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How Many Abortions Does "God" Perform????

Let's suppose you're correct. God also says he flooded the earth and only keep 1 guy(and his family) alive. You think then, that it's allowed to kill people? Maybe you believe this, but I don't.

This is truly a stupid thread. You don't believe God exists to begin with, and then you want to claim what god is or isn't responsible for. At least do the studies necessary about man's nature, and the nature of god, before making such claims. Even a child knows that God has his realm of responsibility, and we have ours. And one of our responsibilities is not to kill people, While God's responsibilities is to decide who gets to be created, and who doesn't.

A child has no inkling of any god, other than its parents. Children have to be taught to believe in god. It's the religious people who make this kind of argument senseless. The god believers can't claim on one hand that god does everything and then on the other hand put out a disclaimer that god doesn't do bad things only humans and the devil do. Even with evil deeds you guys let man slide and blame the devil. The whole religion thing is just not for me.
 
1) and if there is no god ?
Then we're getting off topic from the post, because you already god exists when you say he aborts. So, back to your flawed argument now
2) abortion is not murder
It's murder and it's our responsibility to you know...not murder. God, he is called creator and judge. Having someone killed is not murder to him.
 
Precisely why using "god" to formulate and enforce laws is not the logical path to take.

What is logical about granting dependent humans any other Constitutional rights? If the right to life contains a caveat exempting a parent from ordering a hit then why does that exemption cease at birth? One could make a much more informed decision about the worth (value?) of their dependent offspring by age 5 or even 17.
 
But if hurricanes and forest fires are god's way of punishing sinners, get my drift?

Its just one of the many contradictions that plague religion. Those that on one hand claim "free will" as the excuse for it not being God's fault as to why the world is so violent, painful, and brutal at times, but then they claim god performs miracles. So where is free will there. Equally as ridiculous is the scenario people bring up, 1000s die, one person survives, oh, thank you god for saving that one person.

And the also like the "free will" argument to excuse man made actions, and OK, fine, but natural disasters, genetic mutations, deadly microorganisms has nothing to do with free will of man. Why did god make such a violent planet, and universe, in which in order to survive one organism has to eat another (or even worse, watch animal planet). Pretty poor designer than
 
A child has no inkling of any god, other than its parents. Children have to be taught to believe in god. It's the religious people who make this kind of argument senseless. The god believers can't claim on one hand that god does everything and then on the other hand put out a disclaimer that god doesn't do bad things only humans and the devil do. Even with evil deeds you guys let man slide and blame the devil. The whole religion thing is just not for me.

Ok well, you need to tell that to dragonfly, because he is saying the god exists, and that he aborts children. I don't have a problem with your argument because your argument assumes God doesn't exists. Fine. That defeats dragonfly's argument, but not in the way I would do it. Like him, I too agree that God exists. I just don't agree that it follows that man is allowed to abort. God has stirred war between nations and killed lots of people in history, I believe. That doesn't permit us to murder others either religiously or otherwise, in fact, God is clear that murder is forbidden.
 
But if hurricanes and forest fires are god's way of punishing sinners, get my drift?

ummm no? What do you mean 'if'? I don't believe that. I'm sure you can take Pat Robert's words and run with them, but I'm not Pat Roberts. I'm the one criticizing this argument, not Pat Roberts. Take that up with his personal philosophy if you want to play the cutesy "oh, you're a hypocrite game". My philosophy is hurricanes/fires/natural phenomena are not entirely for punishing sinners. I'm sure they CAN be used for such purposes, as in the biblical flood. But just like the plagues of egypt, sometimes these natural phenomenon are for protecting certain populations, as opposed to punishing sinners, as well as many other reasons.

Maybe your 'drift' holds water with robertson, but not with me.
 
Does your life suck this bad to be on a internet chat room ranting about how miscarriages happen?

DP isn't a 'chat room' - although it seems that many here use it as such. It's a forum for debate using facts into.

I am not pro-abortion per-se, yet I am most definitely an advocate for women's rights. Women should have the right to decide what happens to their body, their lives and their futures. That right should be guaranteed under the law and never threatened by bible-carrying conservatives who use quotes from the scripture of their choice as their argument.

Russia has made headlines in the news many times for violations of human rights, particularly those of children. In Russia, when a baby is born with a birth defect or mental handicap they're literally abandoned by their mothers and handed over to the state where they're put into multi-cribbed rooms and often physically restrained and left in their own feces and urine for hours at a time. Then there's other countries where the birth rate is exploding despite not having enough food to feed this children so they waste away and die of starvation. If people aren't aware of this yet, dying of starvation is one of the most painful deaths anyone can suffer.

My point is, there is no God whether it be Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist that would intentionally create children that are missing arms or legs, have severe mental handicaps and other ailments just to let 'creation' come to fruition naturally. No god is that cruel, no god wants children to suffer, no god wants to create children that have no home, no mother, abandoned and left for the state to care for. If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, I do. I worked for my State Dept. of Mental Retardation when there was such a thing. They have changed the name of the department to be more politically correct. 'Dept of Development Services', but it's the same thing. I've worked with these kids, I've been attacked, bitten, hit and burned by young adults with development and emotional disabilities. I will always persist in my belief that abortion is the mother's choice. Sometime it's only her, alone with no family to give her any help that is left with a child that will alter the course of her entire life.

It's easy to sit at a computer and judge others from above it all, it's quite a different matter when personally faced with these choices. We have to put our feet into the shoes of others in order to be fair to them.

There's one more phenomena in Russia that nobody talks about. It's Russia's 'invisible children, those that have been abandoned and living on the streets in gangs or alone.

https://imrussia.org/en/nation/245-besprizorniki

besprizorniki-pic-3.jpg


"Some even point out that child homelessness rates are the indicator of the level of national degeneration."
 
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ummm no? What do you mean 'if'? I don't believe that. I'm sure you can take Pat Robert's words and run with them, but I'm not Pat Roberts. I'm the one criticizing this argument, not Pat Roberts. Take that up with his personal philosophy if you want to play the cutesy "oh, you're a hypocrite game". My philosophy is hurricanes/fires/natural phenomena are not entirely for punishing sinners. I'm sure they CAN be used for such purposes, as in the biblical flood. But just like the plagues of egypt, sometimes these natural phenomenon are for protecting certain populations, as opposed to punishing sinners, as well as many other reasons.

Maybe your 'drift' holds water with robertson, but not with me.

"not entirely punishing sinner" so you essentially believe there is truth in what Robertson says?

Then I say your god is a complete assholes. Shows absolutely no evidence of existence, only sent his message to a small part of the world (if you believe in Christianity) and then will punish people with natural disasters for the sins that are just a product of our biology that god supposedly created? Punsih people for not believing foreign invaders who come in and kill, rape and pillage and then tell them they have to be christians. Christianity was largely spread around the world, through force.Oh, and spread by the word of men, corrupt men.

So, because people use their supposedly god given intelligence, logic and reasoning, god will punish sinners ("partly) with natural disasters, without providing any proof.

I mean, what kind of a screw up is god anyway?
 
That's what the "god people" say. Yes.

Sounds like a lot of god supported incest too doesn't it? How else would the world get repopulated?


So the bottom line is that if you believe in god, you believe god is just fine and dandy with killing lots and lots of people.
And fetuses.

Good grief...lol...just saw the timestamp on these posts. These are your wakeup thoughts? You ought to go to church... ;) :lol:

God has certainly been "just fine and dandy" with killing lots and lots of people. In fact, God has a 100% kill rate among all his creations - he kills us all, eventually. :)
 
"not entirely punishing sinner" so you essentially believe there is truth in what Robertson says?
Well, you know, we know of one catastrophe that did such a thing, and it was the flood. So yes, there is some truth, but it's not the entire truth, and today, it's not like anyone knows. If it rains, and floods, and kills someone. One could say the rain was to avenge sin. However, if the rain led to a good harvest, we might say God brought the rain for the farmers to benefit, and the guy dying was because he was suicidal and WANTED to drown to death. Not to do with avenging sin, he was just insane. Who knows? We have no moses's in this generation.

Then I say your god is a complete assholes. Shows absolutely no evidence of existence, only sent his message to a small part of the world (if you believe in Christianity) and then will punish people with natural disasters for the sins that are just a product of our biology that god supposedly created? Punsih people for not believing foreign invaders who come in and kill, rape and pillage and then tell them they have to be christians. Christianity was largely spread around the world, through force.Oh, and spread by the word of men, corrupt men.

So, because people use their supposedly god given intelligence, logic and reasoning, god will punish sinners ("partly) with natural disasters, without providing any proof.

I mean, what kind of a screw up is god anyway?
I don't believe in Christianity, but okay. Technically, my religion would be judaism, since my mother is jewish and I've formally come to reject the new testament.

My God is an asshole, and yet, if some guy laid with your wife/partner, you'd be pissed as **** at them. God, in his justice, considers that sin to be worthy of death, and the person that violated your wife would either have to apologize to you and make amends, or face punishment either in this world or the next. God isn't the asshole. People are the assholes. That's why we have to have these rules.
 
The vast majority of miscarriages occur in the first trimester. About 50 percent of all first trimester miscarriages are because of chromosomal abnormalities. This can occur more frequently in women who are considered advanced maternal age, or greater than 35 years old at pregnancy term. The chromosomal abnormalities would create very damaged babies. God is merciful to the parents.

Some miscarriages occur later. Most of these are due to infections. Uterus or cervix infections can be dangerous to a developing baby and lead to miscarriage. Other infections that may pass to the baby or placenta can also affect a developing pregnancy and may lead to loss.

Some of these infections include:

listeria
parvovirus B19
toxoplasma gondii
rubella
herpes simplex
cytomegalovirus

If a woman’s uterus didn’t form correctly when she was developing, it may be unable to support a healthy pregnancy.

There are also clotting disorders. Clotting disorders are conditions that cause your body to form more blood clots than normal. Examples include lupus anticoagulant and antiphospholipid syndrome.

In the case of pregnancy, blood clots can form in the placenta. This prevents nutrition and oxygen from getting to the baby-to-be, and prevents waste from being carried away.

Very few if any cases have been attributed to divine intervention, by science investigation.

In terms of abortion, none of these physiological factors need apply. Even healthy babies forming inside clean and healthy mothers are game to abortion all the way to birth in some states. That is definitely not the work of God, but humans trying to play god; divine right of the king; big government, to kill.

For some strange reason, your post got glossed right over...let's bring it to the forefront again...maybe the OP will read it this time...probably not...:2razz:
 
Ok well, you need to tell that to dragonfly, because he is saying the god exists, and that he aborts children. I don't have a problem with your argument because your argument assumes God doesn't exists. Fine. That defeats dragonfly's argument, but not in the way I would do it. Like him, I too agree that God exists. I just don't agree that it follows that man is allowed to abort. God has stirred war between nations and killed lots of people in history, I believe. That doesn't permit us to murder others either religiously or otherwise, in fact, God is clear that murder is forbidden.

Doesn't sound to me like he believes god exists. I think he is questioning why people who believe in a god, who is behind everything, then must also agree miscarriage is that god's form of abortion.

I do not understand your responses. You claim to believe in a god and then go as far as to say he, she or it has stirred wars and caused lots of deaths? So god caused lots of deaths through man going to war with each other and millions have been killed and that's ok but aborting a fetus is not. Pat Robertson? Another bullcrap tv preacher getting himself rich on people's fears and needs. Another scam artist. So you don't believe him but there are plenty of other tv 'ministers' to listen to and agree with.

Believe what you wish, what I will tell you. You will never, ever make me an atheist believe after being raised catholic and attending catholic school for years, that any god exists.
 
Because this:

If people are going to use "god" as the reason why abortion should be illegal, they should own up to the fact that "god" aborts with very high regularity.

Pretty simple.

So tell me, since you're a believer, does god terminate pregnancies?

Not all of those who are pro-life are people of faith: https://religioninpublic.blog/2019/01/23/are-there-pro-life-atheists-or-pro-life-liberals/

https://www.americamagazine.org/pol...ts-case-against-abortion-respect-human-rights
 
Miscarriage. "God's" abortion.
Happens quite often.

https://www.verywellfamily.com/when-do-most-miscarriages-occur-2371739



"God" aborts 30-40% of all pregnancies.

I assume though that god is allowed to "kill babies" like that because "he" works in mysterious ways? :roll:

God is incapable of abortion. God is also incapable of murder.

Under the generally accepted Christian view: God is the source of all life, therefore God is NOT acting immorally when he decides to "take away life". It is his to give, and his to take away. Life belongs to God.
 
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Doesn't sound to me like he believes god exists. I think he is questioning why people who believe in a god, who is behind everything, then must also agree miscarriage is that god's form of abortion.
And I would also agree there. My posts, therefore should be logical to you. I've shown that his reasoning for this nonsensical view of god and abortion simply does not follow.

My point is, what's permissible for God, is not necessarily permissible for humans. Anyone who reads the bible would come to this conclusion. How, then, does he say that man is permitted to kill the unborn? We're not permitted, God is quite clear on this. Death and life is left up for him to decide, not for us. That's why, as the country debates about the death penalty, it is irresponsible to continue with it when there are so many that are proven innocent posthumously.

Death and life is a serious thing man, and humans shouldn't mess with it willy nilly. Death is something for God to decide. If he is merciful, he will give people life, if he rules with justice, he will call people's souls to account. It's not something we should have decision over, at least not lightly.

I do not understand your responses. You claim to believe in a god and then go as far as to say he, she or it has stirred wars and caused lots of deaths? So god caused lots of deaths through man going to war with each other and millions have been killed and that's ok but aborting a fetus is not. Pat Robertson? Another bullcrap tv preacher getting himself rich on people's fears and needs. Another scam artist. So you don't believe him but there are plenty of other tv 'ministers' to listen to and agree with.

Believe what you wish, what I will tell you. You will never, ever make me an atheist believe after being raised catholic and attending catholic school for years, that any god exists.
[/quote]

God takes it upon himself, as the ultimate creator and judge to create and destroy life as he pleases. When a star ripes apart in a supernova, do we say that God was mean to the star? No. He only acted as creator and judge. Likewise, with humans, we are his creation. Therefore, him destroying life is no less a 'mean' action than creating life to begin with. There is no 'evil force' that competes with god. Everything he does is justice. What we call 'good' or 'evil' don't really exist, but are just subjective constructs that describes God's attributes. He creates and destroys life and rules with both justice and mercy. It was put succinctly "everything is under heaven's domain, except fear of heaven". Meaning, humans, being a created in the likeness of God, get to decide whether we act in accordance with God's rules, or not.

The catholic idea of god, I find, to be inferior. They look at him as if he's some guy with a beard in the sky. The bible is quite clear on this matter though. God is not a man that he should lie. He transcends all creation, and the only reason he's called 'he' is to refer to the masculine forces he created. He's not a being that can be pictured in any sense. He's no human being, or any finite image that can be represented on earth.

but the idea, that there is no force opposite, is hard thing for people to grasp because don't often think that god can act justly, or that acting justly can involve rebuke of persons or people. Worse yet, that the knower of all, knowing what sins we do, would rebuke us heavily and take our souls back to him, to call for an account. We never think of that, but that is the case.
 
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It's murder and it's our responsibility to you know...not murder. God, he is called creator and judge. Having someone killed is not murder to him.

Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person by a person. Even IF the zef were a person, if abortion is legal, it CANNOT be murder.
 
DP isn't a 'chat room' - although it seems that many here use it as such. It's a forum for debate using facts into.

I am not pro-abortion per-se, yet I am most definitely an advocate for women's rights. Women should have the right to decide what happens to their body, their lives and their futures. That right should be guaranteed under the law and never threatened by bible-carrying conservatives who use quotes from the scripture of their choice as their argument.

Russia has made headlines in the news many times for violations of human rights, particularly those of children. In Russia, when a baby is born with a birth defect or mental handicap they're literally abandoned by their mothers and handed over to the state where they're put into multi-cribbed rooms and often physically restrained and left in their own feces and urine for hours at a time. Then there's other countries where the birth rate is exploding despite not having enough food to feed this children so they waste away and die of starvation. If people aren't aware of this yet, dying of starvation is one of the most painful deaths anyone can suffer.

My point is, there is no God whether it be Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist that would intentionally create children that are missing arms or legs, have severe mental handicaps and other ailments just to let 'creation' come to fruition naturally. No god is that cruel, no god wants children to suffer, no god wants to create children that have no home, no mother, abandoned and left for the state to care for. If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, I do. I worked for my State Dept. of Mental Retardation when there was such a thing. They have changed the name of the department to be more politically correct. 'Dept of Development Services', but it's the same thing. I've worked with these kids, I've been attacked, bitten, hit and burned by young adults with development and emotional disabilities. I will always persist in my belief that abortion is the mother's choice. Sometime it's only her, alone with no family to give her any help that is left with a child that will alter the course of her entire life.

It's easy to sit at a computer and judge others from above it all, it's quite a different matter when personally faced with these choices. We have to put our feet into the shoes of others in order to be fair to them.

There's one more phenomena in Russia that nobody talks about. It's Russia's 'invisible children, those that have been abandoned and living on the streets in gangs or alone.

https://imrussia.org/en/nation/245-besprizorniki

besprizorniki-pic-3.jpg


"Some even point out that child homelessness rates are the indicator of the level of national degeneration."

Slamming Christians and God is all the rage with some idiots on here, and they love to constantly cast all Christians in a single mold.

Don't believe in God? Fine.....STFU about it and get on with your own life.
 
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person by a person. Even IF the zef were a person, if abortion is legal, it CANNOT be murder.

Good point. Illegal is a frame of reference however. abortion may not be murder in the 'secular' world, because the secular world simply has to cross its arms and say it isn't so. Religiously and spiritually, however, it doesn't work like that. Look at catholic or jewish law, for instance. Yes, most christian countries are secular, as in the west, but many people still follow the faiths. When I say abortion is murder, I'm obviously not referring to secular law, which is bound by the horrible RvW decision. When I or any religious person says abortion is murder, we're obviously referring to moral law, as defined by the bible. We find secular authority, on this issue, to be quite a bit less merciful than religious law here.
 
Good point. Illegal is a frame of reference however. abortion may not be murder in the 'secular' world, because the secular world simply has to cross its arms and say it isn't so. Religiously and spiritually, however, it doesn't work like that. Look at catholic or jewish law, for instance. Yes, most christian countries are secular, as in the west, but many people still follow the faiths. When I say abortion is murder, I'm obviously not referring to secular law, which is bound by the horrible RvW decision. When I or any religious person says abortion is murder, we're obviously referring to moral law, as defined by the bible. We find secular authority, on this issue, to be quite a bit less merciful than religious law here.

All fine and good. Live by whatever religious law/dogma you wish.
Just don't try to force others to live under your religious beliefs.

"Choice" allows for all folks (religious or not) to live their life according to their beliefs. Period.

I would assume you'd fight tooth and nail to not have many Islamic/Sharia laws implemented into our society. Right?
 
God has certainly been "just fine and dandy" with killing lots and lots of people. In fact, God has a 100% kill rate among all his creations - he kills us all, eventually. :)

Exactly. Glad somebody here admits it.

So why assume "god" is a ginormous hypocrite?
 
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