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How many more mass shootings will americans stand for before the victims start forcing gun restrictions on gun owners?

bongsaway

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The question has to be asked, does your right to bear arms override my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

People are getting really fed up with nothing happening except more shootings and killings. This cannot keep happening in a so called civilized society.
 
All of them. All the shootings.
 
This cannot keep happening in a so called civilized society.
But this is not a "civilized society."

Look at what happened in Chicago last weekend.

While there will be some gun restrictions in the coming years, most Americans will insist on keeping most of the current gun laws. And as Prohibition and drug laws prove, if people want something bad enough, government cannot stop it.
 
The thread title and the OP are fundamentally stupid. Mass shooting matter more than other shootings, only in the media.

We don't have to "put up" with them. The family and friends of the victims do. You and I, media consumers ARE NOT THE VICTIMS.

Gun control should be motivated by reducing murder and maiming. ALL of it, including gangsters and bad boyfriends, and paranoid people, and little kids playing with daddy's toy, and depressed people who might live if they just had to leave the house to procure the means of suicide.

ALL victims of guns have to be our concern. If we're just concerned with mass shootings, we deserve to be dismissed as media puppets.
 
We have a high tolerance for blood in the us
 
We're probably not close for years or longer to much being done. They might pass some low-hanging fruit like background checks and red flag laws and something on 'assault guns'.
 
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin

In other words, instead of restricting liberty, find and deal with the cause of the threat to your safety.

Guns are not the cause. They are the tool.
 

That famous quote was over a tax dispute with the Penn family.
 

So free for all? Machine guns, sawed off shotguns, bombs, anything goes sounds like fun!!!

Bombs are not the cause, they are the tool, and I should have the liberty to own one.
 
While there will be some gun restrictions in the coming years, most Americans will insist on keeping most of the current gun laws. And as Prohibition and drug laws prove, if people want something bad enough, government cannot stop it.

I'm glad you accept that there will be new gun laws. Though the trend currently is towards less.

And I really wish the analogy between guns and drugs was sound. Because I see a bright future for drug laws, in which people who have a problem with drugs are quickly and cheaply diverted to treatment programs.

But it's not a sound analogy. The victims of drugs are drug users themselves. We just need services available (and even pushed somewhat) for them to flip over to seeing their addiction as a problem. Guns are somewhat like this, in the aspect of suicide, but suicide is a far more advanced state of poor judgement, than being stoned on a Monday and losing ones job. Catching suicides is harder harder than catching people who know they have a drug problem. And then there's the far more morally troubling problem of murder. Murderers are immensely more irresponsible than drug addicts. How does the law catch a potential murderer, when the causes aren't just "has a gun" but also their first love divorced them and went with someone else? Or the guy who bullied them in school, joined a rival gang? Or they respond really badly to white guys staring them down?

The causes of murder are varied, and almost always irrational. We lack the universal psychological insight to know who is going to murder who. I mean, it's convenient to say that every murderer is de facto insane: it IS insane to take such a risk with one's own freedom. But we can't know in advance. The cross-section of potential murderers we would have to give fortnightly psych appointments to, is far to wide for our resources, and furthermore they would not co-operate because only people who know they have a problem, and actively want help, co-operate with psychiatrists or psychologists.

We must do more in getting psych services to those who are willing. But let's not pretend it's the silver bullet. No one thing is going to solve the massive problem of potentially dangerous people already having a gun, when they decide to do something stupid.

Gun control isn't the silver bullet either. If tests and licensing put a dent in the "right of passage to adulthood" culture of gun ownership though, fewer young men would buy a gun "just in case" and fewer bad cases would occur. Gangsters aside, there are a wide class of murderers who are opportunistic, they make an irrational choice based on emotion. If they didn't already have a gun, but had to go through formalities to get it, it might make them think twice.

Of course, to our gun rights members, this will seem like "infringing." Yes, I guess it is. But they largely accept the infringement of background checks, they agree with keeping guns out of the hands of convicted criminals. It's not such a big step to also keep guns out of the hands of people who are prone to later become criminals. Those people are making the truly law-abiding gun owners, look bad.
 
I would opine too many people viewing this in the opposite direction.

The only way to deal with gun violence is to have EVERYONE armed.

Not saying I concur with this “reasoning” but surmise others would…
 
So free for all? Machine guns, sawed off shotguns, bombs, anything goes sounds like fun!!!

Bombs are not the cause, they are the tool, and I should have the liberty to own one.
Hyperbole is not a valid debate tactic.

Bombs and machine guns are not arms.

If you fear a "free for all", then you should work to end the mind set that makes the free for all the desired result. Guns do not create a mind set. The mind set uses guns. (guns are the tool)
 
Guns are not the cause. They are the tool.

They're the tool of bad people, not just good people.

It's a careless workman who leaves his tools lying around for fools to use. I've heard it all before, "criminals will always be able to get guns" but it comes down to criminals can steal them from law-abiding gun owners (because they made some stupid assumption about their car or house being safe), or criminals can BUY them from law-abiding gun owners.

The first one is hard to solve. Even if you have an alarm and a gun safe, and never leave weapons in your car, there will always be a smart criminal attracted to your valuable guns. If you want to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem, leave a minimum of weapons (maybe one rifle) at home, and carry your pistol with you. Or if you don't give a damn about criminals getting guns, build a collection of 50 guns and leave them in your house.

The second one is easy to solve. Track all guns from the point of original sale, using licensing. Require background checks for all sales. And PROSECUTE anyone who sells guns to a criminal. Currently they're "law abiding" because they did not know for certain that the buyer was a prohibited person. To hell with that. And to jail with them.
 

The mind set is a cultural thing, based largely on the 2nd Amendment. Telling people they have a right, actually inclines them to exercise it.

Reducing the number of Americans who have guns, would reduce the amount of gun violence, surely? Even without making assumptions about some people being law abiding and others not, because plenty of murderers have no previous criminal record. I'm not asking you to approve the disarmament of people who have a court order against them. Just broadly: if fewer people had guns, then there would be less gun violence. Yes or no?
 


It's being done at the state level at least in blue states.

My state just passed a sweeping gun safety law that includes many good regulations:

 

You really think anything is going to significantly change anytime soon?

This will keep happening as there is political motivation for it to continue, which is an awfully sad statement but factual.
 
The 20,000 plus gun murders each year dwarfs the amount of kids who die in school shootings and/or people who die in mass shootings. The amount of people killed every day in shootings on our cities seems to matter little to those on the left. Not sensational enough, apparently.
 
No argument from me.
For example, see the story I posted in my 'idiots with guns' thread. Guy saw racial justice protest, came out with gun, shot 5 women, until a bystander shot and wounded him. Guns worked to stop him shooting more. But him having a gun led to 5 women shot before he was shot. That's a 'success' of lots of guns.
 
If everyone is armed, then mass shootings will be more easily stopped once they start, but we'll have a lot more shootings.

And particularly more suicides.
 

If you actually want a new thread every half hour, just say so.
 
Why did you leave out towns and rural areas? Or domestic shootings? Or right controlled areas/states?

Those don't count?
 
A greater positive impact would be focusing on high crime areas, straw purchasers, people failing the background check, stopping the revolving door at the local DA’s office and reversing the idiotic “defund the police” nonsense.
 
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