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How hybrids could be better than normal cars!(But aren't today)

R

rathi

Count Smackula
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The problem with the modern hybrid (I'm looking at you Prius) is that they are simply worse than a comparable gasoline powered car in most metrics. You can get better price, more speed, more space, lower weight and even better fuel efficiency (European diesel smart cars) if you pick the right vehicle. They have become the status symbol of "green people" rather than a truly pragmatic piece of technology.

The problem is in the overall design. All hybrids today have a normal combustion engine connected to the transmission as well as an electric motor and battery pack. This leads to a higher weight and cost to a normal automobile, making them undesirable on their technical merits.

However, its not required that hybrids be built that way. The better solution is to have individual electric motors connected to each wheel, no transmission, a battery and a small combustion engine optimized as a generator. This gives the primary benefits of both gas (energy dense fuel) and electric (superior engines). This is how diesel electric trains work, and the proposed Chevy volt would use a similar system.

Next post will examine the advantages of this set up more in depth.
 
But it's the battery that is the end problem.
 
Electrics Motors: Powered by an electric motor in each drive wheel, the car will have dramatically superior torque to a gasoline engine, allowing for faster acceleration. Furthermore, the maintenance footprint is very low and allows for regenerative breaking.

Battery: The battery is modular and used to meet the needs and wants of the customer. The smallest battery would simply act as a buffer for the battery, adding little weight or cost, but would require the generator to always be in operation. Larger batteries would be used to allow for electric only operation, allowing for zero-emission driving for short ranges, but adding to weight and cost.

Generator: The generator doesn't actually power the car, but simply charges the battery. This allows for a much smaller engine with much greater fuel efficiency. Ideally a gas turbine would be used for its low weight, low pollution and good fuel efficiency, but no reasonably sized turbines are currently in production. The current option would be to use a de-tuned engine from a smart car or motor-cycle running at optimum fuel efficiency.

No transmission: The motor controllers on the electric motors replace the transmission, saving in weight, cost and complexity.

Next post is looking at the whole vehicle put together.
 
Overall benefits:

Higher fuel efficiency: The optimized generator, lack of idling, and regenerative breaking give the design more range out of every gallon, most notable for city driving.

Higher acceleration: The torque curve of electric motors gives you absurd low end power, allowing for exceptionally fast 0 to 60 times.

Weight: The weight will be comparable to a similar gasoline vehicle, being lighter if the smaller battery is used and heavier if a larger battery is chosen.

Overall Disadvantages:

Conversion: You loose some energy converting energy from your generator to your battery.

Cost: Like all new technology, you have to pay for original design work and use more rare parts. However, if full scale production was introduced, costs would probably equalize.

--------------------------------------------------

Closing notes. This design essentially has two styles of car.

The first is your everyday vehicle using a smaller battery, which requires the gasoline engine always be on to recharge it. It is like a normal car, except is has better fuel efficiency and faster acceleration.

The second is a hybrid with a large battery, which allows for short trips in which you never turn on the gasoline engine. It is more expensive and heavier, but allows for no pollution on your commute.
 
But it's the battery that is the end problem.
Click to expand...

Current batter technology is not a hindrance to this design. Gasoline is still used as the primary energy source, which means that batteries only need to provide a small amount of energy. The range you could drive using battery power alone won't be far, but that is the whole point in the hybrid design.
 
rathi said:
Current batter technology is not a hindrance to this design. Gasoline is still used as the primary energy source, which means that batteries only need to provide a small amount of energy. The range you could drive using battery power alone won't be far, but that is the whole point in the hybrid design.
Click to expand...

I meant the replacement costs. That's one of the big reasons I won't touch an electric or hybrid design right now.
 
I meant the replacement costs. That's one of the big reasons I won't touch an electric or hybrid design right now.
Click to expand...

You do bring up a good point.

The first design doesn't have a problem. It doesn't need high-capacity batteries, so you can use cheap deep cycle batteries with a capacitor based buffer. That allows for long term use, as well as cheap replacement.

The second design would require more frequent and expensive replacement which would hurt the cars long term value. The otherwise lower maintenance costs would offset this somewhat, but ultimately you have to pay extra if you want to drive zero-emissions.
 
rathi said:
You do bring up a good point.

The first design doesn't have a problem. It doesn't need high-capacity batteries, so you can use cheap deep cycle batteries with a capacitor based buffer. That allows for long term use, as well as cheap replacement.

The second design would require more frequent and expensive replacement which would hurt the cars long term value. The otherwise lower maintenance costs would offset this somewhat, but ultimately you have to pay extra if you want to drive zero-emissions.
Click to expand...

When electric vehicles can match the value, practicality and usefulness of traditional internal combustion engines, I will make the switch. I agree there is a lot of promise, but, the markets wont react well until the bugs are ironed out.
 
When electric vehicles can match the value, practicality and usefulness of traditional internal combustion engines, I will make the switch. I agree there is a lot of promise, but, the markets wont react well until the bugs are ironed out.
Click to expand...

I agree. The primary design premise behind this type of hybrid was to use parts that already exist today. It could easily be built right now if someone was interested in doing it. Now if only there was a car manufacturer (or 3) in dire straights looking for a breakout product to jump back into the game...;)
 
I'm looking out my window at about 6" of snow and temps in the mid-teens.

Have you ever used a battery-operated heater?
 
I'm looking out my window at about 6" of snow and temps in the mid-teens.

Have you ever used a battery-operated heater?
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Yes I have, I have used electric space heaters all over the place and they work just fine. Furthermore a hybrid has a functioning combustion engine, you can just vent the heat like you do in every car.
 
MrVicchio said:
When electric vehicles can match the value, practicality and usefulness of traditional internal combustion engines, I will make the switch. I agree there is a lot of promise, but, the markets wont react well until the bugs are ironed out.
Click to expand...
:shock:
Two times a day....Two times a day....

Just kidding. But it's nice to finally find something we can agree on. When the guys at Telsa motors resort to using computer batteries to power their car, you know something is wrong. And then there's this...
 
There's a concept electric Mini that has four in wheel motors. It can out accelerate a Ferrari :shock:
 
Wow, a thread I can agree with Vic on.
Current hybrids are an utter joke - completely crap.
YouTube - TOP GEAR _ Fuel Issue_BMW M3 VS TOYOTA PRIUS
Probably even more environmentally unfriendly than the typical ICE powered car.

Do the automakers who make them know this? Absolutely.
So why are they making them? Simple, transtion. The infrastructure for the ICE as well as the various components from OEM will take quite some time to switch from the current ICE to a completely electric car that is hybrid powered rather than the other way around.
So this is a transitional period for these automakers to while still staying on top, gradually shift their production "seemlessly" over to full on electric.
 
Just to shamelessly agree with everyone, I think a powerful, relatively cheap, efficient and clean automobile that uses an alternative fuel or some combination of alternative fuels is in our future. But it sure as hell ain't here yet. All we can do is keep pushing forward. When it happens, the market will respond quickly and powerfully.

EDIT: Perhaps we may even have several different formats reach a genuinely viable efficiency. You could get an electric car, or a fuel cell car, or a car that runs on rainbows and Janis Joplin songs for those real green types.
 
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SWM said:
Just to shamelessly agree with everyone, I think a powerful, relatively cheap, efficient and clean automobile that uses an alternative fuel or some combination of alternative fuels is in our future. But it sure as hell ain't here yet. All we can do is keep pushing forward. When it happens, the market will respond quickly and powerfully.

EDIT: Perhaps we may even have several different formats reach a genuinely viable efficiency. You could get an electric car, or a fuel cell car, or a car that runs on rainbows and Janis Joplin songs for those real green types.
Click to expand...

HEY! Don't you go smearing Janis...
 
My car runs on the powerr of my intelligence. I can't even get it out of the driveway. And I'm lucky if it even starts most days. :(
 
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