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How long before pragmatism outweighs patriotism among "essential" federal employees?

Xelor

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Hundreds of thousands of federal employees have been deemed essential; thus they are expected to toil without being paid. Such workers include, but are not limited to:
  • The Federal Aviation Administration
  • Border Patrol agents
  • Immigration enforcement personnel
  • Law enforcement officers
  • Federal firefighters
If the shutdown goes on long enough, a lot of essential and non-essential workers will, simply to maintain cash flows, have to quit their jobs and obtain employment elsewhere. Indeed, principals at several consultancies have have shared that some essential and furloughed skilled workers -- economists, statisticians, programmers, analysts, and technical project managers, to note a few -- already have begun shopping their CVs.

Perhaps the shutdown is part of a concerted plan to impel civil servants to leave, thereby draining the federal government of its most adroit and able workers? Perhaps a shutdown-catalyzed exodus is merely organic, though there still, the skills and tenure lost is no less detrimental to the country.

And has Trump issued an executive order (the most timely proactive means) to re: credit card issuers, car note and mortgage holders, etc. to ensure the shutdown doesn't result in the affected workers' having their credit ratings lowered, charge cards cancelled, cars and homes repossessed/foreclosed, etc? Not that I've heard.

Trump doesn't give a damn about them, and nothing in the whole of his "gilded spoon from birth" life affords him context for doing so.
 
Hundreds of thousands of federal employees have been deemed essential; thus they are expected to toil without being paid. Such workers include, but are not limited to:
  • The Federal Aviation Administration
  • Border Patrol agents
  • Immigration enforcement personnel
  • Law enforcement officers
  • Federal firefighters
If the shutdown goes on long enough, a lot of essential and non-essential workers will, simply to maintain cash flows, have to quit their jobs and obtain employment elsewhere. Indeed, principals at several consultancies have have shared that some essential and furloughed skilled workers -- economists, statisticians, programmers, analysts, and technical project managers, to note a few -- already have begun shopping their CVs.

Perhaps the shutdown is part of a concerted plan to impel civil servants to leave, thereby draining the federal government of its most adroit and able workers? Perhaps a shutdown-catalyzed exodus is merely organic, though there still, the skills and tenure lost is no less detrimental to the country.

And has Trump issued an executive order (the most timely proactive means) to re: credit card issuers, car note and mortgage holders, etc. to ensure the shutdown doesn't result in the affected workers' having their credit ratings lowered, charge cards cancelled, cars and homes repossessed/foreclosed, etc? Not that I've heard.

Trump doesn't give a damn about them, and nothing in the whole of his "gilded spoon from birth" life affords him context for doing so.

And Trump tweeted that he was canceling this years raise, there should be no doubt that he is still on the project of taking a hatchet to the administrative state.

I approve of that, I dont approve of how he is doing it.
 
Hundreds of thousands of federal employees have been deemed essential; thus they are expected to toil without being paid. Such workers include, but are not limited to:
  • The Federal Aviation Administration
  • Border Patrol agents
  • Immigration enforcement personnel
  • Law enforcement officers
  • Federal firefighters
If the shutdown goes on long enough, a lot of essential and non-essential workers will, simply to maintain cash flows, have to quit their jobs and obtain employment elsewhere. Indeed, principals at several consultancies have have shared that some essential and furloughed skilled workers -- economists, statisticians, programmers, analysts, and technical project managers, to note a few -- already have begun shopping their CVs.

Perhaps the shutdown is part of a concerted plan to impel civil servants to leave, thereby draining the federal government of its most adroit and able workers? Perhaps a shutdown-catalyzed exodus is merely organic, though there still, the skills and tenure lost is no less detrimental to the country.

And has Trump issued an executive order (the most timely proactive means) to re: credit card issuers, car note and mortgage holders, etc. to ensure the shutdown doesn't result in the affected workers' having their credit ratings lowered, charge cards cancelled, cars and homes repossessed/foreclosed, etc? Not that I've heard.

Trump doesn't give a damn about them, and nothing in the whole of his "gilded spoon from birth" life affords him context for doing so.
until democrats swallow their damn pride, every single one of them can go into the unemployment line as far as I'm concerned.
 
Hundreds of thousands of federal employees have been deemed essential; thus they are expected to toil without being paid. Such workers include, but are not limited to:
  • The Federal Aviation Administration
  • Border Patrol agents
  • Immigration enforcement personnel
  • Law enforcement officers
  • Federal firefighters
If the shutdown goes on long enough, a lot of essential and non-essential workers will, simply to maintain cash flows, have to quit their jobs and obtain employment elsewhere. Indeed, principals at several consultancies have have shared that some essential and furloughed skilled workers -- economists, statisticians, programmers, analysts, and technical project managers, to note a few -- already have begun shopping their CVs.

Perhaps the shutdown is part of a concerted plan to impel civil servants to leave, thereby draining the federal government of its most adroit and able workers? Perhaps a shutdown-catalyzed exodus is merely organic, though there still, the skills and tenure lost is no less detrimental to the country.

And has Trump issued an executive order (the most timely proactive means) to re: credit card issuers, car note and mortgage holders, etc. to ensure the shutdown doesn't result in the affected workers' having their credit ratings lowered, charge cards cancelled, cars and homes repossessed/foreclosed, etc? Not that I've heard.

Trump doesn't give a damn about them, and nothing in the whole of his "gilded spoon from birth" life affords him context for doing so.

Government employees don't deserve any special treatment that their private sector counterparts wouldn't get.

Government employees...before they accept a position to work for the government...should be aware what could happen in the event of a government shutdown. (this current shutdown isn't the first time this has happened) They should arrange their behavior and finances to be prepared for a shutdown happening.

I do agree that there should be ZERO "essential" people working...whether with or without pay. If an agency doesn't have funding...if it "shuts down"...then that agency should not be operating. At all. Of course, that's just my opinion. Congress has deemed this not to be the case. However, if Congress agreed with my opinion, I'm sure we would NEVER see a government shutdown being used as a political weapon. We would never have to worry about essential federal employees being required to work without getting paid for it.
 
The Shutdown has already gone on too long. One day is too long given the absurdity of shutting down your own government.

Trump will declare a National Emergency as that is the only trap door he has that he can still open. He won't win in the courts because his inability to understand the process of government has created this entire debacle. The Congress holds the power of the purse. An Executive that is so absurdly unfit that he cannot work the process of checks and balances with which we are designed is NOT a National Emergency. Instead Trump has thrown a temper tantrum. What a shock. Trump said publicly from the WH just yesterday "If i cannot get what I want, I might just do that (referring to declaring a National Emergency). That comment and others like it seals the deal for pulling this National Emergency nonsense and getting his Wall out of it.

So he actually will get the result he wants. He won't get his Wall. We will end up reopening the government by any number of means. Donald gets to announce to his base that he did all he could do but he could do no more to try to get the Wall.

But Trump losses a good deal in this as well. The Great Negotiator had to resort to throwing a tantrum and trying to "dictate" to the rest of the country? Good luck with that one Donald.

The other big loser besides Donald no matter what he does at this point is the GOP which is being worn down to dust every day Donald is in office. Now of course a good many Trumpets don't care. A good of them don't care about the entire country let alone one of the two major political parties within it.
 
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The Shutdown has already gone on too long. One day is too long given the absurdity of shutting down your own government.

Trump will declare a National Emergency as that is the only trap door he has that he can still open. He won't win in the courts because his inability to understand the process of government has created this entire debacle. The Congress holds the power of the purse. An Executive that is so absurdly unfit that he cannot work the process of checks and balances with which we are designed is NOT a National Emergency. Instead Trump has thrown a temper tantrum. What a shock. Trump said publicly from the WH just yesterday "If i cannot get what I want, I might just do that (referring to declaring a National Emergency). That comment and others like it seals the deal for pulling this National Emergency nonsense and getting his Wall out of it.

So he actually will get the result he wants. He won't get his Wall. We will end up reopening the government by any number of means. Donald gets to announce to his base that he did all he could do but he could do no more to try to get the Wall.

But Trump losses a good deal in this as well. The Great Negotiator had to resort to throwing a tantrum and trying to "dictate" to the rest of the country? Good luck with that one Donald.

The other big loser besides Donald no matter what he does at this point is the GOP which is being worn down to dust every day Donald is in office. Now of course a good many Trumpets don't care. A good of them don't care about the entire country let alone one of the two major political parties within it.

Nice rant there for sure. Congress is dysfunctional, has not passed the necessary funding (aka 'budget') bills (the cause of the "shutdown"), yet you decide that Chuck and Nancy have the right to say what the POTUS can or can't do. Did congress not pass a law granting the POTUS the power to declare a "national emergency" and then play fast and loose by reallocating prior congressional appropriations of funds?
 
Nice rant there for sure. Congress is dysfunctional, has not passed the necessary funding (aka 'budget') bills (the cause of the "shutdown"), yet you decide that Chuck and Nancy have the right to say what the POTUS can or can't do. Did congress not pass a law granting the POTUS the power to declare a "national emergency" and then play fast and loose by reallocating prior congressional appropriations of funds?

He can call whatever he wants to call. The power of the purse is held in the Congress and they can decide to fund or not fund. Donald can not abscond with the power of the purse. His inability to deal with the Congress and accept the structure of this government is his problem and that problem is not a National Emergency.

Call my post a rant if you want. The "burn it all down crowd" does nothing for me. So I just don't care if you think it was a rant. See if this does not work out exactly as I just described it.
 
So reviewing Trump's last "negotiating" move, he is trying to piecemeal sections of wall by bootstrapping them to CR's. He has on the table now 220 miles of wall funding. In effect, what he is trying here at the last is to set up a series of CR bootstraps as a means to get to a completed wall "someday" never having actually gone through the Appropriations process to get it. Nice try Donald.
 
He can call whatever he wants to call. The power of the purse is held in the Congress and they can decide to fund or not fund. Donald can not abscond with the power of the purse. His inability to deal with the Congress and accept the structure of this government is his problem and that problem is not a National Emergency.

Call my post a rant if you want. The "burn it all down crowd" does nothing for me. So I just don't care if you think it was a rant. See if this does not work out exactly as I just described it.

I agree that the POTUS cannot call the current congressional dysfunction a national emergency yet he can, and may well, call thousands of folks illegally crossing the US border a national emergency which requires more resources (infrastructure, manpower and equipment) than have been allocated by congress to deal with it.
 
I agree that the POTUS cannot call the current congressional dysfunction a national emergency yet he can, and may well, call thousands of folks illegally crossing the US border a national emergency which requires more resources (infrastructure, manpower and equipment) than have been allocated by congress to deal with it.

That won't wash. All of the elements of his "National Emergency" have been headed down for a decade at least and he won't be able to dodge the simple fact that there is a process for funding that he cannot manipulate to do his bidding. TO BAD is what the courts will say. He won't be able to dodge the fact that he has had two years to get his Wall funding and frankly has not even tried. Attempting to bootstrap new appropriations onto CR's is yet another effort to avoid the process and he did not even begin that nonsense till the end of last year and into this one.

It hardly matters. He does not want the Wall. He wants the Wall fight.
 
That won't wash. All of the elements of his "National Emergency" have been headed down for a decade at least and he won't be able to dodge the simple fact that there is a process for funding that he cannot manipulate to do his bidding. TO BAD is what the courts will say. H won't be able to dodge the fact that he has had two years to get his Wall funding and frankly has not even tried. Attempting to bootstrap new appropriations onto CR's is yet another effort to avoid the process and he did not even begin that nonsense till the end of last year and into this one.

It hardly matters. He does not want the Wall. He wants the Wall fight.

I can certainly agree that border security and especially interior immigration law enforcement have been largely ignored and underfunded for decades. Neither party has enough members that care to change that situation or admit their true motivation for taking that position. I share your doubts that the POTUS can go it alone and git-r-done but he can make an effort to do so. Leadership is often more about saying come on than saying go on.

IMHO, Trump could be far more effective (if the goal was truly to slow or stop illegal immigration) by concentrating on preventing the employment of illegal immigrants, but that would be counter to his dream of helping the "job creators" (a major campaign cash source) get much richer much faster.

I have come to accept that much of what government (meaning the ruling elite) does is for the benefit of those supplying the constant and large flow of campaign cash to keep them in power. Corruption makes the political world go round - all we can do is hope to enjoy the ride.
 
I agree that the POTUS cannot call the current congressional dysfunction a national emergency yet he can, and may well, call thousands of folks illegally crossing the US border a national emergency which requires more resources (infrastructure, manpower and equipment) than have been allocated by congress to deal with it.
Let's get this straight: Nothing in your post above has a damn thing to do with the thead topic, which is the matter of furloughed or unpaid, yet not furloughed ("essential") workers having to quit their current jobs and seek employment elsewhere.

Red:
Yes, the man can and will, as has been shown by his rhetoric, say anything without regard to its veracity and without regard to what his own Department of Homeland Security says.
  • CBP Border SecurityReport
    • In FY17, CBP recorded the lowest level of illegal cross-border migration on record, asmeasured by apprehensions along the border and inadmissible encounters at U.S. ports ofentry.
    • CBP recorded 310,531 apprehensions by U.S. Border Patrol agents and 216,370inadmissible cases by CBP officers in FY17, a 23.7% decline over the previousyear. [Note: Inadmissible persons are folks who show up at a port of entry and aren't admitted. Those migrants aren't arrested unless they are subsequently found to have illegally entered.]

CPB illegal immigration arrests/removals are far below what they used to be.

"Overall, removals are down because the border's under better control than it has been in 45 years."
-- Tom Homan, ICE Acting Director (2017)

 

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OP-er's request to members:

This thead's topic is the matter of furloughed or unpaid, yet not furloughed ("essential") workers having to quit their current jobs and seek employment elsewhere and what impact that phenomenon may have on the effective and efficient operations of the federal government.


Members seem not to have thoughts they care to share and that pertain to the actual thread topic. That is what it is, but please share your off-topic thoughts in threads where those thoughts are the topic.
 
Let's get this straight: Nothing in your post above has a damn thing to do with the thead topic [...snip the rest]

Let's get this straight - neither did the post to which I replied which you gave a "like" - could that be because you agreed with it's off topic content? Don't get all "religious" with those who reply to "off topic" posts of others simply because you disagree with what they might have to say. If you don't want to discuss a matter in my post then simply don't. I often don't follow threads from the OP - I may spot a post in "newest forum posts" which interests me and make reply to it.
 
The means to end the shutdown for all Depts other than DHS is sitting right before the Senate. Even the means to opening DHS sits right before the Senate.

The laughable absurdity of holding the entire government hostage because the President wants a Wall Fight, not even a Wall but a Wall Fight is obvious.

If I assume for a moment that Donald wants his Wall, it is not the American peoples fault and certainly not government workers fault that he never knew how to get it and never tried. He just railed about trying.

If forum members don't understand what risks we run for ourselves and what damage we do to government workers through this absurd Gov. shutdown or any Gov. shutdown for that matter I can only say then that I continue to be amazed at how obtuse we have become as a people.

I find those that argue from the Well of the Senate for this slap dashed avoidance of the process of checks and balances that is our government as a means to get something we could argue that their President actually does not believe in based on his own performance as the Chief Executive even more objectionable than that Chief Executive himself. We know he does not know better. We don't any longer expect him to defend anything but himself and benefit anything but his own absurd, narcissistic and grotesquely self absorbed nature. We expect Senators to know better and to at the least protect the functions of their own Chamber as opposed to mutating them beyond recognition.

Just for the record, i do not believe Minority Leader Schumer should attempt to block all Senate action until McConnell takes up the Bills from the House that would reopen government. Schumer just never learns that two wrongs don't make a right. He is as useless as tits on a bull.
 
Let's get this straight - neither did the post to which I replied which you gave a "like" - could that be because you agreed with it's off topic content? Don't get all "religious" with those who reply to "off topic" posts of others simply because you disagree with what they might have to say. If you don't want to discuss a matter in my post then simply don't. I often don't follow threads from the OP - I may spot a post in "newest forum posts" which interests me and make reply to it.

I gave it a like because I agree with enough of it. You'll notice, however, I didn't reply to it. I didn't reply to it because I knew damn well that the remarks were off-topic.
 
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