How much did Thailand, Indonesia etc send to us after 911?

[Pacridge]

Any idiot in Washington knew about Wilson's wife being in the CIA - the biggest "secret" there is she wasn't an undercover agent. Most don't shake hands with Bill Clinton at White House events. (Tape showed on Fox)

You said "Now that it's said and done have the people that tried to get the word out about the truth been rewarded?"
Bush is some evil mastermind, all this media blitz of "truth" for months and Bush's reward is almost 52% of the popular vote. I guess that means you're the only one grounded in reality and I have a lot of friends in my sandbox.

Wow, 52%! What a landslide! Never in modern history has anyone won by such a large number. Gosh, guess we should just cancel all future elections. I mean why even bother? When the GOP can pull off such a stunning victory, by such a huge percentage. A mandate for sure. Only Conservatives would look at 4% and call it a mandate. Well, they'd call it a mandate as long as they were on the positive number side, other wise they'd be screaming it was voter fraud or a rip-off and demanding a new election. Just like they're doing with the Governor's race in Washington state.

Yeah, it would be impossible for a President to meet with anyone acting as a CIA operative. In fact, the fact Clinton met with her proves she was already outed, that why there's still an on going investigating, right? Of course Fox doesn't air much coverage about that investigation, it doesn't involve oral sex or a stained dress. It must not be important to national security.

No, I am not the only one grounded in reality. I have company in my sandbox as well. About 48% of the country, by your numbers.

 

[Thor]

Ok, lets recap.

1) Was told there was WMD's. CONCLUSION: None. Bad day for the nation. (bad intelligence to cover up the "master plan"--speculation and unprovable).

2) Terrorist. CONCLUSION: No solid evidence. However, I remember them dancing in the streets when 9-11 happen the news footage of Saddam smiling and laughing. "Friend of my enemy"

3) U.N. Resolutions. CONCLUSION: Broken time after time for 10+ years.

4) Oppression of the Iraqi people. CONCLUSION: Without a doubt.

5) The Bush 'hidden agenda'. CONCLUSION: No proof. If there was, common sense would tell you that the Dems would be screaming "IMPEACH!!! IMPEACH!!!" The liberal media would headline it everyday. It's just not there except in the mind of anger internet surfers.

So, here is my question. If invading Iraq was brought to the American people under the banner of broken U.N. Resolutions and humanitarian efforts to librate the Iraqi people would it have been excepted?

 

[Pacridge]

dialysis machine? So now you're going with the intelligence you say is faulty. :naughty
I'm sorry I broke the news to you that we invaded Afghanistan before Iraq.
I never said that the job was finished, great come back though.

What does pointing out the fact that Osama is on dialysis have to do with the faulty Intel of regarding the WMD's?

I have a feeling you know good and well I was aware that we invaded Afghanistan before we invaded Iraq. My guess is rather than address the issue you thought it would be cute to post this back handed comment rather than address the issues or the facts.

 

[Batman]

Wow, 52%! What a landslide! Never in modern history has anyone won by such a large number. Gosh, guess we should just cancel all future elections. I mean why even bother? When the GOP can pull off such a stunning victory, by such a huge percentage. A mandate for sure. Only Conservatives would look at 4% and call it a mandate. Well, they'd call it a mandate as long as they were on the positive number side, other wise they'd be screaming it was voter fraud or a rip-off and demanding a new election. Just like they're doing with the Governor's race in Washington state.
No, I am not the only one grounded in reality. I have company in my sandbox as well. About 48% of the country, by your numbers.

Bill Clinton thought 43% was a mandate in 1992 and tried to take over the healthcare system with it. Then said he was what America approved of when he got 49% in 1996.
And don't forget the war Abe fought with his 39% popular vote mandate.

You're right, you're not the only one in your sandbox - but you're still a loser.
No trophies are awarded for second place in General Elections.

 

[Pacridge]

So, here is my question. If invading Iraq was brought to the American people under the banner of broken U.N. Resolutions and humanitarian efforts to librate the Iraqi people would it have been excepted?

I don't know. I don't think there's any way to know at this point. But I think that is a very valid question.

 

[Pacridge]

- but you're still a loser.

I was wondering exactly how long it would take you to sink to basic name calling.

 

[Batman]

What does pointing out the fact that Osama is on dialysis have to do with the faulty Intel of regarding the WMD's?.

Because it's coming from our government sources.

I have a feeling you know good and well I was aware that we invaded Afghanistan before we invaded Iraq. My guess is rather than address the issue you thought it would be cute to post this back handed comment rather than address the issues or the facts.

If you say so. You said Afghanistan was filled with terrorists - more so than Iraq. I simply said that's why we invaded Afghanistan first. I'm sure you knew that, though I'm puzzeled you used it as an example if you did.

 

[Batman]

I was wondering exactly how long it would take you to sink to basic name calling.

Cute. And now what I said in context:
You're right, you're not the only one in your sandbox - but you're still a loser.
No trophies are awarded for second place in General Elections.
I meant that about the outcome for Kerry voters and the election. But I have a feeling you know good and well that's what I meant.

 

[Thor]

Pacridge,

I don't mean to press for an answer but why can't you give one?

I mean, are those platforms not a valid reason? Everyone likes to play the "hind sight is 20/20" game. I mean, isn't that what we are doing everytime we debate the Iraq war. You know, WMD's and such. Come on, give it a guess.

 

[Pacridge]

Cute. And now what I said in context:
You're right, you're not the only one in your sandbox - but you're still a loser.
No trophies are awarded for second place in General Elections.
I meant that about the outcome for Kerry voters and the election. But I have a feeling you know good and well that's what I meant.

No, I honestly didn't take it as that. I took it to read that you were calling me a loser. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Pacridge]

Pacridge,

I don't mean to press for an answer but why can't you give one?

I mean, are those platforms not a valid reason? Everyone likes to play the "hind sight is 20/20" game. I mean, isn't that what we are doing everytime we debate the Iraq war. You know, WMD's and such. Come on, give it a guess.

I'm all for debating things without backhanded comments and without name calling. Though if you throw a barb in my direction, I'm likely to toss one back your way. I do try to stay away from name calling. But really I think they both take away from the logic and the debate.

That being said. I think you're trying to ask a reasonable question here. I'm just not sure I understand what it is you're asking. I understand, I think, what you're saying about the 20/20 hind sight issue. But the rest of your post has me a little confused. What exactly are you asking me to "give it a guess" on?

 

[Fried Rice]

First, the events of 9-11 happen on US soil and as such had a great direct impact on the citizens in the US. So the coverage was non-stop for a reason. Second, "loss of a relatively small number of Americans"? So what we didn't lose enough lives to make you happy with the amount of courage? That's an insulting comment. Third, I don't know how long you were in the US for after the tsunami or what networks you were viewing, but on my TV the tsunami was a covered a great deal. There was also a constant call to send donations to aid agencies such as the Red Cross. These calls for donations were non-stop and continue to today. They're on TV, in newspapers and on the radio all the time. In fact everytime I turn my computer on there's an Ad. on my home page reminding me that agencies still need help covering the cost of the tsunami relief effort. It comes complete with a link to donated more money to the effort.

Yes, 9-11 happened on USA soil, my point is the whole world was subjected to non-stop news / spin / debate / outrage and this continues to this day. As you are American i dont expect the English language to be your forte - please note my use of the word "relatively" - the comemnt is not meant as an insult or otherwise - its a statement of fact. You should perhaps question why you automatically assume this comment is in some way an attack on the USA.....

While i was in the USA, there was a telethon to collect funds - this was relegated to the cable networks and (as far as i could tell) was not carried by any major network. God forbid you all have to miss an episode of 'Desperate Housewives' or some other program. It is commendable that US citizens have contributed to the various funds and this can only be applauded. What a pity your Govt couldn't show such humility. I recall Powell giving US$50m as a sign of USA 'kindness' yet how many 100's of millions has the world had to spend to 'protect' us all after 9-11.

And dont go saying 9-11 was different to this - loss of life is still loss of life.

 

[Batman]

No, I honestly didn't take it as that. I took it to read that you were calling me a loser. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm sorry about the confusion. We don't agree but your still cool with me.

And speaking of cool. Congratulations on migrating from Greece to the U.S. Thor! Everyone knows the COOL Superheroes hang out in the good ole USA.

 

[Pacridge]

I'm sorry about the confusion. We don't agree but your still cool with me.

No worries, glad we were able to at least agree on not resorting to name calling. The whole point of being on a debate site is to hear other's view points and thoughts. If I only wanted to hear my side of the issues- I could just e-mail myself.

 

[Thor]

Alright. I'll simplify. My question is, do you think that public opinion would have be in favor of going to war with Iraq if the reasons were presented as the following:

1) Resistance/hindrance of U.N. Resolution being carried out.

2) Humanitarian efforts to liberate the Iraqi people.

No tricks or traps!! Just want your opinion or any viewers opinion. Give your personal opinion and then what you think would be the opinion of America as a whole.

 

[Thor]

Thanks Batman for the welcome!!!

I like hanging out in a nation with backbone. Europe is a little to sissy for me now a days. Only thing most of them are into is Oil and Food or was that Oil for Food. Anyway, glad to be here.

 

[Pacridge]

Thanks Batman for the welcome!!!

I like hanging out in a nation with backbone. Europe is a little to sissy for me now a days. Only thing most of them are into is Oil and Food or was that Oil for Food. Anyway, glad to be here.

Or is it oil in food?

 

[Pacridge]

Alright. I'll simplify. My question is, do you think that public opinion would have be in favor of going to war with Iraq if the reasons were presented as the following:

1) Resistance/hindrance of U.N. Resolution being carried out.

2) Humanitarian efforts to liberate the Iraqi people.

No tricks or traps!! Just want your opinion or any viewers opinion. Give your personal opinion and then what you think would be the opinion of America as a whole.

No, I don't think the majority of Americans would have been in favor of invading Iraq without the WMD or immediate threat reasoning. I believe several national polls were conducted at the time and the results were fairly conclusive.

That leads to the debate of why was the intel so wrong? Some say it's intentional mis-leading while other's will claim it's an honest mistake. To be honest, I don't know and I don't think there's any way for the average citizen to know. Personally, I find it difficult to believe Bush would intentionally mis-lead the country. My reasoning for that is he would have to know that eventually the facts would be known and it would become political suicide. For me it's just not possible to follow the logic that Bush is some master planner, but he failed to take into account what would happen when the WMD's weren't found. So, I don't necessarily buy into the the idea it was all part of some master plan. Rather I think it was a mistake. But it was a huge mistake.

Now that's not to say I don't think there shouldn't be accountability when mistakes of this magnitude occur. I'm deeply troubled by the lack of accountability and what appears to be a purging of those in the intel. community that made efforts to disclose problems with the evidence. Not to mention giving medals to those who made the mistakes. Bush and his administration have repeatedly taken this course when it comes to negative events. I think it's just like what they tried to do with the events of 9-11. He and his Admin. resisted any and all inquiries until the families of the victims basically forced the issue.

 

[anomaly]

One of you cons mentioned a 'humanitarian' effort as a motive to invade Iraq. Well, I know some of you cons don't like this, but it is possible to give humanitarian aid without using the military. What a shocker! Africa is currently in the worst state of health of all the continents. The AIDS epidemic is slowly devouring them. Bush could have given some money to African nations. Bush could have attempted to create peace in the Palestinian crisis. But he wisely decided to invade a country that might have been 'harboring' a single terrorist, and was absolutely no threat to the USA or any of her allies. I must admit, he is a great leader!! The humanitarian argument fails under such criticism, so what's your next excuse? There is no reason! Here's the only possible reason I could come up with. It was a war based on revenge: Saddam tried to get Bush Sr. assasinated. And when someone tries to assasinate your daddy, you're gonna be pretty ticked. But anyway, cons, amuse me and give me another reason for 'liberating' Iraq.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Fact: I was speaking about our country and our internal issues..

The topic in question was Saudi Arabia, obvious if you speak English, but if you want to generalize let's go.
Years ago I had an actress neighbour who overstayed her visa and was deported back to her homeland - the USA!
Europe is full of Americans here "teaching English" (most don't have any formal teaching qualifications, and far from perfect English), here illegally or on dodgy "student exchanges" (many of these "students" are in their fifties). They are a scourge and a drain on the EU. I agree: let's get rid of these illegals. We have enough legal Asian and African immigrants contributing something positive to our society.

Sexist *** ? - Some of my best friends are bigger Bimbos than you.

Now why does that not surprise me?

 

[Batman]

The topic in question was Saudi Arabia, obvious if you speak English, but if you want to generalize let's go.
Years ago I had an actress neighbour who overstayed her visa and was deported back to her homeland - the USA!
Europe is full of Americans here "teaching English" (most don't have any formal teaching qualifications, and far from perfect English), here illegally or on dodgy "student exchanges" (many of these "students" are in their fifties). They are a scourge and a drain on the EU. I agree: let's get rid of these illegals. We have enough legal Asian and African immigrants contributing something positive to our society.?

I don't know why people would want to be there in the first place 'teaching,' and it won't bother me a bit if you 'get rid' of them.

Sexist *** ? - Some of my best friends are bigger Bimbos than you. Now why does that not surprise me?

It's called having a sense of humor - obvious to anyone that has one.

 

[Pacridge]

While i was in the USA, there was a telethon to collect funds - this was relegated to the cable networks and (as far as i could tell) was not carried by any major network. God forbid you all have to miss an episode of 'Desperate Housewives' or some other program. It is commendable that US citizens have contributed to the various funds and this can only be applauded. What a pity your Govt couldn't show such humility. I recall Powell giving US$50m as a sign of USA 'kindness' yet how many 100's of millions has the world had to spend to 'protect' us all after 9-11.

Well, you're close. You're only off by about 900 million. Here's a link that will tell you that Bush has increased the amount of US from 350 million to 950 million. The 50 million number you're quoting was stated about 4 hours after the event and before anyone had any idea as to the extent of the disaster.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/02/10/news/tsunami.html

"WASHINGTON President George W. Bush has pledged almost to triple the U.S. contribution for countries devastated by the tsunami, bringing the total to nearly 950 million."

I find it ironic that you would mention "Desperate Housewives" The network, ABC, that airs that show did in fact do a two hour primetime special on the tsunami. While it wasn't a telethon they did start each segment and go to each break with a public service announcement letting people know where and how they could contribute funds to help the relief effort. The other two main US networks, NBC & CBS, also aired specials with the same type format requesting donations to relief agencies. So, telethons? No. Effective? Yes. According the Red Cross they collected $15,745,701.06 due to events such as these.

 

[Batman]

The most comforting part of Fried Rice's comment:
"While i was in the USA.."
meaning he no longer is.

 

[J Fuller]

Good point...I was reading on this other website: thePhalanx.com, which I mentioned in another thread, that some families are suing over teh tsunamis, and guess who one of the defedants is, yep the good ole US of A.

Go to www.thephalanx.com and find the articles for yesterday, its got some links there too.

 

[Pacridge]

Good point...I was reading on this other website: thePhalanx.com, which I mentioned in another thread, that some families are suing over teh tsunamis, and guess who one of the defedants is, yep the good ole US of A.

Go to www.thephalanx.com and find the articles for yesterday, its got some links there too.

What the heck is wrong with people? Something bad happens to you- SUE! Can't figure out who's to blame? Sue the person, company or government with the most cash.

I liked the article you linked:

"Families of tsunami victims file suit, no word yet whether God will appear in court"

Here's by thought- if God does indeed show up in court to testify on behalf of these losers- we pony up with the cash. Otherwise, no cash and we counter sue for legal and court cost.