• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How Obama is Invading Your Home

zimmer

Educating the Ignorant
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
24,380
Reaction score
7,805
Location
Worldwide
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
How Obama is Invading Your Home | Competitive Enterprise Institute

The Obama administration isn't satisfied giving the American public vast things we don't want — from stimulus packages to bailouts to ObamaCare: It's a small-scale nuisance, too — witness its attempt to redesign home appliances.

Just weeks after taking office, the president ordered the Energy Department to speed up the process of issuing harsh new energy-efficiency standards for appliances.

In the pipeline are dumb regulations for almost everything that plugs in or fires up in your home.

In nearly every case, consumers who want more efficient appliances — or those compact fluorescent light bulbs — are free to buy them. Energy-use labels tell you everything you need to know to make comparisons. All the federal rules do is is to force the government's preferred choice on everyone.

Once again, a government agencies unaccountable to the masses shoving crap down our throats.

.
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I'm less concerned about the Department of Energy having stricter standards for appliances and more concerned about the greater powers given to FISA courts under Bush.

And frankly, that it is still given.
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
77,197
Reaction score
34,104
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Incandescent bulbs are ancient, obsolete, horribly inefficient pieces of technology. They're almost 200 years old now. You run electricity through a wire that, due to its inefficiency of transfer, will heat up like crazy. It heats up enough to glow, and you get light. 90% of the electricity used in such a bulb is wasted as heat. They're responsible for an enormous amount of waste across the world. They have to go. Blah blah blah personal rights. Guess what? You can't have your incandescent bulbs, whale oil, or old-fashioned coal plants that run completely without emissions control. It's cheaper to buy electricity from such a plant, but it also destroys the ecosystem due to acid rain, and the amount of uranium in coal means that there's more uranium waste from a coal plant than a nuclear plant, except it's spit directly into the atmosphere.

Incandescent bulbs cause massive power waste which causes pollution. There's no constitutional right to pollute the air. Deal with it. CFL's will save you money anyway.
 
Last edited:

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
79,903
Reaction score
20,981
Location
I love your hate.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Fisa continued under obama


Cfl bulbs are full of mercury.


Hooray progress. :roll:
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
77,197
Reaction score
34,104
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Fisa continued under obama


Cfl bulbs are full of mercury.


Hooray progress. :roll:

Halogen and LED lights do not have mercury. CFLs contain, on average, about 4mg of mercury. Some as low as 1.5mg. In fact, an incandescent bulb ends up putting more mercury into the environment just from the extra electricity use. (mercury being a small part of the emissions of coal power plants)

Incandescent bulbs are 200 year old technology. Sorry.
 

Guy Incognito

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
11,216
Reaction score
2,818
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I applaud this. What zimmer calls "cramming crap down our throats" is in fact some of the most intelligent and thoughtful environmental legislation I've seen. This is the sort of systemic approach to sustainability that we should have had all along. It eliminates a lot of waste, and the only people who don't like it are the ones who have a vested interest in the manufacture of old-fashioned, inefficient light bulbs and refrigerators. It might be interference with people's freedom to use wasteful high-flow toilets, but they still can use them, they just have to pay more. It's far more libertarian to support environmentally sound regulatory policy than to use the government as a bludgeon to prop up a dying industry of wasteful, obsolete fixture technology.
 
Last edited:

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
33,717
Reaction score
22,516
Location
Southern England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
This thread encapsulates the American political debate. The conservative makes an irrational untrue claim which evokes a fearful emotional response. The liberal side responds with rational factual argument which is largely lost in the fear. Their problem is not the message but the mode of transmission.
 

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
51,256
Reaction score
33,416
Location
The Golden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Well, I for one am a red blooded American conservative, and I want my rights to 200 year old technology. The gestapo like highway patrol, paid for by the gubment that wants to run our lives, won't let me drive my horse and buggy on the freeway, claiming nonsense like highway safety and the inability of my conveyance to keep up with traffic, not to mention no seat belts or air bags.

And if I want to buy a brand new refrigerator made just like the one grandpa had, why is that invasive government telling me I cant?

Dang liberals are ruining the country!
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
CFLs contain, on average, about 4mg of mercury. Some as low as 1.5mg.
Citation of any CFL that has 1.5mg of mercury?

In fact, an incandescent bulb ends up putting more mercury into the environment just from the extra electricity use. (mercury being a small part of the emissions of coal power plants)
The same power plants will end up putting the same amount of mercury in the atmosphere as long as coal is used. You're hanging a red herring on incandecent bulbs. Second, CFL's are considered toxic and mercury vapor used in CFL's, as other forms are mercury are cumulative, meaning - they can accumulate in a house over time. Thinking of how many incandecent lightbulbs have busted over the years in my house - were they CFL's my home may be toxic to animal or children for that matter. Third, mercury CFL bulbs have to be disposed of in a toxic recycling facility - not so with incandecent lightbulbs. And lastly - if I want to pay more and use inefficient appliances, bulbs, cars, computers, etc... who has the right to tell me I cannot as long as I pay for the inefficency?

Regarding the article - I have a few houses I rent and have remodeled. I would not install new toilets in my own house as the high efficiency toilets - well, they suck. Yep I use more water at my house, but I also have my own well. All these bans and changes are going to do is push the "inefficient" stuff into the second or third markets. Go down to some shabby part of town, not for drugs or prostitutes, but for a refurbed shower head, some light bulbs and a blender that actually blends something. Mass use and the incorrect disposal of CFL's under the guise of "efficiency" will eventually poison people, give them cancer and with mercury - it never goes away. Even 4mg of it. Give me the inefficient Edison lightbulb any day.

Incandescent bulbs are 200 year old technology. Sorry.
And there's nothing wrong with them. 200 years old, or 2,000 years old when something works it works. Until some smart person invents a non-toxic updated version of a lightbulb that's more efficient and affordable, I'm stocking up on incandecent bulbs.
 

namvet46

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
60
Reaction score
22
Location
Missouri
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
NAN3276.jpg


wait till he gets to your cars​
 

Tomoko

New member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
23
Reaction score
10
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Speaking of energy and efficientcy...This whole electric car thing I think is BS. I don't know about you folks but I like to hear my car respond after shifting gears and punching the gas pedal...I want to put ultra premium fuel into my car..not plug into some wall outlet..there's nothing appealing about those ugly little cars too. I hate the EPA about as much as I hate PETA. They could choose the option of making more diesel 4-cylinder engines in smaller mid-size trucks and cars..the mileage per gallon would be excellent..when I lived back home in Japan I had a toyota truck that was diesel and it would go forever. Let them suck on that tailpipe.
 
Last edited:

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
This thread encapsulates the American political debate. The conservative makes an irrational untrue claim which evokes a fearful emotional response. The liberal side responds with rational factual argument which is largely lost in the fear. Their problem is not the message but the mode of transmission.

I wouldn't limit it to only conservatives, but this is the problem here. And partisans are more than willing to swallow their critical thinking and willingly suspend their disbelief.
 

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
79,903
Reaction score
20,981
Location
I love your hate.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Halogen and LED lights do not have mercury. CFLs contain, on average, about 4mg of mercury. Some as low as 1.5mg. In fact, an incandescent bulb ends up putting more mercury into the environment just from the extra electricity use. (mercury being a small part of the emissions of coal power plants)

Incandescent bulbs are 200 year old technology. Sorry.



Gotta link for that claim?
 

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
79,903
Reaction score
20,981
Location
I love your hate.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
79,903
Reaction score
20,981
Location
I love your hate.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
This thread encapsulates the American political debate. The conservative makes an irrational untrue claim which evokes a fearful emotional response. The liberal side responds with rational factual argument which is largely lost in the fear. Their problem is not the message but the mode of transmission.




So only liberals can be right? Are you freaking serious bro? :lamo



This thread is filled with lulz, the Good Reverend thanks you.
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
:lamo


no really...


:lamo

Always good to some things never change. But a worthy response from you would be a nice change all the same. MS was correct. People are hyperbolic in their misbeliefs. Perhaps you would limit that to republicans, I can only guess from your response, but he was otherwise correct.
 

Barbbtx

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
8,467
Reaction score
1,993
Location
W'Ford TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
I'm stocking up on incandecent bulbs.

Better hurry....



Sep 8, 2010 ... The radical left forced the last US light bulb plant to close its doors. From now on we will import all of green bulbs from China. ...
Gateway Pundit
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
They have, LED light bulbs.

Hm...

Cost per hour of use is lower on the incandecent lightbulb. LED lights are very expensive - so affordable LED's are not. Nor are CFL's. Given the low cost of incandecent bulbs, and the potential hazards of CFL's, I don't agree that the efficiency trade off is being enough to make the change. It may make sense when our population is 1 billion people and the energy needs are so tight that efficiency is a life/death issue - but that has yet to happen.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Better hurry....



Sep 8, 2010 ... The radical left forced the last US light bulb plant to close its doors. From now on we will import all of green bulbs from China. ... .
Gateway Pundit


There's plenty left and there will still be plent manufactured. I purchase bulbs every time im in the hardware store. 2x 12packs once a month - I'll be set for 20 years
 

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
79,903
Reaction score
20,981
Location
I love your hate.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Always good to some things never change. But a worthy response from you would be a nice change all the same. MS was correct. People are hyperbolic in their misbeliefs. Perhaps you would limit that to republicans, I can only guess from your response, but he was otherwise correct.



blah blah blah blah. You calling anyone hyper-partisan is more Ironic than a sheryl crow song and it's not about a right and left thing brother. . :prof
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
77,197
Reaction score
34,104
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Citation of any CFL that has 1.5mg of mercury?
Green Lighting Guide | Environmental Working Group

The same power plants will end up putting the same amount of mercury in the atmosphere as long as coal is used. You're hanging a red herring on incandecent bulbs.
Incorrect. You can calculate the mercury emissions of a coal plant per kilowatt-hour. One incandescent bulb ends up emitting more mercury than the mercury contained in the CFL + the mercury from CFL energy use.

Second, CFL's are considered toxic and mercury vapor used in CFL's, as other forms are mercury are cumulative, meaning - they can accumulate in a house over time. Thinking of how many incandecent lightbulbs have busted over the years in my house - were they CFL's my home may be toxic to animal or children for that matter. Third, mercury CFL bulbs have to be disposed of in a toxic recycling facility - not so with incandecent lightbulbs. And lastly - if I want to pay more and use inefficient appliances, bulbs, cars, computers, etc... who has the right to tell me I cannot as long as I pay for the inefficency?

That's the thing, you aren't paying for the inefficiency. You aren't paying the environmental cleanup costs of your extra energy use. Your incandescent bulb is artificially cheap because you aren't billed for the emissions.

Regarding the article - I have a few houses I rent and have remodeled. I would not install new toilets in my own house as the high efficiency toilets - well, they suck. Yep I use more water at my house, but I also have my own well. All these bans and changes are going to do is push the "inefficient" stuff into the second or third markets. Go down to some shabby part of town, not for drugs or prostitutes, but for a refurbed shower head, some light bulbs and a blender that actually blends something. Mass use and the incorrect disposal of CFL's under the guise of "efficiency" will eventually poison people, give them cancer and with mercury - it never goes away. Even 4mg of it. Give me the inefficient Edison lightbulb any day.

Halogen bulbs are more efficient if you're that worried about mercury.

And there's nothing wrong with them. 200 years old, or 2,000 years old when something works it works. Until some smart person invents a non-toxic updated version of a lightbulb that's more efficient and affordable, I'm stocking up on incandecent bulbs.

Do you also oppose cleaner standards for power plants?
 
Top Bottom