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How large a threat do you view China?

China isn't a threat. It's an inevitability.
It's an old and well worn rule never to underestimate your opponent, in military matters in particular.

It is also concomitantly imprudent to make your military enemy ten feet tall with big dicks. The CCP-PRC has many internal contradictions, shortcomings and self limiting factors such as to name but one debt increasing faster than GDP growth during most of the past decade.

The number aged 60 and older will comprise 40% of the population by the end of this decade with a fertility rate of 1.3 per woman. One in five Chinese younger than age 35 is set against marriage and prefers a cat to a child given the expenses plus being responsible for their parents in their old age.

Several years ago CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing had to recall a significant number of retired Naval senior CPO because they were building so many ships yet the old hands knew little or nothing about the new naval vessels and they still need to read the manuals onboard to try to figure things out -- these guys won't be around long enough either to make any difference because they haven't any significant difference to make.

It is CCP Party-Government policy not to pay even adequately for military personnel, training, pay, assistance, benefits, facilities and so on for either active duty or retired because the Boyz in Beijing can't anywhere near afford the armed forces budget the USA has. The USA is hard pressed to sustain its military budgets yet we make the sacrifice the Boyz in Beijing cannot. It's fact anyway the CCP Party-Government has a much greater budget for internal control and domestic "security" than for its armed forces that are owned and controlled by the Party.
 
I think that China is quite a threat to Taiwan.

I do not think that it is a threat to any other place.

China needs to be put in its place.

I remember that after the Vietnam War, China invaded Vietnam.

And the Vietnamese chased the Chinese out.

Hopefully, the Chinese will suffer another such embarrassing defeat.

They have gotten too big for their britches.
 
Masters of the region. And a military power to be reckoned with whether you wish to deal with it or not.
Reread Orphanslug’s post.

Two thingys on that. One I'll not chase around after somebody's post somewhere in the thread and secondly, as with Colonel Jessup, you'll have to ask me politely. And as long as we're referencing previous posts I'll present you again with my own work...

China is not going anywhere naval much less as a regional power or any kind of sea power. CCP Dictator Tyrants in Beijing could put all their military resources into the PLA Navy only to find their Navy at the bottom of China's continental shelf.

China is locked in at its continental shelf by the Japan islands to include the Japanese Ryukyu chain that extends to Taiwan. Beijing's islands in the South China Sea -- artificial and natural -- are isolated and lonely unconnected outposts in a vast sea against US and allied forces in the air and on the sea. The islands are too small to put up any defense and too distant from the China mainland to defend.


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The Miyako Strait just north of Taiwan is the only direct route of the PLAN to the open western Pacific and Miyako is completely fortified by Japan and the US with Taiwan right there too. PLAN would need to try to fight its way through the heavily fortified and obstructed Miyako which would mean prohibitively heavy PLAN losses to include the PLA Air Force. PLAN not using the Miyako Strait to the open western Pacific would mean PLAN would need to traverse north past SK and Japan, around the Japan islands and down to the open ocean. Indeed, no PLAN fleet can consider any such possible roundabout routing to the open western Pacific.

In the South China Sea Beijing's islands would be disappeared virtually instantaneously in any serious conflict and Beijing knows this. The PLAN South Fleet which is the largest of the PLAN three fleets is based on Hainan island in the north of the SCS. This fleet too would be trapped in the SCS which is in fact a Chinese lake full of sitting ducks. The only direct route the PLAN South Fleet has to the open western Pacific is the Bashi Channel between Taiwan and the Philippines. That too would incur heavy losses for the PLAN to include the PLA AF.

Beijing has tons of missiles for A2/AD while the US just doesn't need an enormous arsenal of missiles to strike missile command and control centers and facilities on the China mainland. The US isn't ever going to be launching missiles on an absurd arrow for arrow basis when it can solve the situation by striking swiftly and effectively the mainland command and control centers.


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India which became a Strategic Partner of the U.S. in 2015 recently completed constructing a huge naval base and a large air force base on its Andaman islands just north of the Malacca Strait and at the Bay of Bengal where Beijing is building commercial ports in Myanmar and bases for the PLAN and PLAN AF. Beijing wants the oil tankers from the ME to deliver the goods there instead of having to traverse the SCS, so India militarized the Andamans. Still however, tankers from the ME to Myanmar whose oil gets transported overland on to China must pass south of the India subcontinent where the Indian Strategic Partnership with the U.S. grants the U.S. armed forces full access to all Indian military bases to include against a third country.

India signed up formally with the U.S. and allies of the region to include other Strategic Partners after Xi Jinpingpong said in 2014 that, "The Indian Ocean is not Indian." For India Xi stepped across a red line with that one. Chinese foot in mouth disease it is and Xi has a severe case of it that spreads across the entire and vast Indo-Pacific geostrategic region. So when Beijing began sending intrusive vessels to the Nansha islands off the coast of Indonesia in the Indonesian EEZ Jakarta sent a naval fleet of 40 ships to lay down the law. As the defense minister said, "You can lock your front door but if you leave your back door unlocked the thief will come in."


P.S. I would not want to serve alongside someone who's ready to surrender solely because it's the Chinese over the horizon.
 
I think that China is quite a threat to Taiwan.

I do not think that it is a threat to any other place.

China needs to be put in its place.

I remember that after the Vietnam War, China invaded Vietnam.

And the Vietnamese chased the Chinese out.

Hopefully, the Chinese will suffer another such embarrassing defeat.

They have gotten too big for their britches.

Agreed and in "Deng"s War" which was the 1979 PLA incursion into VN the high command in Hanoi used only their militia and reserves to drive the PLA out of barely crossing the border while placing their regular divisions around the major cities that history told 'em to build away from the border with China.

The CCP Party-Government's armed forces units have two coequal commanders, from the Platoon up to a Corps, which are the military commander and the political commander. In fact the political commander is senior to the military commander which in the 1979 disaster left each one pointing the index finger at the other as the entire force sped a hasty retreat back into China. We can expect the same idiocy from the PLA Navy and AF.

As to Taiwan, it's a long known military principle that when a defending force can destroy or disable 40% of the enemy invader's force that's enough. The invader needs to turn back at the great risk of losing 80% of its invasion force. Taiwan knows it doesn't have to beat back the whole of the invasion force. Taiwan is the long standing center of the chip industry and they know what they need in cyber, EW and so on. There are few areas on the island to include sea approaches suited to an amphibious invasion force and Taiwan's got 'em covered. Indeed, on D-Day 1944 the Allied invasion force lost 5% of its force strength so the Germans didn't have a prayer from before even the first round was fired.
 
It's an old and well worn rule never to underestimate your opponent, in military matters in particular.

It is also concomitantly imprudent to make your military enemy ten feet tall with big dicks. The CCP-PRC has many internal contradictions, shortcomings and self limiting factors such as to name but one debt increasing faster than GDP growth during most of the past decade.

The number aged 60 and older will comprise 40% of the population by the end of this decade with a fertility rate of 1.3 per woman. One in five Chinese younger than age 35 is set against marriage and prefers a cat to a child given the expenses plus being responsible for their parents in their old age.

Several years ago CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing had to recall a significant number of retired Naval senior CPO because they were building so many ships yet the old hands knew little or nothing about the new naval vessels and they still need to read the manuals onboard to try to figure things out -- these guys won't be around long enough either to make any difference because they haven't any significant difference to make.

It is CCP Party-Government policy not to pay even adequately for military personnel, training, pay, assistance, benefits, facilities and so on for either active duty or retired because the Boyz in Beijing can't anywhere near afford the armed forces budget the USA has. The USA is hard pressed to sustain its military budgets yet we make the sacrifice the Boyz in Beijing cannot. It's fact anyway the CCP Party-Government has a much greater budget for internal control and domestic "security" than for its armed forces that are owned and controlled by the Party.
I don't mean militarily inevitable. China will dominate by shear weight. Roughly 1/4 of the world's people are ethnically Chinese now. 30 years ago China accounted for about 2%of the world economy, today they're number two. And they're buying Africa- they have huge investments there, they're building infrastructure all over West Africa and they buy up huge tracts of land, operate them as collective farms and cut the politicians in on the profits.


"It is not lost on many African leaders that hardly 30 years ago China was in a similar place that they are now — a backwater country whose economy made up hardly two percent of global GDP. But over the past few decades China shocked the world in the way that it used infrastructure to propel economic growth, creating a high-speed rail network that now tops 29,000 kilometers, paving over 100,000 kilometers of new expressways, constructing over 100 new airports, and building no less than 3,500 new urban areas — which include 500 economic development zones and 1,000 city-level developments. Over this period of time, China’s GDP has grown more than 10-fold, ranking #2 in the world today."

Oil, cotton, manganese, rare earth minerals, China gets much out of Africa already and is expanding. And most of it is private, for-profit enterprise, though it usually overlaps the government agenda.
Hegemony doesn't necessarily come out the barrel of a gun anymore.
 
I don't mean militarily inevitable. China will dominate by shear weight. Roughly 1/4 of the world's people are ethnically Chinese now. 30 years ago China accounted for about 2%of the world economy, today they're number two. And they're buying Africa- they have huge investments there, they're building infrastructure all over West Africa and they buy up huge tracts of land, operate them as collective farms and cut the politicians in on the profits.


"It is not lost on many African leaders that hardly 30 years ago China was in a similar place that they are now — a backwater country whose economy made up hardly two percent of global GDP. But over the past few decades China shocked the world in the way that it used infrastructure to propel economic growth, creating a high-speed rail network that now tops 29,000 kilometers, paving over 100,000 kilometers of new expressways, constructing over 100 new airports, and building no less than 3,500 new urban areas — which include 500 economic development zones and 1,000 city-level developments. Over this period of time, China’s GDP has grown more than 10-fold, ranking #2 in the world today."

Oil, cotton, manganese, rare earth minerals, China gets much out of Africa already and is expanding. And most of it is private, for-profit enterprise, though it usually overlaps the government agenda.
Hegemony doesn't necessarily come out the barrel of a gun anymore.
In economics and finance, resources of many kind, the USA is competing against the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing in Africa and globally.

Biden has left in place Trump's crippling trade tariffs, sanctions and so on to include stopping Beijing's passion to use its stolen technology to become 5G tech dominant by 2025. Huawei, ZTE and the others remain deprived of chips and other indispensable parts for their products. U.S., Japan, Taiwan and others are developing 5G as the alternative and in Europe only Germany continues to be a holdout with the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing.

Plus I've posted internal Chinese weaknesses, burdens, serious problems of demographics, finance, economy, currency to many threads over many years to include some posts to this one so that the surrender monkeys can see with their own eyes how the CCP works so hard to convince you of their smooth, orderly, organized, harmonious, unstoppable and inevitable society, economy and civilization. I've posted here how the Silk Road / Belt & Road is a bust yet all that you guys see are the horrors of inevitable dominance you want to see in the Chinese and China.

The bottom line is that each and every dynasty has failed and this young and nervous CCP dynasty in their business suits and Florsheims will fail too. CCP and the Chinese people know this is their long and proven cycle of history, ie, rinse and repeat and self defeat. The Chinese always give more power to the ruler who's mucking up the works to begin with then proceeds to bring the whole edifice crashing down.
 
In economics and finance, resources of many kind, the USA is competing against the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing in Africa and globally.

Biden has left in place Trump's crippling trade tariffs, sanctions and so on to include stopping Beijing's passion to use its stolen technology to become 5G tech dominant by 2025. Huawei, ZTE and the others remain deprived of chips and other indispensable parts for their products. U.S., Japan, Taiwan and others are developing 5G as the alternative and in Europe only Germany continues to be a holdout with the CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing.

Plus I've posted internal Chinese weaknesses, burdens, serious problems of demographics, finance, economy, currency to many threads over many years to include some posts to this one so that the surrender monkeys can see with their own eyes how the CCP works so hard to convince you of their smooth, orderly, organized, harmonious, unstoppable and inevitable society, economy and civilization. I've posted here how the Silk Road / Belt & Road is a bust yet all that you guys see are the horrors of inevitable dominance you want to see in the Chinese and China.

The bottom line is that each and every dynasty has failed and this young and nervous CCP dynasty in their business suits and Florsheims will fail too. CCP and the Chinese people know this is their long and proven cycle of history, ie, rinse and repeat and self defeat. The Chinese always give more power to the ruler who's mucking up the works to begin with then proceeds to bring the whole edifice crashing down.
China hasn't been crippled by tariffs. Quite the contrary, It's economy has set growth records since it slumped two years ago.

17747.jpeg
All dynasty fail, yes, but it might be awhile before this one does.


"In 2021, China’s trade recovery from the crisis has bested most other countries—in Q1 2021, its exports grew by almost 50% compared to the previous year’s quarter, to around $710 billion."

China accounts for over 14% of the exports in the world, the USA is #2 at just over 8%.
 
There was no genocide against African Americans, no matter how many times you repeat the question. Mexican-Americans faced discrimination, yes, but they didn’t face “genocide” either. And, quite frankly, most of the land the United States had taken had already been stolen from its rightful inhabitants in the first place years— even centuries— earlier. Which raises the question, of course, of how much of this is people complaining about the US “kidnapping what they’d rightfully stolen”, to quote the Princess Bride.

Even if we ONLY look at the ongoing genocide in Xinjiang, the Chinese government’s abuses still dwarf those of the US.

No, slavery was not genocide. There was no effort to wipe out African American culture and no effort to systematically destroy the African American community. I get that you are desperate, but you should really learn what qualifies as genocide before you start throwing the term around.

You aren’t interested in “preventing human rights abuses globally”; you can’t even face the fact that there’s a genocide ongoing in Xinjiang. What you ARE interested in is engaging in whataboutism to provide support for the People’s Republic of China.

Yes, there is no strong historical evidence to support the idea of any sort of deliberate spread. As I said before. Engaging in hypotheticals does not change the fact you can’t declare the deaths from smallpox to be “genocide”

Genocide is not always mass killing.


Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Americans almost certainly did one or more of these things to Africans. Specifically the first and last item.
 
I fear our military's (poor leadership) incompetence more than China's buildup.
You ain't seen incompetent military leadership until your look at the Communist Party generals in China, to include of course the admirals. Officers don't need to join the party until they're up for colonel or O-6 equivalent there to the U.S. rank in grade. Then to get stars they need to pay an arm and a leg and toe the party line because PLA belongs to the Party and the oath is to the Party only.

Moreover the CCP generals and admirals hate Xi Jinping because he wants 'em to learn the warfare tactics, strategy, ops of the United States military. They hate it because it's not the Chinese way and because they can't do what U.S. commanders are educated and trained to do. So in exercises they keep failing trying to do it the American military way and Xi keeps hollering at 'em and firing 'em because they can't do it and they fail.

There have been two unsuccessful military coup attempts against Xi up to now because he insists the Chinese commanders do what they can't do, ie, fight the way we Americans fight. The Party military brass want it back to the Chinese way which is bad news too because there is no Chinese way to successful modern 21st century advanced world class warfare.

U.S. military leadership is more than up to snuff btw. After the generals failed us in VN big changes were made as we saw in Desert Storm and since in major offensive military ops land, air, sea. Russian military commanders have become very good since WW II and wouldn't waste their time connecting with the Beijing Party controlled armed forces that belong to the Party only.
 
China hasn't been crippled by tariffs. Quite the contrary, It's economy has set growth records since it slumped two years ago.

View attachment 67338844
All dynasty fail, yes, but it might be awhile before this one does.


"In 2021, China’s trade recovery from the crisis has bested most other countries—in Q1 2021, its exports grew by almost 50% compared to the previous year’s quarter, to around $710 billion."

China accounts for over 14% of the exports in the world, the USA is #2 at just over 8%.

Virtually everyone's economy is growing on the upswing out of Covid.

Western estimates are that 40% of the China GDP is in the "shadow economy" that no one knows the actual amount of. That is, "shadow banking."

The Party-Government owns and operates all the banks and the state banks can lend only to state corporations. Private corporations and businesses have to borrow and pay in the shadow economy that is unregulated and has no filings with the Party-Government. No one knows the numbers involved in shadow banking so Western banks and investment houses estimate how much of Chinese GDP occurs in the shadow economy.

They reckon 40% of total GDP.

It's also comical how the CCP figures GDP.

Beijing and the Party's Personal Bank -- the People's Bank of China -- figure national GDP each year and they laughingly have it all done by mid January which is really a knee slapper.

However, each province Party-Government figures its provincial GDP and reports it to Beijing. When all the provincial GDP data is reported to Beijing and they in Beijing look at their own national numbers the difference is in trillions -- lots of trillions.

Beijing's central national GDP and the aggregate total of all the provincial GDP numbers never square and are almost always way out of whack. So the Boyz in Beijing split the difference and announce the final official number.

When the current Prime Minister Li Kejiang who is English fluent and a lawyer was governor of Lioning province in 2007 he advised the U.S. ambassador that Chinese GDP data are "man made." He did that tongue in cheek serious to advise Western bankers and government treasury officials from early on that the data and numbers out of China are fake and to take 'em accordingly.

Like it or not.
 
It sounds like you are flailing about yet again because you are outraged anyone would hold the CPC accountable for the genocide they are committing.

You being horrified that the US won’t let brutal dictators gas their own people with impunity is as pathetic as ever.

But hey, way to confirm, once again, that you couldn’t care less about victims of the ongoing genocide in Xinjiang.
Your shtick is old. You're not a serious commenter.
 
China Fanboyz have the doctrinal answer to everything.

Instantly besides.

And with confidence and certainty.

"Man made" as the whole of it is and always is.
 
It sounds like you are flailing about yet again because you are outraged anyone would hold the CPC accountable for the genocide they are committing.

You being horrified that the US won’t let brutal dictators gas their own people with impunity is as pathetic as ever.

But hey, way to confirm, once again, that you couldn’t care less about victims of the ongoing genocide in Xinjiang.

Once the China Fanboyz run through all the standard and approved doctrinal answers they have to call it quits.

They get dismissive.

And move away.
 
Seems like people prefer to ignore growing military threats in favor of dithering over things like climate change.
This is likely because they feel that man controlled the climate in a bad way so they can now control it in a good way.
In both cases people give mankind too much credit for control.
This is likely why they feel they can control microorganisms like the COVID virus.
Sorry but nature still trumps human beings.
Military threats however can be dealt with if there is a political will and acceptance of the threat.
People ignored the military threat of the Nazis as well.
Nothing new here.
"Nothing new here" applies to you and the people calling for the same military shit that hasn't worked, which is how we end up with extreme cases like the Holocaust. You're stuck in previous eras' mentalities. You'd rather risk destroying the habitability of the planet instead of trying to come up with solutions for the current era.

We don't think we control the climate, good or bad.
 
Once the China Fanboyz run through all the standard and approved doctrinal answers they have to call it quits.

They get dismissive.

And move away.
"China Fanboyz." Your commentary's worse than his.
 
China Fanboyz have the doctrinal answer to everything.

Instantly besides.

And with confidence and certainty.

"Man made" as the whole of it is and always is.
China Fanboyz. Right.
Sure misread this one, didn't I.
 
China Fanboyz. Right.
Sure misread this one, didn't I.

I don't think you and I are that far apart politically.

It's just that when someone says China you're but one who's quick to throw both hands up high in the air.

And I take it upon myself to point out all the fakery the Boyz in Beijing are and put out 24/7/365.
 
Your shtick is old. You're not a serious commenter.

You can’t even bring yourself to face the fact that China’s committing genocide yet somehow expect anyone to take you seriously when you pretend to care about “human rights abuses”.
 
I don't think you and I are that far apart politically.

It's just that when someone says China you're but one who's quick to throw both hands up high in the air.

And I take it upon myself to point out all the fakery the Boyz in Beijing are and put out 24/7/365.
I doubt that anyone can tell what your political positions are. My guess is that the progressive label you've chosen for your 'political leaning' is incorrect.
 
You can’t even bring yourself to face the fact that China’s committing genocide yet somehow expect anyone to take you seriously when you pretend to care about “human rights abuses”.
You still don't understand the usage of 'alleged.'
 
There was no systematic effort to wipe out African Americans, either by murdering them or by destroying their culture.
ONLY because they were valuable property that made people wealthy. Was their culture respected? Hell no. They were taken from their culture declared subhuman and turned into slaves by inhumane people. While the term 'genocide' does bring up thoughts of massive amounts of murder, that's not the only characteristic. Has the Chinese government committed massive amounts of murder on the Uhygur people? As far as we know, no. Are the Uhygur people being mistreated worse than the chattel slaves were? I don't think so.
 
I doubt that anyone can tell what your political positions are. My guess is that the progressive label you've chosen for your 'political leaning' is incorrect.

You're easily confused so I'll just say I've always liked the late Sen. Henry Jackson of Washington State who was a Democrat and Cold Warrior and a domestic liberal.

I was a Cold Warrior and a domestic liberal yet now I'm combatting American Republicans, Conservatives, Libertarian Rightists each of whom has become what we fought against successfully throughout the 20th century to defeat. My father and uncles fought fascism in The Big One and my mother did USN torpedo firing mechanisms (which became quite the headache for a while there).

So I'm a post yuppie Progressive instead of being a soft as a grape liberal bleeding heart, luv 'em all as I still do. I myself recall many peers such as yourself back in the day, ie, those who know it all while still having a lot to learn.
 
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