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How much blame lies with the Russian people?

How much blame lies with the Russian people?


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Kreton

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I think this is an interesting question. How much blame lies with the Russian people?

On one hand, this is Putin's decision. I think that most Russians are not in favor of this invasion. Some have spoken out and even protested.

However on the other hand. They are doing nothing. The streets of Russia are relatively calm. Putin is not driving these tanks. Putin is not firing these guns. Putin is not policing these protests. If the Ukranian people can stand up and fight, so could the Russian people. There is no revolt there. At least not yet. Putin as a president still has the support of Russia even if they don't support the war.
 

Ginger Ale

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You'd think the Russian people have been totally mind ****ed by now. I mean, we all are in a sense. Look at what Trump and Tucker are saying publicly. But, yeah, it might take time to organize that in an oppressed population with a crazy as **** leader.
 

Helix

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I'd guess that it's mostly putin. I've been trying to find a good way to put this, and it's hard, because the Ukrainians are definitely the main victims here. However, I do feel bad for the average Russian who had basically nothing to do with this and is now ****ed financially. I say this because it's not difficult to imagine the tangerine tantrum getting power again and then doing something that significantly pisses off the whole world enough for them to **** up our currency. That would ruin a lot of us who didn't want him anywhere near the WH. It's probably a similar situation in Russia. Is there another non-military option? I don't see one. However, this just sucks for the average working Russian, and I recognize that.
 

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I'd guess that it's mostly putin. I've been trying to find a good way to put this, and it's hard, because the Ukrainians are definitely the main victims here. However, I do feel bad for the average Russian who had basically nothing to do with this and is now ****ed financially. I say this because it's not difficult to imagine the tangerine tantrum getting power again and then doing something that significantly pisses off the whole world enough for them to **** up our currency. That would ruin a lot of us who didn't want him anywhere near the WH. It's probably a similar situation in Russia. Is there another non-military option? I don't see one. However, this just sucks for the average working Russian, and I recognize that.

To be fair - I'd like to think that Americans would have done something more by now if a politican "Putin"ed us to this level. Hell, we damn near had a revolt over wearing a mask. People lose their mind when gas goes up $0.50. Being financially crushed so a dictator can murder people would never hold up.

Also - I see everyday Russians choosing to stand by Putin, even if denouncing the war itself. Russian people could end this.
 

rickc

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Do you believe the Russian people elected Putin in a free and fair election?

It is always power mad leaders that create the problems

The majority of the people around the world just want a decent life for themselves and their family.
 

craig

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All of it. The people of a country are absolutely responsible for what their government does.
 
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I think this is an interesting question. How much blame lies with the Russian people?

On one hand, this is Putin's decision. I think that most Russians are not in favor of this invasion. Some have spoken out and even protested.

However on the other hand. They are doing nothing. The streets of Russia are relatively calm. Putin is not driving these tanks. Putin is not firing these guns. Putin is not policing these protests. If the Ukranian people can stand up and fight, so could the Russian people. There is no revolt there. At least not yet. Putin as a president still has the support of Russia even if they don't support the war.

they keep allowing themselves to be ruled by authoritarian douches. But then again, even in this country we have people who believe in propaganda to let the oligarchs have all the power and money and they cheer them on, so you can see how it is possible. And even worse there, people can be killed or jailed for dare questioning Putin.
 

Cardinal

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I think this is an interesting question. How much blame lies with the Russian people?

On one hand, this is Putin's decision. I think that most Russians are not in favor of this invasion. Some have spoken out and even protested.

However on the other hand. They are doing nothing. The streets of Russia are relatively calm. Putin is not driving these tanks. Putin is not firing these guns. Putin is not policing these protests. If the Ukranian people can stand up and fight, so could the Russian people. There is no revolt there. At least not yet. Putin as a president still has the support of Russia even if they don't support the war.
It's difficult to assign blame to a people that's completely dominated by an authoritarian government. I'm not saying they're totally blameless, but you can't assign blame as you would to citizens of a democratic country.
 

craig

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It's difficult to assign blame to a people that's completely dominated by an authoritarian government. I'm not saying they're totally blameless, but you can't assign blame as you would to citizens of a democratic country.
They are responsible for not being a democratic country.
 

Helix

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To be fair - I'd like to think that Americans would have done something more by now if a politican "Putin"ed us to this level. Hell, we damn near had a revolt over wearing a mask. People lose their mind when gas goes up $0.50. Being financially crushed so a dictator can murder people would never hold up.

Also - I see everyday Russians choosing to stand by Putin, even if denouncing the war itself. Russian people could end this.
Maybe. However, if we had a dictator who straight up murders his political enemies and jails his critics, I don't think I'd risk my family. It seems likely to me that a lot of average people are in that boat. I'm just trying to imagine myself in those shoes and ask myself how brave I'd actually be.
 

Cardinal

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Other: All of it.

I don't get this kind of thinking. Russia isn't a country with free speech or free and fair elections. They don't have agency in the same way we do. And even that aside, you're currently seeing illegal protests across the country. Do they bear all of the blame?
 

jaypatriot

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I think this is an interesting question. How much blame lies with the Russian people?

On one hand, this is Putin's decision. I think that most Russians are not in favor of this invasion. Some have spoken out and even protested.

However on the other hand. They are doing nothing. The streets of Russia are relatively calm. Putin is not driving these tanks. Putin is not firing these guns. Putin is not policing these protests. If the Ukranian people can stand up and fight, so could the Russian people. There is no revolt there. At least not yet. Putin as a president still has the support of Russia even if they don't support the war.
Russians have always lived under a powerful, autocratic leader. Just like the Chinese. It's almost like they expect to be kept in the dark like mushrooms and to be told what to do by a dictator. They allow autocrats and oligarchs to take over and run the country because they do not know any better. And any Russian who opposes that way of thinking knows what happens to them.
And, yes, the people (in general) love Putin because he stands up to the West and has convinced them the West is out to attack, invade, and destroy Russia.
How else could he change the constitution and remain president until 2036?
 

Tlrmln

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I don't get this kind of thinking. Russia isn't a country with free speech or free and fair elections. They don't have agency in the same way we do. And even that aside, you're currently seeing illegal protests across the country. Do they bear all of the blame?

1. I didn't say that every single Russian person is responsible. The question was about the "Russian people" as a whole. The problem is that not nearly enough of them are protesting, or doing even more to resist.

2. Putin is one of the Russian people. The soldiers attacking Ukraine are Russian people. The police arresting protesters are Russian people. The millions of citizens who have a duty to stop their leader from making an unprovoked attack on the Ukrainian people are Russian people.

It would be one thing to sit there and allow themselves to be oppressed by a vile tyrant like Putin if they were also minding their own business. But when they are attacking another nation, the responsibility falls on the people as a whole. They can either stop it or own it. Probably the only way to put a stop to this utter madness without dramatically increasing the threat to the rest of the world is for it to be stopped from within.
 

Ren

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I think this is an interesting question. How much blame lies with the Russian people?

On one hand, this is Putin's decision. I think that most Russians are not in favor of this invasion. Some have spoken out and even protested.

However on the other hand. They are doing nothing. The streets of Russia are relatively calm. Putin is not driving these tanks. Putin is not firing these guns. Putin is not policing these protests. If the Ukranian people can stand up and fight, so could the Russian people. There is no revolt there. At least not yet. Putin as a president still has the support of Russia even if they don't support the war.
None. They're just trying to live their lives, like most normal people.
 

Hamish Howl

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A little. If you tolerate a tyrant, you often find yourself in this sort of mess.

Not much, though, in this case.
 

Credence

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I blame Putin. Unfortunately those that speak up against him will be jailed and now there has been a new law established that would give 15 years of prison to speak up against Putin and/or the military.

I voted a lot in error. Had a brain fart and Putin on my mind. So deduct one vote there and it should have been none
 

Kreton

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I blame Putin. Unfortunately those that speak up against him will be jailed and now there has been a new law established that would give 15 years of prison to speak up against Putin and/or the military.

I voted a lot in error. Had a brain fart and Putin on my mind. So deduct one vote there and it should have been none

Not super important but you can just change your vote.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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I think this is an interesting question. How much blame lies with the Russian people?

On one hand, this is Putin's decision. I think that most Russians are not in favor of this invasion. Some have spoken out and even protested.

However on the other hand. They are doing nothing. The streets of Russia are relatively calm. Putin is not driving these tanks. Putin is not firing these guns. Putin is not policing these protests. If the Ukranian people can stand up and fight, so could the Russian people. There is no revolt there. At least not yet. Putin as a president still has the support of Russia even if they don't support the war.


How much blame should people take for the actions of the government in general?

Should people in democracies take more blame as they can control the government, while dictatorships people can not?
 

Credence

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Not super important but you can just change your vote.
OK. I did not realize I could change it. Most polls don't allow it. Thanks 🤝

ETA: done
 

Kreton

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None. They're just trying to live their lives, like most normal people.

So you don't think that they enable Putin to remain in power? A lot of these people have friends and relatives in the Ukraine being slaughtered. They are part of the country that is destabilizing the world. They could stand with Ukraine.
 

rickc

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So you don't think that they enable Putin to remain in power? A lot of these people have friends and relatives in the Ukraine being slaughtered. They are part of the country that is destabilizing the world. They could stand with Ukraine.

They are. And Putin is locking them up. Russian jails aren't like the ones here.

More than 2,000 arrested at anti-war protests in Russia​

Rights watchdog says more than 5,000 demonstrators detained across the country since President Putin launched the war on Ukraine.

202202eca_russia_demonstrators.jpeg
 

Cardinal

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A little. If you tolerate a tyrant, you often find yourself in this sort of mess.

Not much, though, in this case.
Yeah, Russia flipped through democracy quicker than I scroll through Netflix.
 

Ishm

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The ultimate blame always lies with the people. You only have to look at how close the US got to breaking it's own democracy with DT to realise that someone riding a wave of false patriotism and populist ideologies can drag enough people along to elect a Putin style autocrat. Just one step further and you have a president Xi scenario where you suddenly have him installed for life and virtually unlimited power. Putin has done it..Xi has done it. Kim has done it. All the people that DT said he so admired. DT coming so close shows you how easy it could be in countries with weaker democracies.
 

Kreton

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They are. And Putin is locking them up. Russian jails aren't like the ones here.

More than 2,000 arrested at anti-war protests in Russia​

Rights watchdog says more than 5,000 demonstrators detained across the country since President Putin launched the war on Ukraine.

View attachment 67378186
5000 out of 144,000,000 doesn't impress me.
 
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