's corner in that if the cure (lockdowns) is worse than the disease then that simply isn't reality and that we can't destroy everyone's lives in order to save lives. Personally, I think the answer is letting the states decide the balance between not destroying people's lives due to economic devastation balanced with how many lives do you save. Therefore, every state would be different. If your area has more cases and deaths they would have to wait longer for the vaccine to be fully distributed rather than states with less cases could open back up much sooner.

 

[mrjurrs]

I thought I was clear.

That’s present tense, the last I checked.

Please note the difference between available, and distributed. Diamonds are available, not everyone has one.

 

[Overitall]

Please note the difference between available, and distributed. Diamonds are available, not everyone has one.

Nothing can be available if it hasn’t been distributed. Not everyone can afford a diamond but if they had the money they could buy one.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Your bias makes your posts stupid. Really stupid.

You mean my bias against the incredibly dumb "logic" by which the more mindless members of "Claque Trump" endeavour to **P*R*O*V*E** that COVID-19 isn't serious at all?

Put everything into context and Cuomo has been remarkable, NY is the safest state in the country.

Currently, New York

​

ranks 50th out of 51 in terms of "Deaths per Million" to date;

​

ranks 31st out of 51 in terms of "Cases per Million" to date, and

​

ranks 8th out of 51 in terms of "Recovered per Million" to date.

What the "spot ratios" for the individual states are I have no idea, but I do note that the general performance of the "Blue States" is improving while the general performance of the "Red States" is getting worse. (See graphs under first two tables and note on third table)

Sorry this fact does not fit you politics, go play with someone else.

I rather suspect that you have no actual idea what my actual "politics" are. When the "Wacko Left" describes someone as a "Flaming Fascist" and the "Wacko Right" describes them as a "Flaming Commie", where does that person fall on the "political scale"?

PS - The "political scale" I refer to is this one

If you divide the world's political spectrum into seven general categories "Far Left", "Left", "Left Center", "Center", "Right Center". "Right", and "Far Right" then divide each of those categories into " - ", "neutral", and "+" so that your scale now runs from "Far Far Left -" [equalling 1] to "Far Far Right +" [equalling 21]. For simplicity, think of the divisions as

1. “Far Left” (1, 2, &3),
2. “Left” (4, 5, & 6),
3. “Left Center” (7, 8, & 9),
4. “Center” (10, 11, & 12),
5. “Right Center” (13, 14, & 15),
6. “Right” (16, 17, & 18) and
7. “Far Right” (19, 20, & 21).

When you use that scale then:

• Canada’s “New Democratic Party” probably comes in around an “8” or “9” (sort of “[Moderate to Conservative] Left Center”); and
• Canada’s “Liberal Party” probably comes in around an “11” or “12” (sort of “[Center to Conservative] Center”); and
• the "Libertarians" probably coming in around "12" to "13" (on the "Center" - "Right Right" border); and
• Canada’s “Conservative Party” probably comes in around a “13” or “14” (sort of “[Progressive to Moderate] Right Center”); and
• the Democrats probably come in around "14" to "15" (sort of “[Moderate to Conservative] Right Center"); and
• the Republicans probably come in around "16" to "17" (sort of “[Progressive to Center] Right"); and with
• the T.E.A. Party probably coming in around "17" to "18" (sort of “[Center to Conservative] Right".

The vast majority of world politics is probably in the "7" ("Progressive Center Left") to "15" ("Conservative Center Right) range.

[NOTE – “Kleptocracies” and “One-Man-Band” governments don’t really have “politics” as we generally consider them to be.]​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I think you are missing something. Fauci has said that in order for a vaccine to be approved it must be 50% effective. So either it prevents disease half of the time or else it prevents serious disease half of the time-as well as a good safety profile. Either one, or both, must be true. They are not going to approve a useless drug unless the orange buffoon overrules them.

You are missing something. Dr. Fauci is NOT the one who makes the rules. Even less so is Dr. Fauci the person who has the authority to tell the person who does make the rules what rules to make.

That being said, I do agree that the MINIMUM should be 50%.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I’m not sure he has the authority to do that other than a EO. But if he did that I think it would be political suicide and should he win in November I believe there would be a major shift among Republican leaders for his impeachment.

Since the EO can require that the contents of the EO (or even the existence of the EO itself) remain secret, and since the time span prior to the election is so short, that's no real problem.

 

[Overitall]

TU couldn’t you have simply linked to here

Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19

I'm starting this thread to save bandwidth. If you have any dispute/discussion regarding the statistics, please feel free to link back to the latest post in the NEW THREAD that you start so that we can debate what your dispute/discussion is. I'll update the list and table daily (I hope), but...

debatepolitics.com

instead of taking up so much space in this thread?

 

[Overitall]

Since the EO can require that the contents of the EO (or even the existence of the EO itself) remain secret, and since the time span prior to the election is so short, that's no real problem.

True but you forget one thing. Whistleblowers.

 

[Paradoxical]

So we're back to "die for the economy."

Sorry, dude. Not dying for your pocketbook.

Not my pocketbook. You are robbing our children and you don’t give a shit.

 

[Ethel2]

You are missing something. Dr. Fauci is NOT the one who makes the rules. Even less so is Dr. Fauci the person who has the authority to tell the person who does make the rules what rules to make.

That being said, I do agree that the MINIMUM should be 50%.

I never said Fauci makes the rules. My guess is that he has a hand in it, but he certainly doesn't make them alone, if he is even involved. What I said is that he EXPLAINED the process of how a vaccine might be approved, that it takes 50% effectiveness, among other factors.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

TU couldn’t you have simply linked to here

Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19

I'm starting this thread to save bandwidth. If you have any dispute/discussion regarding the statistics, please feel free to link back to the latest post in the NEW THREAD that you start so that we can debate what your dispute/discussion is. I'll update the list and table daily (I hope), but...

debatepolitics.com

instead of taking up so much space in this thread?

I could have.

I chose not to.

You might find today's listing of states by mortality rate interesting

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

True but you forget one thing. Whistleblowers.

The rule regarding whistleblowers is that no anonymous source of information is to be believed because they are all part of the wacko, loony, crazy, left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commies who are a part of the huge, vast, enormous, secret, hidden, covert, conspiratorial plot to force a coup against DONALD JOHN TRUMP whom God guided Americans into choosing as THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA so that THE UNITED! STATES OF AMERICA! could fulfill its God Mandated role as the Saviour of Mankind and who want to impose Sherry Law (with its mandatory same-sex, inter-racial, marriages and forced abortions of all white, male, pre-born, children AND compulsory autism causing vaccinations) on America so that all the Cheerleaders would have to wear Burke Hats and football would be banned because it uses pig skin.

UNLESS, of course, they are saying something that you want to hear in which case there is absolutely no doubt that they are speaking **T*H*E** **T*R*U*T*H** and it is time for

1. indictment/impeachment;
   
2. Prosecution opening statement that summarizes what the Prosecution evidence will be (when it is presented) and what the Prosecution evidence will prove (once it has been presented);
   
3. Defence opening statement that summarizes what the Defence evidence will be (when it is presented) and what the Defence evidence will prove (once it has been presented) [NOTE - Optional];
   
4. -Presentation of evidence by the Prosecution-;
   
5. -Cross-examination of Prosecution evidence by the Defence-;
   
6. -Presentation of evidence by the Defence-;
   
7. -Cross-examination of Defence evidence by the Prosecution-;
   
8. Prosecution closing statement that summarizes what the evidence -was (or was not)- would have been and what the evidence would have proved (or didn't prove) had there been any;
   
9. Defence closing statement that summarizes what the evidence -was (or was not)- would have been and what the evidence would have proved (or didn't prove) had there been any [NOTE - Optional];
   
10. -Court instructions to the Trier of Fact as to what the law is and what the duties of the Trier of Fact are-;
    
11. -Impartial Trier of Fact deliberation on what the evidence was (or was not) and what the evidence proved (or didn't prove)-;
    
    and
    
12. -NON--predetermined decision of -innocence or- guilt;
    

in order to protect freedom and democracy.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I never said Fauci makes the rules. My guess is that he has a hand in it, but he certainly doesn't make them alone, if he is even involved. What I said is that he EXPLAINED the process of how a vaccine might be approved, that it takes 50% effectiveness, among other factors.

Dr. Fauci explained what is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN in order for a vaccine to be approved.

However, you are correct, Dr. Fauci does not make the rules. The rules are made by the people who can tell the CDC what they ARE going to do and by the person who can tell those people what they ARE going to tell the CDC that the CDC MUST do.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Assuming that a safe and effective vaccine is made available. how soon afterwards do you feel it would be safe to reopen the entire country?

I'm leaning towards immediately since we've already have developed better treatments and even though some are still dying from it those numbers are in decline.

How about we leave it up to each state and local government to decide based on the right balance between what's happening there with the virus and what the people there want. That's why we have state and local governments.

 

[Overitall]

How about we leave it up to each state and local government to decide based on the right balance between what's happening there with the virus and what the people there want. That's why we have state and local governments.

Ok. You want the government to make decisions for you. The nanny state does have a certain appeal.

 

[Overitall]

The rule regarding whistleblowers is that no anonymous source of information is to be believed because they are all part of the wacko, loony, crazy, left-wing, liberal, socialist, pinko, commies who are a part of the huge, vast, enormous, secret, hidden, covert, conspiratorial plot to force a coup against DONALD JOHN TRUMP whom God guided Americans into choosing as THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA so that THE UNITED! STATES OF AMERICA! could fulfill its God Mandated role as the Saviour of Mankind and who want to impose Sherry Law (with its mandatory same-sex, inter-racial, marriages and forced abortions of all white, male, pre-born, children AND compulsory autism causing vaccinations) on America so that all the Cheerleaders would have to wear Burke Hats and football would be banned because it uses pig skin.

UNLESS, of course, they are saying something that you want to hear in which case there is absolutely no doubt that they are speaking **T*H*E** **T*R*U*T*H** and it is time for

1. indictment/impeachment;
2. Prosecution opening statement that summarizes what the Prosecution evidence will be (when it is presented) and what the Prosecution evidence will prove (once it has been presented);
3. Defence opening statement that summarizes what the Defence evidence will be (when it is presented) and what the Defence evidence will prove (once it has been presented) [NOTE - Optional];
4. -Presentation of evidence by the Prosecution-;
5. -Cross-examination of Prosecution evidence by the Defence-;
6. -Presentation of evidence by the Defence-;
7. -Cross-examination of Defence evidence by the Prosecution-;
8. Prosecution closing statement that summarizes what the evidence -was (or was not)- would have been and what the evidence would have proved (or didn't prove) had there been any;
9. Defence closing statement that summarizes what the evidence -was (or was not)- would have been and what the evidence would have proved (or didn't prove) had there been any [NOTE - Optional];
10. -Court instructions to the Trier of Fact as to what the law is and what the duties of the Trier of Fact are-;
11. -Impartial Trier of Fact deliberation on what the evidence was (or was not) and what the evidence proved (or didn't prove)-;
    
    and
12. -NON--predetermined decision of -innocence or- guilt;

in order to protect freedom and democracy.

Very creative with fonts. Are you an artist?

 

[Ethel2]

Dr. Fauci explained what is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN in order for a vaccine to be approved.

However, you are correct, Dr. Fauci does not make the rules. The rules are made by the people who can tell the CDC what they ARE going to do and by the person who can tell those people what they ARE going to tell the CDC that the CDC MUST do.

Redfield, head of the CDC, reports to Alex Azar, secretary of health and human services. Azar reports to the jackass. That is why I no longer trust the CDC. Unless Redfield has the integrity to refuse to carry out an order by Azar and the jackass to approve a vaccine or therapy prematurely, lives can be unnecessarily be put at risk. As long as the jackass is indirectly in charge of the CDC its at risk for being contaminated by him-and we all know that he doesn't care about anyone else but himself.

 

[antiquity]

When the rate of infection per 100 thousand reaches less than 20.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

When the rate of infection per 100 thousand reaches less than 20.

Today's US rate of infection (using newly reported cases to calculate it) is approximately 12.08/100,000. Does that mean that you advocate immediate elimination of all social distancing and other similar preventative/ameliorative measures?