How soon should Covid restrictions be removed?

[X Factor]

We could go back to normalcy, with the reminder that this spreads morea easily and is more dangerous to some people than most viruses.

I am sick and tired of the over-authoritarian nature of the government we are allowing. How can so many free-thinking believers put up with this nonsense?

Let business set their own rules.

Don't stop the free exercise of our rights.

Owners have the right to set standards for entry into their businesses.

Let freedom ring!

It really is amazing how so many not just accept strict indefinite lockdowns but have actual hostility for anyone that questions them.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Assuming that a safe and effective vaccine is made available. how soon afterwards do you feel it would be safe to reopen the entire country?

I'm leaning towards immediately since we've already have developed better treatments and even though some are still dying from it those numbers are in decline.

When the "R0" numbers SAY it is safe. We already know how to do this stuff and we have known how for decades.
Pandemic management did not suddenly become a dark art in 2019 or 2020.

An R0 number tells you the average number of people who will contract a contagious disease from one person with that disease. It specifically applies to a population of people who were previously free of infection and haven’t been vaccinated.

For example, if a disease has an R0 of 18, a person who has the disease will transmit it to an average of 18 other people. That replication will continue if no one has been vaccinated against the disease or is already immune to it in their community.

So, we use vaccines to inoculate and promote immunity and we use antiviral meds to clear current cases aggressively, and we knock that R number down to as close to zero as possible, and then we can lift restrictions.
And IT CAN BE DONE!
We already know how to do this but we need cooperation from people to make it a reality.

 

[Mycroft]

Fair enough. I’m under the impression that a vaccine’s purpose is to offer protection against the virus. If everyone within your state has been vaccinated where’s the numbers justifying continued restrictions?

As the Governor, I'll wait and see what happens.

Keep in mind that a governor doesn't have the power to demand that everyone in his state be vaccinated...no more than a governor has the power to demand that everyone in his state eat spinach.

 

[Overitall]

As the Governor, I'll wait and see what happens.

Keep in mind that a governor doesn't have the power to demand that everyone in his state be vaccinated...no more than a governor has the power to demand that everyone in his state eat spinach.

I’m not sure if a Governor can demand (although currently vaccinations are a requirement for school children) but places of businesses can.

As a Governor if you wait too long you may find yourself dealing with other issues more detrimental to your state. Like very high unemployment. I know it’s a balancing act, but nevertheless a decision can’t wait too long.

 

[X Factor]

When the "R0" numbers SAY it is safe. We already know how to do this stuff and we have known how for decades.
Pandemic management did not suddenly become a dark art in 2019 or 2020.

An R0 number tells you the average number of people who will contract a contagious disease from one person with that disease. It specifically applies to a population of people who were previously free of infection and haven’t been vaccinated.

For example, if a disease has an R0 of 18, a person who has the disease will transmit it to an average of 18 other people. That replication will continue if no one has been vaccinated against the disease or is already immune to it in their community.

So, we use vaccines to inoculate and promote immunity and we use antiviral meds to clear current cases aggressively, and we knock that R number down to as close to zero as possible, and then we can lift restrictions.
And IT CAN BE DONE!
We already know how to do this but we need cooperation from people to make it a reality.

OOORRRRR, we can acknowledge it’s pointless to “hide” from a virus and just lift restrictions and, at least, pretend we’re still a country that believes in freedom.

Then again, since it’s been proven that mass protests are exempt from Covid 19, maybe we can all fool it and make our daily activities look like protests. Like, when it’s time to go shopping we can run in, grab whatever we can carry then run toward the exit but veer off for the cash register at the last minute.

 

[Mycroft]

I’m not sure if a Governor can demand (although currently vaccinations are a requirement for school children) but places of businesses can.

As a Governor if you wait too long you may find yourself dealing with other issues more detrimental to your state. Like very high unemployment. I know it’s a balancing act, but nevertheless a decision can’t wait too long.

I agree.

 

[Overitall]

When the "R0" numbers SAY it is safe. We already know how to do this stuff and we have known how for decades.
Pandemic management did not suddenly become a dark art in 2019 or 2020.

An R0 number tells you the average number of people who will contract a contagious disease from one person with that disease. It specifically applies to a population of people who were previously free of infection and haven’t been vaccinated.

For example, if a disease has an R0 of 18, a person who has the disease will transmit it to an average of 18 other people. That replication will continue if no one has been vaccinated against the disease or is already immune to it in their community.

So, we use vaccines to inoculate and promote immunity and we use antiviral meds to clear current cases aggressively, and we knock that R number down to as close to zero as possible, and then we can lift restrictions.
And IT CAN BE DONE!
We already know how to do this but we need cooperation from people to make it a reality.

I thought I made it clear that a vaccine is available (under the premise of my poll). Obviously not everyone will opt to take the vaccine but assuming the majority in your community will when do you think the restrictions should be removed?

 

[Captain Adverse]

It really is amazing how so many not just accept strict indefinite lockdowns but have actual hostility for anyone that questions them.

It's not unusual for those who prefer asserting authoritarian controls negating freedoms in the name of security. Always forgetting (or intentionally ignoring) the truism that those who chose this eventually lose both freedom and security.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I thought I made it clear that a vaccine is available (under the premise of my poll). Obviously not everyone will opt to take the vaccine but assuming the majority in your community will when do you think the restrictions should be removed?

That's why I said what I said, didn't you read it?
Epidemiologists go by the R numbers.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

OOORRRRR, we can acknowledge it’s pointless to “hide” from a virus and just lift restrictions and, at least, pretend we’re still a country that believes in freedom.

Then again, since it’s been proven that mass protests are exempt from Covid 19, maybe we can all fool it and make our daily activities look like protests. Like, when it’s time to go shopping we can run in, grab whatever we can carry then run toward the exit but veer off for the cash register at the last minute.

Sorry, no "herd mentality" solutions, thanks.

 

[Overitall]

That's why I said what I said, didn't you read it?
Epidemiologists go by the R numbers.

Sure I read it but I didn’t want to do the So, what you’re saying is. . . thingy.

 

[X Factor]

It's not unusual for those who prefer asserting authoritarian controls negating freedoms in the name of security. Always forgetting (or intentionally ignoring) the truism that those who chose this eventually lose both freedom and security.

Then you get the argument that it’s worth it if it saves just one life. Shoot, if that’s the standard the government could, literally, lock us up in our houses and that would surely save, at least, one life. I think it’s important to take the risk of contracting the virus seriously, but I’d still rather live relatively freely with risks than live in total security with no freedom.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Sure I read it but I didn’t want to do the So, what you’re saying is. . . thingy.

Sorry but that is how it has always worked.
The contagion level and the data that proves the transmissibility - or lack thereof, are the "traffic lights" that have to turn green in order to safely begin lifting restrictions.
The thing that makes COVID-19 stand out so much is just the fact that it spreads so damned easily, much more so than almost any other virus that preceded it. And that is because it is a SARS type bug.

Virus name
severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2
(SARS-CoV-2)

Disease name
coronavirus disease
(COVID-19)

The world already went through SARS and MERS (the Middle Eastern version of SARS) and that's when we learned how easily SARS gets transmitted, and that is when we all started seeing people in Asian countries wearing masks.
They HAD to, they were dropping like flies without them!
And it turns out the SARS-CoV-2 virus spreads even faster.

All we have to do is get the numbers as close to R0 as possible.
As of this morning, LA County is officially at R0.89 according to my contact tracing app.
If we get it below something like R0.7 or R0.5 LA County will begin to loosen restrictions the way Orange County is doing right now just a few minutes South of us.

Some parts of Florida are currently R8.5 - which is an outrageously high number.
It is, quite simply, disastrous.

 

[Casper]

Assuming that a safe and effective vaccine is made available. how soon afterwards do you feel it would be safe to reopen the entire country?

I'm leaning towards immediately since we've already have developed better treatments and even though some are still dying from it those numbers are in decline.

The vaccine will not be available to everyone at once, there is a priority list and most won't get it for months and from what is being reported people who get their first vaccine will have to get a booster shot in 3 months and it must be exactly the same vaccine they got the first time. It will be this time next year before we all have access and are vaccinated if we are lucky. So I think you are jumping the gun here just a tad.

 

[Overitall]

The vaccine will not be available to everyone at once, there is a priority list and most won't get it for months and from what is being reported people who get their first vaccine will have to get a booster shot in 3 months and it must be exactly the same vaccine they got the first time. It will be this time next year before we all have access and are vaccinated if we are lucky. So I think you are jumping the gun here just a tad.

Casper, the basis of this poll is the assumption that the vaccine IS available.

 

[Casper]

Casper, the basis of this poll is the assumption that the vaccine IS available.

I understand that, I am just pointing out that it will be a long while before it is available to all of us.

 

[Overitall]

I understand that, I am just pointing out that it will be a long while before it is available to all of us.

Ok.

 

[zsu2357]

Please stop the BS the number of deaths has "declined" before only to go right back up again. According to Fauci, it will take at least until the 3rd quarter of 2021 before we can think about "normalcy". Even that may be optimistic. Do you want to volunteer to be the last person to die from Covid 19?

Stop and give it a little thought. If you had to guess, why do you think the number of deaths have gone down? I'll help you out, it's because everyone is going around playing the new normal home game all masked up. Fewer of all kinds of bugs to pass around. Heart attack= covid related, carbon monoxide poisoning=covid related, hell get hit by a truck crossing the street=covid related it seems. I came across this (ha,ha chuckle, chuckle) a while back.
https://thefreedomarticles.com/how-to-create-your-very-own-fake-pandemic/ if nothing else it's a good read.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Here I am thinking it may be wise to listen to medical professionals, but hell no... the umpteenth debate on which politician and/or network to listen to.

 

[Ethel2]

Go to cdc.gov. Look it up for yourself.

I looked at it. Nowhere on that site is a plan that stretches across states. Every state can do whatever they want, using whatever numbers they want to use to reopen their economies. There are no recommendations that include penalties for noncompliance to guide when each state or municipality should consider reopening. Without teeth these guidelines have fallen flat on their faces. And with a jackass in the white house who encourages states to disregard the CDC guidelines noncompliance is widespread. Furthermore, those are CDC guidelines that have been politicized and changed based on pressure from the white house.
Fact is, there are 50 individual plans, not one national plan. Every single country that has successfully managed this has had a cohesive mandatory plan that includes sanctions for scofflaws if dumbasses in their population refuse to comply. For example, people caught on the street when they shouldn't be there in some Asian nations are locked inside their homes. Others are fined a significant amount of money. Most other nations do not have the number of dumbasses who think that they can do whatever they want whenever they want to do it that we do here. Too many people here need to repeat second grade where they should be taught again how to play nicely with others.

 

[Mycroft]

I looked at it. Nowhere on that site is a plan that stretches across states. Every state can do whatever they want, using whatever numbers they want to use to reopen their economies. There are no recommendations that include penalties for noncompliance to guide when each state or municipality should consider reopening. Without teeth these guidelines have fallen flat on their faces. And with a jackass in the white house who encourages states to disregard the CDC guidelines noncompliance is widespread. Furthermore, those are CDC guidelines that have been politicized and changed based on pressure from the white house.
Fact is, there are 50 individual plans, not one national plan. Every single country that has successfully managed this has had a cohesive mandatory plan that includes sanctions for scofflaws if dumbasses in their population refuse to comply. For example, people caught on the street when they shouldn't be there in some Asian nations are locked inside their homes. Others are fined a significant amount of money. Most other nations do not have the number of dumbasses who think that they can do whatever they want whenever they want to do it that we do here. Too many people here need to repeat second grade where they should be taught again how to play nicely with others.

Dude...all the federal government can do is provide guidelines. They don't have the power to "include penalties for noncompliance".

Sorry if that chaps your ass, but that's how things run in the US. Maybe you should go live in one of those other countries.

 

[Acadia]

If I do then I'll probably never know how you voted. No great loss.

Or probably never know you had it.

 

[Overitall]

Or probably never know you had it.

I’m pretty sure I would know it. I’m in the extremely compromised group.

 

[Ethel2]

Dude...all the federal government can do is provide guidelines. They don't have the power to "include penalties for noncompliance".

Sorry if that chaps your ass, but that's how things run in the US. Maybe you should go live in one of those other countries.

You are naive if you believe that the federal government does not have the leverage to nearly compel states to issue fines or other penalties for not complying with its "suggestions". How many states do you think would refuse the "suggestion" that a mask mandate with appropriate penalties (mandates without teeth, as we have seen, are useless because there are too many know-it-all dumbasses out there) be enforced or else all federal funding for the state would be on hold? You know as well as I do that nearly every state-if not ALL of them-would comply. Money talks.

 

[Phys251]

Assuming that a safe and effective vaccine is made available. how soon afterwards do you feel it would be safe to reopen the entire country?

I'm leaning towards immediately since we've already have developed better treatments and even though some are still dying from it those numbers are in decline.

How about instead of slapping an artificial timeline, for once we listen to the epidemiologists who have given us the clearest pathway possible out of this pandemic?