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How much farther left can we actually move?

Lutherf

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This CNN bit must have been Monday but I just saw the clip today. Don Lemon actually asked Gladys Knight if she was concerned that singing the National Anthem at the Super Bowl would hurt her career!



To her credit, she handled the question quite well. I'd have probably asked him if he was out of his damned mind.

How did we EVER get to a point where American pride, respect for the principles of liberty and honoring the continual fight to preserve that liberty has become a potential threat?
 
How did we EVER get to a point where American pride, respect for the principles of liberty and honoring the continual fight to preserve that liberty has become a potential threat?

Well, it's pretty simple. The right-wing half of the country has decided that patriotism is all about singing songs, wearing colors, and waving flags and not about actually upholding the fundamental principles that made our nation great. The number of disgusting idiots who extol racism, xenophobia, sexism, and all-out sheer ignorance while wrapping themselves up tightly in the flag has made decent human beings not want to be associated with them.
 
This CNN bit must have been Monday but I just saw the clip today. Don Lemon actually asked Gladys Knight if she was concerned that singing the National Anthem at the Super Bowl would hurt her career!



To her credit, she handled the question quite well. I'd have probably asked him if he was out of his damned mind.

How did we EVER get to a point where American pride, respect for the principles of liberty and honoring the continual fight to preserve that liberty has become a potential threat?


We're not really that far left right now as it is. To imply that we are is asinine.

Singing the national anthem is just singing the national anthem, and doing so, or not doing so, at a football game is meaningless.

Unless, of course, one is actually looking for reason to haul out the old RW fainting couch and collapsing on it in public.
 
To answer the question, it depends on what you mean by "left", because of you go to Russia or eastern europe, the 'conservatives' are actually communists, because they want to 'preserve' the communist/soviet system which ended up falling.

I think we're past the point of any kind of true "left wing" in the US, but rather, just what kind of right wing do we want to be? Do we want to be the typical US-right or a socialist-style right-wing, that has found its home on the American left?
 
This CNN bit must have been Monday but I just saw the clip today. Don Lemon actually asked Gladys Knight if she was concerned that singing the National Anthem at the Super Bowl would hurt her career!



To her credit, she handled the question quite well. I'd have probably asked him if he was out of his damned mind.

How did we EVER get to a point where American pride, respect for the principles of liberty and honoring the continual fight to preserve that liberty has become a potential threat?


I don't know much about her, but she was by far, the only good part of the Superbowl. Everything else was garbage.
 
American left is moderate right wing in the rest of the world..

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
Well, it's pretty simple. The right-wing half of the country has decided that patriotism is all about singing songs, wearing colors, and waving flags and not about actually upholding the fundamental principles that made our nation great. The number of disgusting idiots who extol racism, xenophobia, sexism, and all-out sheer ignorance while wrapping themselves up tightly in the flag has made decent human beings not want to be associated with them.

You just answered the OP's question...though probably not the way you wanted to.

Simply said, it's your attitude that supports Lemon's attitude.
 
Well, it's pretty simple. The right-wing half of the country has decided that patriotism is all about singing songs, wearing colors, and waving flags and not about actually upholding the fundamental principles that made our nation great. The number of disgusting idiots who extol racism, xenophobia, sexism, and all-out sheer ignorance while wrapping themselves up tightly in the flag has made decent human beings not want to be associated with them.

If you hate freedom then, in America, you are free to leave. You are not, however, going to be allowed to take away the freedoms that so many of us have fought to preserve.

Personally, I find it more than a little ironic that so many of you folks on the left cite right wing "hatred" as the justification for your own hatred of everyone you disagree with.
 
American left is moderate right wing in the rest of the world..

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk

Not all of us feel a need to act as if we're lemmings.
 
If you hate freedom then, in America, you are free to leave. You are not, however, going to be allowed to take away the freedoms that so many of us have fought to preserve.

Personally, I find it more than a little ironic that so many of you folks on the left cite right wing "hatred" as the justification for your own hatred of everyone you disagree with.

You just answered the OP's question...though probably not the way you wanted to.

Simply said, it's your attitude that supports Lemon's attitude.

His point was that to the right patriotism is measured purely by how many flag stickers you have on your truck, how often you loudly recite the pledge in public, if you agree with Rush Limbaugh and other highly superficial things.

In reality, being a patriot is loving and defending your nation's principles and actively working to improve it. It has nothing to do with the faux showmanship patriotism done by people who care more about being seen as a "patriot" without doing anything to make their country better.

It's no different from the people that think going to church on Sunday and quoting Bible verses at people makes you a good Christian. Patriotism isn't about chest beating and public showmanship. As long as you measure patriotism by how many anthems someone has stood for you will always be dead wrong.


Not all of us feel a need to act as if we're lemmings.

The irony of a Trump-bot saying this is just too hilarious.
 
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If you hate freedom then, in America, you are free to leave. You are not, however, going to be allowed to take away the freedoms that so many of us have fought to preserve.

Personally, I find it more than a little ironic that so many of you folks on the left cite right wing "hatred" as the justification for your own hatred of everyone you disagree with.

****ing classic from a conservative. God, you people have absolutely no shame at all, just will spew any dumb **** you can. Right wingers are complete scum

Why don't you get out. Hey, how about all you racist conservatives that can't stand what America is all about leave the country. Go move to a theocracy you want to instill in the US
 
How did we EVER get to a point where American pride, respect for the principles of liberty and honoring the continual fight to preserve that liberty has become a potential threat?

When we elected Donald Trump.
 
****ing classic from a conservative. God, you people have absolutely no shame at all, just will spew any dumb **** you can. Right wingers are complete scum

Why don't you get out. Hey, how about all you racist conservatives that can't stand what America is all about leave the country. Go move to a theocracy you want to instill in the US


Wingnuts, you can't live with them, you can't get rid of them.
The ultimate dilemma.
 
When we elected Donald Trump.



Bull****. It was a slide that was happening long before Trump. Bush and lapel flag pins and freedom fries. Obama’s derogatory comments about his opponents clinging to guns and religion.
 
Bull****. It was a slide that was happening long before Trump. Bush and lapel flag pins and freedom fries. Obama’s derogatory comments about his opponents clinging to guns and religion.

I agree, it started with Gingrich. Got out of control with the tea baggers and Fox.

Trump has ripped a divide unlike any other however.

No honest person would argue. No one is unaware.
 
The people that hate immigrants, hate minorities, hate other religions, hate liberals, hate gays, basically hate everybody not a white conservative christian, who seem to think constitutional rights only apply to them, telling other Americans they should get out if they don't like.

Classic, all they do is **** on the country constantly, whine, bitch, complain, denigrate the majority of Americans, claiming others should leave LOL. All while they think because they wear American flag clothing, and litter their car/house with flags, that somehow makes them really patriotic.

Just another example of what complete assholes many conservatives are
 
How did we EVER get to a point where American pride, respect for the principles of liberty and honoring the continual fight to preserve that liberty has become a potential threat?

It happened the moment we decided the whole thing was about making a political point, going so far as to use national pride as a wedge issue with the full intention to divide the nation along those lines. And honestly this is not new, the idea of national pride being a political wedge issue.

What "conservatives" need to quit pretending is that their brand of nationalism has the exclusive claim and definition on taking pride in one's nation. And we should also dispense with the rhetoric about the continual fight to preserve liberty, our liberty is being eroded with each passing President and Congress regardless of political party in charge to the point that protesting for freedom and better treatment means going up against the very institutions telling us to live with less liberty yet sing the national anthem to them as support.

Gladys Knight did handle Don Lemon's question quite well, which was rooted in two asinine ideas. That singing the national anthem means blind acceptance of all the things in this nation as they are and alignment with present government, or that kneeling for the national anthem means rejection of all things in this nation as they are.

You can have pride in one's nation, and sing the national anthem, without it being about accepting the point of view of political opposition. Calling this an "intellectual picket line" was using a wedge issue to make a bigger wedge about another issue.

At the same time, you can protest by kneeling during the national anthem and still have great love for one's nation. We have discussed in these forums before that very few were participating with or talking about Colin Kaepernick until we decided to inject so much politics into the issue everyone lost sight of why the protest started in the first place. Originally about police brutality, that should have been an issue gaining enough cross ideology support to address that issue. But hell no and in typical fashion, the politics of the national anthem moved the debate away from the reason. Trump, the media, Nike, and others did not do anything about the original issue but sure took the baton and ran with the wedge nature of what the debate became... all the while ignoring police brutality.

The ultimate conclusion is Gladys Knight did nothing wrong singing the national anthem and still has a place at the table of discussion, Colin Kaepernick also did nothing wrong in protesting the national anthem and also still has a place at the table of discussion.

Having Gladys Knight now be challenged on this shows how far off the rails the debate became. Conservative defined nationalism vs. a national anthem participation avoids the point in how we engage in issues we feel we should be discussing. That started with a protest about a real issue and ironically, is a showing of love for one's nation wanting to invoke discussion on that issue.

Colin Kaepernick may not have gone about this in a way you or I agree with, and Gladys Knight singing the national anthem may not settle well with people wanting a further wedge. But the issue remains, and it is wanting change for a nation's betterment.

The principles of our liberty includes protesting an injustice, that is showing love and respect for a nation where you can protest an injustice. Well... for now... until Trump convinces enough people that protesting the nation equates for not caring for a nation. And that brand of nationalism has historically proven conclusively to be a disaster.
 
His point was that to the right patriotism is measured purely by how many flag stickers you have on your truck, how often you loudly recite the pledge in public, if you agree with Rush Limbaugh and other highly superficial things.

In reality, being a patriot is loving and defending your nation's principles and actively working to improve it. It has nothing to do with the faux showmanship patriotism done by people who care more about being seen as a "patriot" without doing anything to make their country better.

It's no different from the people that think going to church on Sunday and quoting Bible verses at people makes you a good Christian. Patriotism isn't about chest beating and public showmanship. As long as you measure patriotism by how many anthems someone has stood for you will always be dead wrong.




The irony of a Trump-bot saying this is just too hilarious.

Out of curiosity, do you feel like there is a moral imperative to hate Trump and those who support him? What I mean is, do you think it's necessary to oppose anything that Trump and his supporters do because if you fail to do so they would gladly take away something (or everything) that you value? If so, what actions should be taken to insure that Trump and his supporters are removed from power and never get power again?
 
This CNN bit must have been Monday but I just saw the clip today. Don Lemon actually asked Gladys Knight if she was concerned that singing the National Anthem at the Super Bowl would hurt her career!



To her credit, she handled the question quite well. I'd have probably asked him if he was out of his damned mind.

How did we EVER get to a point where American pride, respect for the principles of liberty and honoring the continual fight to preserve that liberty has become a potential threat?
She should of asked him if he thought being a partisan hack masquerading as an objective commentator would hurt his career

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
This CNN bit must have been Monday but I just saw the clip today. Don Lemon actually asked Gladys Knight if she was concerned that singing the National Anthem at the Super Bowl would hurt her career!



To her credit, she handled the question quite well. I'd have probably asked him if he was out of his damned mind.

How did we EVER get to a point where American pride, respect for the principles of liberty and honoring the continual fight to preserve that liberty has become a potential threat?


The National Anthem should be America the Beautiful. Since when is asking a question deemed so un-American? Reminds me of the stuff my sister in laws dad likes to forward, "Those who hate America should leave" or some such crappola.
 
It happened the moment we decided the whole thing was about making a political point, going so far as to use national pride as a wedge issue with the full intention to divide the nation along those lines. And honestly this is not new, the idea of national pride being a political wedge issue.

What "conservatives" need to quit pretending is that their brand of nationalism has the exclusive claim and definition on taking pride in one's nation. And we should also dispense with the rhetoric about the continual fight to preserve liberty, our liberty is being eroded with each passing President and Congress regardless of political party in charge to the point that protesting for freedom and better treatment means going up against the very institutions telling us to live with less liberty yet sing the national anthem to them as support.

Gladys Knight did handle Don Lemon's question quite well, which was rooted in two asinine ideas. That singing the national anthem means blind acceptance of all the things in this nation as they are and alignment with present government, or that kneeling for the national anthem means rejection of all things in this nation as they are.

You can have pride in one's nation, and sing the national anthem, without it being about accepting the point of view of political opposition. Calling this an "intellectual picket line" was using a wedge issue to make a bigger wedge about another issue.

At the same time, you can protest by kneeling during the national anthem and still have great love for one's nation. We have discussed in these forums before that very few were participating with or talking about Colin Kaepernick until we decided to inject so much politics into the issue everyone lost sight of why the protest started in the first place. Originally about police brutality, that should have been an issue gaining enough cross ideology support to address that issue. But hell no and in typical fashion, the politics of the national anthem moved the debate away from the reason. Trump, the media, Nike, and others did not do anything about the original issue but sure took the baton and ran with the wedge nature of what the debate became... all the while ignoring police brutality.

The ultimate conclusion is Gladys Knight did nothing wrong singing the national anthem and still has a place at the table of discussion, Colin Kaepernick also did nothing wrong in protesting the national anthem and also still has a place at the table of discussion.

Having Gladys Knight now be challenged on this shows how far off the rails the debate became. Conservative defined nationalism vs. a national anthem participation avoids the point in how we engage in issues we feel we should be discussing. That started with a protest about a real issue and ironically, is a showing of love for one's nation wanting to invoke discussion on that issue.

Colin Kaepernick may not have gone about this in a way you or I agree with, and Gladys Knight singing the national anthem may not settle well with people wanting a further wedge. But the issue remains, and it is wanting change for a nation's betterment.

The principles of our liberty includes protesting an injustice, that is showing love and respect for a nation where you can protest an injustice. Well... for now... until Trump convinces enough people that protesting the nation equates for not caring for a nation. And that brand of nationalism has historically proven conclusively to be a disaster.

Are you really going to suggest that the Kaepernick kneel wasn't a political issue before Trump came along? The whole freaking point of doing it in the first place was political!
 
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