How Legitimate Peace And Unity Begins

[Tim the plumber]

How to spot someone who really isn't interested in unity? They will attack your character and not your ideas.

Yes. So calling me a science denier is wxactly that.

back to the subject of this thread; how do we avoid civil war?

 

[Tim the plumber]

The lying is squarely on your part.

State officials of both parties looked into allegations of Fraud.

60+ court cases lost.

There was a process, the claims of Trump and his traitorous mob are entirely fictional.

You choose not to look at video evidence because it is from people who you have been told not to listen to.

You are even lying to yourself.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Someone from Antifa talking about "peace and unity," anyone else catch the irony?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Someone from Antifa talking about "peace and unity," anyone else catch the irony?

Hey, yes, but there is hope here.

Antifa starting to get the idea that people should be able to be heard. Good stater.

 

[notquiteright]

How to spot someone who really isn't interested in unity? They will attack your character and not your ideas.

Once upon a time a man's character counted for something more than something tRumpers wish to ignore. Yanno back in the Founder's day which the rabid right waved about when wanting cover... ☹

Face it The Pubs let a conman take over their party to keep the rabble inline. tRump ransacked the party and left it worse than a frat house after a drunken weekend. Fact is the rabid right has been for and against 'ideas' depending on the political winds. (remember all those empty votes to kill the ACA when Obama was in office then a complete failure once in complete power???)

How to spot someone who really isn't interested in unity???

Expects you to ignore the rancid stench in the air as tRump throws everyone under the bus, poops on 2 centuries of peaceful transfer, and denies he incited the first invasion of the Capital since 1814. Bet they also think compromise is coming 90% of the way across and waiting for the other side to move 10%... ✌

 

[Aunt Antifa]

You strongly feel that Trump attempted to rig the election.

I strongly feel that theDNC has sucessfully rigged the election.

How about all such claims are fully, openly, investigated so that we can both understand the situation?

I have a tape of him trying to rig an election. You have 63 courts that kicked your claims out.

Your stuff is made up stuff.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

What do you think Democrats and their followers should do?

Exactly what we are: vote vote vote. Demand our pols do their jobs.

In regular life we already see what Americans are doing: punishing the GOP. Marriott just announced today it’s halting donations to the GOP. People don’t want to be in business with seditious Nazis.

 

[hindsight]

Don't say ya'll. I never supported Trump and I definitely do not support what happened in DC this week.

This is you taking the chicken shit way out.

Uh-huh.

Sure.

Whatever you say.

 

[NWRatCon]

Here's a good example:

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Hey, yes, but there is hope here.

Antifa starting to get the idea that people should be able to be heard. Good stater.

Do you regret your vote for Donald Trump?

 

[Tim the plumber]

I have a tape of him trying to rig an election. You have 63 courts that kicked your claims out.

Your stuff is made up stuff.

Have you looked at the videos of people doing election fraud? Car full of postal ballots? etc?

Given that all this causes those who have watched it including 25% of Democrat voters to consider the election fraudulent there is a need for it to be properly examined to avoid civil war.

Which is worse, having the election overturned due to fraud being shown or civil war?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Do you regret your vote for Donald Trump?

I didn't. I am British.

But I would have voted for Trump, or Bernie over the abjectly corrupt Biden.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Have you looked at the videos of people doing election fraud? Car full of postal ballots? etc?

Given that all this causes those who have watched it including 25% of Democrat voters to consider the election fraudulent there is a need for it to be properly examined to avoid civil war.

Which is worse, having the election overturned due to fraud being shown or civil war?

You’re not going to threaten us to overturn the election. Y’all already tried that.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

I didn't. I am British.

But I would have voted for Trump, or Bernie over the abjectly corrupt Biden.

Oh you don’t live here? So why would I care what you think about any of it?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Republicans must:

• To a man and woman acknowledge the elections were legitimate, Biden won fairly, and Donald Trump’s fantastical claims of election rigging were just that. They must acknowledge the voter fraud hoax they used as a predicate for their campaigning.
• Those who incited the insurrection by backing these claims should resign. Cruz and Hawley have to go, for sure.
• Donald Trump must be impeached with strong bi-partisan support. Removal, should it come now or next congress, same. Both parties must speak with one voice where he is concerned.
• LEadership must ratchet way down the Rush Limbaification of their rhetoric. Stop using commie marxist socialist interchangably in response to virtually every policy proposal a Democratic politician makes (be adults, and stop with the dumb DEMOCRAT POL shit). Stop calling your voters “patriots” vs everyone else.
• Republican voters themselves need to take a breath and instead of demanding we listen to ”74m of us” stop to think there were 81m who disagreed, we are Americans too, and we should have a say as well. The idea that the 74m are the single most important group of humans in the country demanding all of our oxygen is an idea that needs to be put to bed.

Notice none of these bullet points require accepting policies you don’t agree with, polticians you don’t wish to vote for, etc. But if your expression of peace and unity is simply demanding no accountablity for the GOP while still telling us it was a rigged election and we’re all commies, and George Soros, blah blah nope. Nope.

Elections have consequences.

Trump militia are returning on January 17th, 19th and Inauguration Day, they've stated numerous times that they're not only returning, they're bringing weapons.

"We will come in numbers that no standing army or police agency can match,” wrote a popular Parler user who frequently posts about QAnon.

So I do not want to hear talk of unity or peace because it's not legit anymore.
Sorry, the Second Civil War has begun.
All the RW happy talk is bullshit, and all the happy talk from everywhere else is just "it can't happen here."
Well, it HAS happened.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yes. So calling me a science denier is wxactly that.

back to the subject of this thread; how do we avoid civil war?

We DON'T.
It already started.
Trump started it and we are going to finish it.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Uh-huh.

Sure.

Whatever you say.

And you know this because?

 

[NatMorton]

Exactly what we are: vote vote vote. Demand our pols do their jobs.

In regular life we already see what Americans are doing: punishing the GOP. Marriott just announced today it’s halting donations to the GOP. People don’t want to be in business with seditious Nazis.

And that’s how “unity begins,” attempting to label the entire Republican party “seditious Nazis.”

(BTW, at what point does the irony of your profile name dawn on you?)

 

[mike2810]

I find some of the rhetoric from the left and right to be one sided and not helpful. What happened to being able to agree to disagree without the hatred. One side doesn't like the other sides policies. Neither are willing to work on solutions. The solutions it seems is accept "our sides" or nothing.

I have said it before. No one Party has all the answers. Our elected leaders hopefully will find a way to come together and lead rather than throw stones at each other.

 

[mike2810]

You strongly feel that Trump attempted to rig the election.

I strongly feel that theDNC has sucessfully rigged the election.

How about all such claims are fully, openly, investigated so that we can both understand the situation?

Feelings mean nothing to me. If you believe the election was rigged by all means tell us what convinced you? Did you only accept what Team Trump has said? How about Georgia or Arizona rebuttal to the fraud claims? Is Dominion not telling the truth?

Funny how President Trump said long before the election that the only way he will loose is if it is rigged. Seems all I have read is the "evidence" will be shown, but it never is. Team Trump, S. Powell, et.al. have yet to provide the evidence. imo, they are hoping if they say "fraud and rigged" long enough people will begin to believe it.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

• To a man and woman acknowledge the elections were legitimate, Biden won fairly, and Donald Trump’s fantastical claims of election rigging were just that. They must acknowledge the voter fraud hoax they used as a predicate for their campaigning.
• Those who incited the insurrection by backing these claims should resign. Cruz and Hawley have to go, for sure.
• Donald Trump must be impeached with strong bi-partisan support. Removal, should it come now or next congress, same. Both parties must speak with one voice where he is concerned.
• LEadership must ratchet way down the Rush Limbaification of their rhetoric. Stop using commie marxist socialist interchangably in response to virtually every policy proposal a Democratic politician makes (be adults, and stop with the dumb DEMOCRAT POL shit). Stop calling your voters “patriots” vs everyone else.
• Republican voters themselves need to take a breath and instead of demanding we listen to ”74m of us” stop to think there were 81m who disagreed, we are Americans too, and we should have a say as well. The idea that the 74m are the single most important group of humans in the country demanding all of our oxygen is an idea that needs to be put to bed.

It has yet to be settled what happened, and what did not happen, during the elections. There is too much counter-information to the *no fraud* story. Over the next months and years I think it quite likely that it will be examined. It was not examined. It was denied right from the start. I may very well be wrong but my intuition tells me there is more here than meets the eye.

So, for me, any politician who backs down now because of political cowardice, loses credibility. And those who stand up to the efforts to silence and vilify the many who are concerned about this and many other issues will get my support and backing.

The entire issue of para-democratic activism (rioting, looting, occupations of city-centers, attacks on police stations, as well as the relatively minor in comparison by symbolically potent invasion of the Capitol) needs to be genuinely discussed by clear-headed people. The Left-leaning factions have been engaged in these insurrection-like activities for months and years now. The political Left and the social Progressive Left has crossed many lines over this last Summer. If I clearly see this, then many others clearly see it. The larger danger in terms of *insurrection* has definitely not been the Trump-base. However, it is not possible to deny that they are moving in a direction that is more activist and militant.

The 'rhetoric' of which you speak must be made into better and considered communication of principles. It must be expanded. It must be made more intellectual, more incisive. It must base itself more strongly in American Constitutional principles. In many ways Tucker Carlson has turned 'right-wingism' upsided-won. His piece on Singer broke out of the Left-Right mold and much of his discourse is similar. The discourse is changing. I can think of no example of Republican discourse or rhetoric that ever could have taken an anti-capitalist raider position. At the same time the Democratic Party has itself morphed substantially. But this happened once before, did it not? The Democratic Party was once the regressive party and the Republican Party that of the progressives. Curious shape-shifting going on!

Unfortunatley, as the genuine differences are explored and if they are expressed intellectually and not emotionally, *we* will likely not be able and will not want to agree with *you* or to accept your transvaluation of values. So what we need to take into account is not the diminishment of difference, but the sharpening of differences.

All this talk about *Unity in America* is the sort of rhetoric crafted by public relations firms! You might see some *inspiring* pastiche of such saccharine sentiments (excuse the cheesy alliteration!) in a half-time presentation. But what is going on in America is really of another order.

I watched this man's presentation and found that I agreed with a great deal of it. It contradicts what you seem to be asking.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

And that’s how “unity begins,” attempting to label the entire Republican party “seditious Nazis.”

(BTW, at what point does the irony of your profile name dawn on you?)

I didn’t attempt it, they made it happen this past week. Y’all seem to not understand that unity isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free-card. In fact, there can be no unity until there is a reckoning with the GOP’s complete disregard for their own behavior in all this. The majority of GOP leadership was all in on screaming stolen election until Jan 6 when they realized whoops, we might have pushed this too far.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

It has yet to be settled what happened, and what did not happen, during the elections. There is too much counter-information to the *no fraud* story. Over the next months and years I think it quite likely that it will be examined. It was not examined. It was denied right from the start. I may very well be wrong but my intuition tells me there is more here than meets the eye.

So, for me, any politician who backs down now because of political cowardice, loses credibility. And those who stand up to the efforts to silence and vilify the many who are concerned about this and many other issues will get my support and backing.

The entire issue of para-democratic activism (rioting, looting, occupations of city-centers, attacks on police stations, as well as the relatively minor in comparison by symbolically potent invasion of the Capitol) needs to be genuinely discussed by clear-headed people. The Left-leaning factions have been engaged in these insurrection-like activities for months and years now. The political Left and the social Progressive Left has crossed many lines over this last Summer. If I clearly see this, then many others clearly see it. The larger danger in terms of *insurrection* has definitely not been the Trump-base. However, it is not possible to deny that they are moving in a direction that is more activist and militant.

The 'rhetoric' of which you speak must be made better. It must be expanded. It must be made more intellectual. It must base itself more strongly in American Constitutional principles. In many ways Tucker Carlson has turned 'right-wingism' upsided-won. His piece on Singer broke out of the Left-Right mold and much of his discourse is similar. The discourse is changing. I can think of no example of Republican discourse or rhetoric that ever could have taken an anti-capitalist raider position. At the same time the Democratic Party has itself morphed substantially. But this happened once before, did it not? The Democratic Party was once the regressive party and the Republican Party that of the progressives. Curious shape-shifting going on!

Unfortunatley, as the genuine differences are explored and if they are expressed intellectually and not emotionally, *we* will likely not be able and will not want to agree with *you* or to accept your transvaluation of values. So what we need to take into account is not the diminishment of difference, but the sharpening of differences.

All this talk about *Unity in America* is the sort of rhetoric crafted by public relations firms! You might see some *inspiring* pastiche of such saccharine sentiments (excuse the cheesy alliteration!) in a half-time presentation. But what is going on in America is really of another order.

I watched this man's presentation and found that I agreed with a great deal of it. It contradicts what you seem to be asking.

Nope. It’s been certified.

Didn’t read anything after that.

 

[noonereal]

It has yet to be settled what happened, and what did not happen, during the elections.

I am so sick of this nonsense.

Listen here is what TRUMP did.

He said, "hey, a flying saucer came down and spacemen ran amuck on election night."

Then, EVERYONE says to him, no, we have procedures and check all over the place and there was no UFO and no spacemen.

Trump then says, "you have to prove that there were no spacemen and UFO because I say there were."

Can you really not see that it's up to the kid crying wolf to produce the wolf?

and that he didn't couldn't?

You don't need to disprove a claim, you have to prove a claim.

 

[gbg3]

Honestly, I can't even believe this OP but that's certainly not the only thing of the last few days I find unbelievable. We're headed into a seriously weird place, America.
Dems, you are really, really, really misreading conservatives. What you obviously think we're thinking and what we're actually thinking couldn't be further apart.