How Many Abortions Does "God" Perform????

[DarkWizard12]

That's not solely my personal belief. It's American law and stands on its own without religious belief, even tho it does parallel it.

For me, I believe that all people are equal and have a right to life. That's based on a belief in another man-made concept: rights. The foundation for laws in the US are our rights.

So wait, you can ONLY be religious, to support rights for the unborn? There is a lot of people that support that that aren't religious at all. One of them was Christopher Hitchens, who was no fan of religion at all, in fact, he has a long record against it.

 

[Lursa]

So wait, you can ONLY be religious, to support rights for the unborn? There is a lot of people that support that that aren't religious at all. One of them was Christopher Hitchens, who was no fan of religion at all, in fact, he has a long record against it.

I did not mean to write or imply that. I wrote the opposite somewhere else.

Ah, this is what I was thinking of:

Religious beliefs are fine for informing a person's position on abortion. As long as they arent forced on others by law.

I certainly do not disregard non-religious people's right to an opinion on the subject either. I just ask that the Constitution be the guide and protection for women's rights.

 

[ecofarm]

That's not solely my personal belief. It's American law and stands on its own without religious belief, even tho it does parallel it.

For me, I believe that all people are equal and have a right to life. That's based on a belief in another man-made concept: rights. The foundation for laws in the US are our rights.

So wait, you can ONLY be religious, to support rights for the unborn? There is a lot of people that support that that aren't religious at all. One of them was Christopher Hitchens, who was no fan of religion at all, in fact, he has a long record against it.

I can fix this. Her second sentence should read "without personal belief" instead of "without religious belief".

Her claim was truncated for, I presume, debate purposes; however, it applies to the various angles by which one arrives at an opposition position. See signature, Ecocentrism. Still a personal belief.

 

[DarkWizard12]

I did not write or imply that. I wrote the opposite somewhere else, very clearly.

Very well then I'll take you at your word.

The bible was one of the few documents that opened up humanity to the idea of "universal rights". That's why you see many historical documents, even in the enlightenment era, refer to us as "created". I guess people just took it for granted that humans would always view each other as divine creatures separate from the animals and beasts.

I think, you shouldn't need the bible, to say that a fetus should be allowed to develop into a fully human being.

 

[Lursa]

I think, you shouldn't need the bible, to say that a fetus should be allowed to develop into a fully human being.

I'm pretty sure that everyone would like for this to be the case, religious or otherwise.

 

[DarkWizard12]

I certainly do not disregard non-religious people's right to an opinion on the subject either. I just ask that the Constitution be the guide and protection for women's rights.

I too, ask that the constitution be a guide in the protection of the voiceless unborn...and now...those who or misfortunate enough to be born surviving an abortion.

 

[DarkWizard12]

I'm pretty sure that everyone would like for this to be the case, religious or otherwise.

Then it should also be the case that those ignorant of the religion, not to misconstrue or manipulate for personal ends, the religious perspective. Abortion has been discussed among the religious for 2000 years now, it's nothing new to us. Your average christian may not read the bible, as is often the case in the modern world, and therefore not know all the discussion and intricacies there in, but their belief from ignorance is not divergent from the teachings of the many scholars that have come before. This is nothing new, as I have explained, and I can list you a whole history of discussions and questions showing that the laws governing the fetus were really well reasoned and thought out, even compared to modern times.

 

[Lursa]

I too, ask that the constitution be a guide in the protection of the voiceless unborn...and now...those who or misfortunate enough to be born surviving an abortion.

That can only be at the expense of women's lives and rights. Legally, born and unborn cannot be treated equally. (This is not opinion...if you disagree, I'm interested in seeing how)

Every single pregnancy is a risk to a woman's life and it is not predictable.

The "universal you":
If you think the mother's will should be overcome to give birth, you do not value both equally. You are valuing the unborn over women.


I value the unborn but I value all born people more.

Which do you value more?

 

[Lursa]

Then it should also be the case that those ignorant of the religion, not to misconstrue or manipulate for personal ends, the religious perspective. Abortion has been discussed among the religious for 2000 years now, it's nothing new to us. Your average christian may not read the bible, as is often the case in the modern world, and therefore not know all the discussion and intricacies there in, but their belief from ignorance is not divergent from the teachings of the many scholars that have come before. This is nothing new, as I have explained, and I can list you a whole history of discussions and questions showing that the laws governing the fetus were really well reasoned and thought out, even compared to modern times.

No one holding their personal religious belief is restricted when it comes to abortion: each woman may follow her own belief.

 

[DarkWizard12]

That can only be at the expense of women's lives and rights. Legally, born and unborn cannot be treated equally. (This is not opinion...if you disagree, I'm interested in seeing how)

Every single pregnancy is a risk to a woman's life and it is not predictable.

i disagree on both points, but unfortunately i do not have time to explain. It is late in my time zone.

The "universal you":
If you think the mother's will should be overcome to give birth, you do not value both equally. You are valuing the unborn over women.


I value the unborn but I value all born people more.

Which do you value more?

By giving elective abortion the status of a murder that does not carry with it the punishment of the penalty, the value of the mother has already been placed above that of the unborn. Abortion, that is not done to save the life of the mother, should carry with it a fine, and no more. Wherease, of course, if a born person were to be murdered, it'd carry the death penalty/life imprisonment.

 

[Lursa]

i disagree on both points, but unfortunately i do not have time to explain. It is late in my time zone.

This is a fact: every single pregnancy is a risk to the life of the mother and it is not predictable.

If it was not true, for instance, women wouldnt die in childbirth when there were no prior indications or complications.

By giving elective abortion the status of a murder that does not carry with it the punishment of the penalty, the value of the mother has already been placed above that of the unborn. Abortion, that is not done to save the life of the mother, should carry with it a fine, and no more. Wherease, of course, if a born person were to be murdered, it'd carry the death penalty/life imprisonment.

And of course you avoided giving a personal answer to:

I value the unborn but I value all born people more.

Which do you value more?

but your response was a clear answer. So then why is it so hard to write it out honestly?

 

[Scrabaholic]

Hmmmm, and how would you prove that abortion isn't murder?

I already provided a verse. If a fetus is unintentionally killed, a man is fined. How much more so if one intentionally kills a fetus? So now, it's on you to provide a verse. I'm waiting.

The verse you provided was not about a woman terminating her pregnancy. It was a fail.

Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person by a person. Abortion is not.

 

[prometeus]

They are children whos souls were called back to God.

And those that are aborted are sent back to God.

No, I am not. I am inserting logic into the situation...

Is that what you call your uninformed opinion?

God can't murder in the same way that you can't steal your own belongings...

That is just stupid drivel.

 

[gfm7175]

And those that are aborted are sent back to God.

By people who have no right to do so...

Is that what you call your uninformed opinion?

Argument of the Stone Fallacy.

That is just stupid drivel.

Argument of the Stone Fallacy. Insult Fallacy.

 

[prometeus]

By people who have no right to do so...

Nothing happens without the will of God.

Argument of the Stone Fallacy.

NO, some things are so stupid that it is self evident, like your posts.