How does Europe and the UK fight this wave of extremism?[W:95]

[Chagos]

Which was proven wrong. So my point stands.

I don't mind.

 

[PoS]

I don't mind.

LOL youre a good sport. :mrgreen:

 

[Higgins86]

Which was proven wrong. So my point stands.


I guess they feel there's a sort of injustice being done with their people. Maybe the EU governments ought to listen to their minorities more.

Their people? How can an attacker from Tunisian descent relate to sufferings in the Middle East?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

A former French minister has said security in France is dangerously flawed and Europe has been too slow to make changes on borders and intelligence.Pierre Lellouche, who was on the parliamentary commission of inquiry into last year's Paris attacks, told presenter Mark Mardell that France had not yet properly understood it was at war.

The borders thing wouldn't have helped here as he was French Tunisian and intelligence was that he was a known petty criminal however some the recent attackers have had some minor dealings with police so it seems there needs to be a review of people who have that history.

 

[Serenity]

You can't blame an entire group but you can't ignore the fact that the threat is coming from one particular group of people. That's not to say you punish every Muslim but in order to try and solve this problem we must start at the source.

Like I said, I don't know the answers but saying that, one of the things I've been criticised for here at various times has been my stance on disagreeing strongly with allowing media outlets and social media platforms to spread their vile messages that target and attempt to recruit the vulnerable. This needs to stop.

I've consistently maintained that there is something everyone can do and it's quite simple. Stop sharing IS propaganda and campaign for an IS media blackout. By continually sharing their propoganda, you're playing right into IS hands. Their PR strategy has been effective and elaborate for months and it’s been a key part of their massive rise to global infamy. Their aim is to justify the unjustifiable and to terrorise and demoralise us ALONG with attempting to recruit the vulnerable. I don't understand why this is so easily overlooked as problematic.

Then there was this post about Haleema. It is beyond insane that this nutjob is given a platform by anyone and yet there were those that disagreed with my view on that.

The interviewer was Liz Hayes from 60 minutes, Australia. I'm Australian, and I've got no intention of watching this or any interview that 60 minutes choose to air in the future. I'm well aware of what goes on in the world without watching their garbage. I was a viewer up until recently until they aired a story titled "Preacher of Hate." It was about a radicalised online recruiter named Abu Haleema who resides in London and who spreads his online message of hate and propoganda to a wide audience with a specific aim to recruit the naive, stupid and vulnerable to carry out acts of terrorism and support terrorist activities.

They interviewed him fairly extensively and his hateful views were promoted by giving him 25 minutes of prime air time here. He should never have been given a platform to begin with and those idiots chose to give him one. Irresponsible journalism at it's finest.

 

[Chagos]

Their people? How can an attacker from Tunisian descent relate to sufferings in the Middle East?

As I pointed out, don't go looking for "rational".

 

[Chagos]

like i said, i don't know the answers but saying that, one of the things i've been criticised for here at various times has been my stance on disagreeing strongly with allowing media outlets and social media platforms to spread their vile messages that target and attempt to recruit the vulnerable. This needs to stop.

I've consistently maintained that there is something everyone can do and it's quite simple. Stop sharing is propaganda and campaign for an is media blackout. By continually sharing their propoganda, you're playing right into is hands. Their pr strategy has been effective and elaborate for months and it’s been a key part of their massive rise to global infamy. Their aim is to justify the unjustifiable and to terrorise and demoralise us along with attempting to recruit the vulnerable. I don't understand why this is so easily overlooked as problematic.

Then there was this post about haleema. It is beyond insane that this nutjob is given a platform by anyone and yet there were those that disagreed with my view on that.

this

bears

repeating

!!!!

 

[Manc Skipper]

Yet these attackers live, work, pay taxes in Western countries and enjoy what comes with that. Extremely Hypocritical don't you think?

If hypocrisy is the worst thing about them, resolving it should be easy to deal with.

 

[calamity]

laughing and bombing, no matter if it helpes - you have the best solutions mate

if you were on the edge to become a ****ing terrorist, and you see your comrades bombed, you would surely stop all that thoughts and become a nice guy to the west...

before spreading the Internet with dump bull**** - try thinking

How is being nice to them working out for France? Or, your country, for that matter?

 

[calamity]

Just to be clear here, are you advocating for the Saudi's to be nuked?

not seriously. but it sounds good right now,

 

[longview]

This thread is for discussion purposes only ( obviously).

How does Europe/the UK overcome this new threat to our society? The attacks are becoming more frequent, the political atmosphere is becoming more divided and the resentment on all sides grows. What can be done in order to stop this spreading more?

- Do the authorities need to take a leaf out of the Israeli’s book and engage in more racial profiling?
- Do we need to tighten our security at all major gatherings now?
- Should be increase our policing in Muslims areas?
- Do we give our intelligence agencies more power to raid mosques, Muslim areas etc?
- Do we increase our presence in Syria?
- Do we limit immigration?
On the Flipside

- Do we scale back policing in Muslims areas? Is this increased presence causing more issues within these communities?
- Do are governments need to do more to provide jobs, better housing in the inner cities and therefore stopping these “ghettos” from springing up.
- Do we need to work more closely with Muslim leaders to find out what is causing these issues?

What do you think? Do you have any thoughts on what I have posted or any other suggestions? What action do you think the French, Belgium etc governments should be taking?

When approaching a complex problem, sometimes it helps to look at the boundaries of the choices available.
For the problem of Islamic Terrorist, the simple low end boundary is to do nothing, and accept the losses.
the upper end of the boundary is for the nations to declare that Islam is not a religion, but a political ideology
with a religious component. Like Saudi Arabia does for Christians, privately it can be practiced,
but no houses of worship may not be built.

 

[Higgins86]

Like I said, I don't know the answers but saying that, one of the things I've been criticised for here at various times has been my stance on disagreeing strongly with allowing media outlets and social media platforms to spread their vile messages that target and attempt to recruit the vulnerable. This needs to stop.

I've consistently maintained that there is something everyone can do and it's quite simple. Stop sharing IS propaganda and campaign for an IS media blackout. By continually sharing their propoganda, you're playing right into IS hands. Their PR strategy has been effective and elaborate for months and it’s been a key part of their massive rise to global infamy. Their aim is to justify the unjustifiable and to terrorise and demoralise us ALONG with attempting to recruit the vulnerable. I don't understand why this is so easily overlooked as problematic.

Then there was this post about Haleema. It is beyond insane that this nutjob is given a platform by anyone and yet there were those that disagreed with my view on that.

I agree on the propaganda issue but I don't see us solving that problem anytime soon. We live in a society that craves to see more and seems to be unaffected by things that previous generations would of never dreamed of looking at.
Look at last night, Live leaks views skyrocketed as people logged on to see the true gruesome details of the attack. People tweet photos of bodies before they have been identified and the news networks feeds this craze.

The things that young people are able to view online is to me one of the main issues we are facing.

 

[Higgins86]

When approaching a complex problem, sometimes it helps to look at the boundaries of the choices available.
For the problem of Islamic Terrorist, the simple low end boundary is to do nothing, and accept the losses.
the upper end of the boundary is for the nations to declare that Islam is not a religion, but a political ideology
with a religious component. Like Saudi Arabia does for Christians, privately it can be practiced,
but no houses of worship may not be built.

Why not do that for all religions?

 

[PoS]

Their people? How can an attacker from Tunisian descent relate to sufferings in the Middle East?

Muslims have considered themselves as one people regardless of language, nationality or skin color, that's been obvious for awhile now.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

I liked the Italian response to the Paris atack. Spend one billion on security and one billion on cultural program.

“What happened in Paris signaled a step-up in the cultural battle that we are living,” Renzi said. “They imagine terror, we answer with culture. They destroy statues, we love art. They destroy books, we are the country of libraries.”

Renzi: Italy Should Fight Terrorism with Culture After Paris

That at the same time we fight terrorism we have to build our society stronger and more united and inclusive. Also remembering that the threath is not only coming from muslim terroristsbut also right wing terrorists. You have for example killing of Jo Cox and Anders Behring Breivik that killed almost 80 people in Norway.

Also we in the Western world need to start caring about democracy and peace in the rest of the world instead of only short time profit and strategic alliances. For example after decades of close relationship between Western countries and Saudi Arabia the country is still one of the worlds most brutale dictatorship. That at the same Saudi Arabia is one of the worlds biggest sponsors of terrorism and fundamentalism and also help to crush peaceful demonstration in Bahrain. After the crushing of the demonstration Bahrain can now both enjoying having their own F1 race and also be the home of the United States Fifth Fleet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahraini_protests_of_2011

It is also scary that Saudi Arabia now have the third biggest military expenditures in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

 

[PeteEU]

This thread is for discussion purposes only ( obviously).

How does Europe/the UK overcome this new threat to our society? The attacks are becoming more frequent, the political atmosphere is becoming more divided and the resentment on all sides grows. What can be done in order to stop this spreading more?

Tricky as hell.

- Do the authorities need to take a leaf out of the Israeli’s book and engage in more racial profiling?

Hell no, unless you absolutely want to live in a police state.

- Do we need to tighten our security at all major gatherings now?

Should be automatic. Muslim terrorists are hardly the only ones out there who want to harm large public gatherings in one way or another.

- Should be increase our policing in Muslims areas?

Sure if you want to make more terrorists..

- Do we give our intelligence agencies more power to raid mosques, Muslim areas etc?

Sure if you want to make more terrorists.

- Do we increase our presence in Syria?

Sure if you want to make even MORE terrorists.

- Do we limit immigration?

It is almost non existent in most countries.

It is a tricky problem to tackle, as long as our meddling in the affairs of Muslim countries continues and our often blind support of Israel continues. Without changes in those 2, then there is only so much we can do, especially with the anti-Muslim sentiment that is clearly being pushed by some politicians and media in the west. This sentiment creates an atmosphere of fear and actually marginalizes the muslim populations, which causes animosity and is hence a rich breeding ground for more home grown nutjobs that commit terror.

But some simple things that could be done would be the following.

1) Put into law a ban on travelling to war zones without permission from the state. If you do, and return then you either go to jail for 10 years, or if a dual citizen.. lose your citizenship.
2) If a refugee goes on holiday "back home", then their refugee status is automatically revoked. To this day, we have people who came to Europe as refugees, who still are here, but travel back to their homeland on vacation.. and that includes places like freaking Somalia and Iraq. Pisses me off!.. not that it is exactly relevant
3) EU wide repatriation treaty system. Right now we have possibly millions of illegal immigrants and failed refugees we cant kick out because repatriation deals are bi-lateral between countries. This means if say Denmark wants to deport 30 Algerians, then that is relatively hard because of the deal Denmark is able to get with Algeria. However France has no problem because of its close ties, and certainly the mighty EU economic power house would be able to dictate that countries take back their citizens no questions asked.

 

[longview]

Why not do that for all religions?

Most of the worlds religions, do not include a complete political ideology,
that dictates almost every aspect of Human existence.

 

[Red_Dave]

This thread is for discussion purposes only ( obviously).

How does Europe/the UK overcome this new threat to our society? The attacks are becoming more frequent, the political atmosphere is becoming more divided and the resentment on all sides grows. What can be done in order to stop this spreading more?

- Do the authorities need to take a leaf out of the Israeli’s book and engage in more racial profiling?
- Do we need to tighten our security at all major gatherings now?
- Should be increase our policing in Muslims areas?
- Do we give our intelligence agencies more power to raid mosques, Muslim areas etc?
- Do we increase our presence in Syria?
- Do we limit immigration?
On the Flipside

- Do we scale back policing in Muslims areas? Is this increased presence causing more issues within these communities?
- Do are governments need to do more to provide jobs, better housing in the inner cities and therefore stopping these “ghettos” from springing up.
- Do we need to work more closely with Muslim leaders to find out what is causing these issues?

What do you think? Do you have any thoughts on what I have posted or any other suggestions? What action do you think the French, Belgium etc governments should be taking?

I would have thought that the profiling debate would have ended when Boston was attacked by someone who was so Caucasian he was actually born in the Caucasus. All in will mean is that a White British convert, an Albanian, Turkish, or Chinease Muslim will get be ignored by security while they are busy searching Syrian Christians, Indian Hindus or Saudi atheists.

 

[truthatallcost]

First, explain that "this has nothing to do with Islam which is a religion of peace". Second, declare that "Not all Muslims are terrorists". Third, crack down on Islamophobia by increasing the penalties for hate crimes; the definition of hate crime should be widened to include, for example, public drinking or eating by Kufars during the holy month of Ramadan.

You described what Europe is currently doing. The question was what, if anything, should Europe do differently.

 

[Sweden]

You described what Europe is currently doing. The question was what, if anything, should Europe do differently.

Here is something new: prohibit the sale of pig meat products in any store which is used, or maybe used, by Muslims. We need creative ways of combating Islamophobia - simply banning pork from all Swedish school menus and prohibiting the screening of Muppets films ( because of Miss *****) does not even begin to be enough.

 

[truthatallcost]

I would have thought that the profiling debate would have ended when Boston was attacked by someone who was so Caucasian he was actually born in the Caucasus. All in will mean is that a White British convert, an Albanian, Turkish, or Chinease Muslim will get be ignored by security while they are busy searching Syrian Christians, Indian Hindus or Saudi atheists.

While I know that white Muslim radicals exist, I don't think the mastermind of the Boston attack really fits the bill to the extent that you're implying:

 

[Red_Dave]

While I know that white Muslim radicals exist, I don't think the mastermind of the Boston attack really fits the bill to the extent that you're implying:

That guys lighter skinned then your average Spaniard or Italian. You think he had the headress and the Islamic flag in the background when he carried out the attack? Not to mention that many Arabs look whiter than many Europeans given the Greek influence etc. See Yassar Arafat for example.

 

[RetiredUSN]

The Euro's and the USA will continue fighting terrorists the same way they have been. Nothing will change until enough people get blown away to have eonough effect on the political parties in power at the time.

But until then, they will keep theirs heads up their azzes and hope for the best......while importing future terrorists at the same time.

 

[Higgins86]

So I have waited to post my own view until I read some other opions, but in a nutshell this is what I think has to happen.

- We need to grant our governments more power when it comes to accessing personal emails, phone calls, internet activity etc. This makes a lot of people uncomfortable but I think it’s the only real way to combat this growing online fanatical community.If you have nothing to hide why worry?
- We need to crackdown on sites like liveleak, reddit etc who allow videos of these attacks to be posted. All this does is spread the terror and allows at risk youth to be converted or begin the road to fundamentalism.
- We also need to limit how much time the media give radical religious figures. I don’t often hear about National front, BNP leaders etc so why is it I constantly read or watch stories about radical clerics.
- We need to work with the Islamic community especially its leaders. We need to have an open and frank discussion on what is going wrong and what we can do to help stop this recent wave of Islamic jihadists.
- In the same breath Muslim communities need to help themselves. Yes the majority of Muslims are peaceful, yes it’s not fair to group them together and yes it’s not fair to ask them to whistle blow. But you know what else isn’t fair? Getting run down by a lorry while you watch fireworks, being shot in a concert or being beheaded in a London suburb. We live in unfair times, we live in violent times and it’s time we all got a grip. It doesn’t matter how fair we are, how unified we are and it doesn’t matter how sorry we are. They are going to keep coming so we are going to have to make tough choices. If that choice means that Muslims are going to feel victimised in the short term then so be it. Because if we do nothing then the nationalists will gain more power in Europe and I can guarantee you that when that happens it will be a lot worse to be a European Muslim.
- I also think enough is enough with Iraq and Syria. We cannot leave this wound festering and expect peace in Europe. We need to go in with force and eliminate ISIS, we then have to work with the Syrians and Iraq’s in restoring some sort of order. We can no longer just sit on our hands because of what has happened in the past.

 

[truthatallcost]

So I have waited to post my own view until I read some other opions, but in a nutshell this is what I think has to happen.

- We need to grant our governments more power when it comes to accessing personal emails, phone calls, internet activity etc. This makes a lot of people uncomfortable but I think it’s the only real way to combat this growing online fanatical community.If you have nothing to hide why worry?
happened in the past.

More intrusive spying practices and useless data collection. None of which was necessary before our current immigration policies spiraled out of control.

We need to crackdown on sites like liveleak, reddit etc who allow videos of these attacks to be posted. All this does is spread the terror and allows at risk youth to be converted or begin the road to fundamentalism.

Censor freedom of speech, internet experience, just like China, so that we can attempt to control people's thoughts and actions? None of which was necessary before our current immigration policies spiraled out of control.

We also need to limit how much time the media give radical religious figures. I don’t often hear about National front, BNP leaders etc so why is it I constantly read or watch stories about radical clerics

More censorship. Why not just hand all media sources over to the government? Radical imams didn't preach death to their adoptive countries before our current immigration policies spiraled out of control.

We need to work with the Islamic community especially its leaders. We need to have an open and frank discussion on what is going wrong and what we can do to help stop this recent wave of Islamic jihadists.

Why aren't Islamic leaders doing everything in their power to combat extremism in their own communities? A few have tried, and have received death threats and been shunned by their own communities. 3,000 Muslims showed up to protest cartoon drawings of the prophet Muhammad in London last year, exactly 1 month after the Charlie Hebdo massacre, yet you couldn't find 3,000 Muslims in London willing to create a task force to combat extremism in their own people. This kind of behavior didn't exist before our current immigration policies spiraled out of control.

They are going to keep coming so we are going to have to make tough choices.

Yes, let's make the only tough choice that will have any meaningful effect and stop playing games with potential killers.