• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How large a threat do you view China?

Antiwar

Green Party progressive
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
20,657
Reaction score
3,865
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Progressive
You have consistently tried to deny the facts about the ongoing genocide, yes.
Quote me denying it. You just refuse to or can't understand the word 'alleged' and/or you're trolling.
 

Surrealistik

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
8,379
Reaction score
3,981
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
You forgot to add "shitty white progressives". 🤣
You know the kind, like Glenn Greenwald and Jimmy Dore?

"The best part of being a shitty white male "progressive" is never admitting you were wrong.
When Greenwald finally says he's voting for a Republican, all of his little shitty white "progressive" fanboys are going to both blame us for "forcing" Greenwald to do it and say it's not really wrong because something something "Democrats are just as bad" blablabla."
(hat tip to Justin Rosario)
Jimmy Dore is extremely odious, and Glenn Greenwald while not quite as bad has definitely had more than his share of objectionable moments lately.

But while I don't agree with their bad behaviour, there is more than some justification for it; they're right about the fundamental complaint of both parties having a serious issue with de facto corruption even if Republicans are clearly worse. I think it's possible to acknowledge the valid reasons for their discontent while simultaneously censuring and distancing from them for going too far, and a mistake to dismiss them entirely; what's motivating them is the same thing motivating AOC, Sanders, their still burgeoning grassroots, and the overriding (and correct) sense among Americans that something is deeply wrong and unjust about how power is parceled in Washington (which is moreover validated and all but proven by academic studies).

After all, Joe Manchin, our present leading obstacle to progress, literally just got caught suggesting his billionaire megadonors bribe a Republican with appointments in order to get him onside with one of his weaksauce compromises so he could stop being embarrassed for his absurd and fruitless naivety/corrupt insistence on bipartisanship.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
52,028
Reaction score
14,241
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Quote me denying it. You just refuse to or can't understand the word 'alleged' and/or you're trolling.

Your desperate shrieks of “alleged” over and over, when things have moved onto far more concrete ground. It’s not “allegations” at this point. We know the genocide is happening. That fact hurting your feelings doesn’t change it.
 

Tangmo

Army Veteran
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
20,483
Reaction score
4,681
Location
Fascist Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Your commentary is getting worse.

You are the CCP Chauffer by giving the DictatorTyrants in Beijing a free ride each and every time while spending all your time and efforts against the United States.

So I remind you I am committed to defending the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

You are both.
 

Antiwar

Green Party progressive
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
20,657
Reaction score
3,865
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Progressive
Kindly get back to me when you can be coherent, make some sense and be comprehensible thx

I'm not optimistic about it btw.

So whatever, anything you once had is lost and gone as you repeatedly make no sense at all, sorry to say.

I recall when you used to be good among us.

No more.

Sad and I hope you can recover and come back to us.
That #219 comment by @Checkerboard Strangler was likely an attempt to troll me. If someone's not as conservative as he is, then they're Dore or Greenwald.

@Surrealistik
 

Tangmo

Army Veteran
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
20,483
Reaction score
4,681
Location
Fascist Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
There's your problem, you're a US government/militarism "fanboy."

That's not your original term.

You are stealing the original use of the term from moi.

Which makes you a thief besides. A plagiarist.

It's no surprise however given you are a CCP-PRC Fanboy entirely, completely and throughout the thread in your every single post to include all of 'em.
 

Antiwar

Green Party progressive
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
20,657
Reaction score
3,865
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Progressive
Your desperate shrieks of “alleged” over and over, when things have moved onto far more concrete ground. It’s not “allegations” at this point. We know the genocide is happening. That fact hurting your feelings doesn’t change it.
You've proved that you don't understand 'alleged.'

You haven't backed up your claim by quoting me denying genocide.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
52,028
Reaction score
14,241
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You've proved that you don't understand 'alleged.'

You haven't backed up your claim by quoting me denying genocide.

You’ve proved that you can’t bring yourself to face the fact that China is committing genocide.....over and over and over again.

It’s happening, no matter how much that hurts your feelings.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

Meat with eyes!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
56,695
Reaction score
38,354
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
That #219 comment by @Checkerboard Strangler was likely an attempt to troll me. If someone's not as conservative as he is, then they're Dore or Greenwald.

@Surrealistik

Excuse me, if I wanted to say something like that I'd say @Antiwar seems to be a shitty white progressive in the mold of Glenn Greenwald or Jimmy Dore.
I know how to use a keyboard and I know how to spell your handle.
Maybe it's more a case of my post striking a nerve.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

Meat with eyes!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
56,695
Reaction score
38,354
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Jimmy Dore is extremely odious, and Glenn Greenwald while not quite as bad has definitely had more than his share of objectionable moments lately.

But while I don't agree with their bad behaviour, there is more than some justification for it; they're right about the fundamental complaint of both parties having a serious issue with de facto corruption even if Republicans are clearly worse. I think it's possible to acknowledge the valid reasons for their discontent while simultaneously censuring and distancing from them for going too far, and a mistake to dismiss them entirely; what's motivating them is the same thing motivating AOC, Sanders, their still burgeoning grassroots, and the overriding (and correct) sense among Americans that something is deeply wrong and unjust about how power is parceled in Washington (which is moreover validated and all but proven by academic studies).

After all, Joe Manchin, our present leading obstacle to progress, literally just got caught suggesting his billionaire megadonors bribe a Republican with appointments in order to get him onside with one of his weaksauce compromises so he could stop being embarrassed for his absurd and fruitless naivety/corrupt insistence on bipartisanship.
Love it but it doesn't change the fact that Greenwald et al are just fine with empowering Trump and Trumplandia and then excusing themselves by blaming their actions on Democrats. I have no issue with holding Dem feet to the fire but at the same time, that's not the same thing as suggesting Dems are "the same/worse than" Trump.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
52,028
Reaction score
14,241
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
On a side note, both Dore and Greenwald are morons.
 

Surrealistik

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
8,379
Reaction score
3,981
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Love it but it doesn't change the fact that Greenwald et al are just fine with empowering Trump and Trumplandia and then excusing themselves by blaming their actions on Democrats. I have no issue with holding Dem feet to the fire but at the same time, that's not the same thing as suggesting Dems are "the same/worse than" Trump.
I don't disagree; they go too far, especially Dore who I used to like before he devolved into a ravening loon and a Putin apologist (as in, he literally cannot accept a criticism of Putin without throwing up American whataboutisms) at some point.
 

Tangmo

Army Veteran
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
20,483
Reaction score
4,681
Location
Fascist Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Quote me denying it.

I take it they allow you to have a cellphone down there in Purgatory.

It's where you've been put due to this matter and your dedicated waffling. Unrelenting actually.

You got off lightly as almost all CCP Chinese go straight to Hell.

Lotsa roasted nuts down there year round. China forever eh.
 

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
50,136
Reaction score
32,921
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
There was no systematic effort to wipe out African Americans, either by murdering them or by destroying their culture.

Not everything is genocide.

Your deflection is dismissed. Reread what I said.
 

jbi

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
421
Reaction score
56
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Not much of one, to be honest.

There are several problems with China ever becoming a real threat to the US.

First of all, they have almost no ability to project power. Now granted, on land and to nations they directly connect to they are a serious threat. But they lack the ability to project that power onto any nation that they do not share a border with. And no matter how big their army is, it does not do much good if they can only invade other nations by land.

Secondly, they are very poor at designing their own equipment. For almost everything, they rely upon taking things other nations have built and copying them. Most of their aircraft and ships are literally modifications of old Soviet designs. And they could not even build their own aircraft carrier, once again they bought old Soviet ones. And laughingly, ships that not even the Soviets called "Aircraft Carriers". Their very design (then and now) is called a "Aircraft Carrying Heavy Missile Cruiser". The number and purpose of the aircraft is not to conduct strike missions, but to give the ship some air defense capability. This is why it carries only 26 fighters, where as the USS Nimitz carries 64 (130 if needed with half of that needing to land on a ground base).

And finally, they are entirely dependent upon foreign trade, both for raw materials, food, and the designs of the very things they make for other nations. And aggressive actions on their part would likely see huge parts of the world start an immediate boycott, and their economy would collapse. In face, if they even did a recreation of Tiananmen Square, the same thing would likely happen. The only reason that was not such a big deal is that exports had yet become a major part of their economy. If it was to happen today, it would kill them.

Then finally, there is logistics. The PLAAN (People's Liberation Army Navy) has very short "legs". They have no UNREP capability, have never conducted fleet exercises for more than a couple of weeks, and are even having problems keeping the small number of ships they have active off of the Horn of Africa operating. Their "Navy" has never really been used as a Navy, even in training. It operates more like a heavily gunned Coast Guard than an actual navy. It does have some impressive ships, but without any experience in operating at sea for an extended period of time it is really not that much of a threat in an offensive way.

I have long considered China to be a "Paper Tiger". And their military R&D programs are littered with designs that they promised would be the "best in the world", only to see them scrapped a few years later as they move on to something else altogether. Or shout that some other piece of equipment is the "best in the world", even though it has never actually been fully tested.

Some fair points and some outdated ones.

China's biggest strength is also it's largest weakness, it's integration with the global economy. Essentially it boils down to boycotting business that manufacture in China while encouraging your local elected officials to press government into reducing trade with that nation.

The problem is, most folk in the west think of China as "just another country" and are utterly ignorant to Chinese mindset and philosophy.

From a military perspective China is catching up quickly. There is no problem that numbers and money wont solve. China has both of these.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
52,028
Reaction score
14,241
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Your deflection is dismissed. Reread what I said.

You claimed that Americans “certainly did the first and last”.

The “first and last” were “killing members of a group”— which, by itself, is not “genocide”; and “forcibly transferring children— as part of an effort to wipe out a group’s culture— the latter of which did not happen.

Not to mention, of course, that no amount of blubbering “but....but....America!” excuses the genocide China is committing as we speak.
 

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
50,136
Reaction score
32,921
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
You claimed that Americans “certainly did the first and last”.

The “first and last” were “killing members of a group”— which, by itself, is not “genocide”; and “forcibly transferring children— as part of an effort to wipe out a group’s culture— the latter of which did not happen.

Excuse me? Did you learn about the slave trade when you were a kid? Or slave auctions, which forced families apart?

Not to mention, of course, that no amount of blubbering “but....but....America!” excuses the genocide China is committing as we speak.

Neither does it excuse ours.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
52,028
Reaction score
14,241
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Excuse me? Did you learn about the slave trade when you were a kid? Or slave auctions, which forced families apart?



Neither does it excuse ours.

Slave auctions were not a systematic attempt to destroy a culture, nor to wipe a group out. The same goes for slave auctions.


You really, really, REALLY wanting there to be an equivalence between the US and China....doesn’t mean one exists.
 

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
50,136
Reaction score
32,921
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Slave auctions were not a systematic attempt to destroy a culture, nor to wipe a group out. The same goes for slave auctions.


You really, really, REALLY wanting there to be an equivalence between the US and China....doesn’t mean one exists.

:LOL:

I laugh at your miserable failure at reading my mind. Got any more lies?
 

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
50,136
Reaction score
32,921
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I laugh at your inability to comprehend historical facts.

:ROFLMAO:

You were the one who derailed this thread into a pathetic game of psychic palm readings. Not me. You.

Now would you like to put away the tarot cards and get back to the discussion? ;)
 
Top Bottom