How do you Prevent Racism?

[Saboteur]

The racism term gets tossed around quite a bit here with people having varying subjective views as to who and why they think someone is a racist. Rather than rely on the uselss banter that exposes the individual fears of racism--why not try to prevent racism in the first place.

I've heard it starts with not teaching bigotry to your children. But not everybody adheres to that so other children will teach your children anyway.

My theory is that eventually as races mix more and more there will only be one race or at least very few members of the separate races.

Just a theory.

 

[Topsez]

I
In the sentence "America was built on Liberalism not Conservatism" I was implying that the thought and action of creating American was Liberal not Conservative. Unless you want to argue that it is conservative to break away from the current governing body and create a new sovereign nation?

Well, take a look at this link http://www.debatepolitics.com/churc...-judeo-christian-values-secular-values-9.html

If you look at the constitution minus bill of rights it was nothing more than conservatism... the adding of the bill of rights was not a liberal action but one that introduced rights of man absolute from a king or appointed king as the constitution would allow a president to be appointed by a group of his rich white friends... the bill of rights is not liberal it is religious philosophy determination that government cannot take away what god has given... That was my only point... Please read the entire post on the Chruch and state thread and join in on the debate there on the constitution.

I don't understand how the constitution came into this debate since at the time of the constitution was rattified white men were considered superior to women and black men... it was a period in time that was very differenty than now so serves no part of this debate.

Racism in 1779 in the eyes of the founders didn't exist... the constitution was first written in German and English there were language differences... most people in power had slaves and their wives were subordinate to them... it just doesn't factor into this debate in my opinion.

 

[Synch]

If the prerequisite is not to abolish/infringe civil liberties then the best approach is to retract any policies that might further racial tension assuming it doesn't damage the rights of the people from a rational prespective. Don't mention race, don't acknowledge its existence, and if segregative ways are adopted by various people/groups, eliminate such things as quietly as possible.

Or you could implement full-blown Socialism, where everyone is suffering so much from economic impoverishment that people wouldn't differentiate people by race or any other characteristic for that matter.

Fascism could work too, you wouldn't care make a reference about a person race in your mind, rather, "Is he, or is he not an undercover agent that will cripple the 456th coup d'etat attempt to date?". There'll be cameras everywhere...

"Is there a perverted state employee watching me have sex with this homeless man in an underground room somewhere?"

"Could that state employee be my wife?"

 

[talloulou]

Over time globalization will end racism though it might get worse before it gets better. Eventually most people will be "muts" and race will become a non-issue though as more and more people realize this is happening they may fight it and for that time period racism will be worse.

 

[Topsez]

Over time globalization will end racism though it might get worse before it gets better. Eventually most people will be "muts" and race will become a non-issue though as more and more people realize this is happening they may fight it and for that time period racism will be worse.

When two cultures collide there are always differences but it is the youth that sees beauty in a young girl or boy and they demand middle ground... I think this has been true throughout time... my great, great, greatmom was an American Indian on my mothers side... I grew up in a segragated town and was totally attracted to a oriental girl, the only oriental in the school, my best friend was from Syria and I didn't see reasons for him not being? There were no blacks but the intollerance for blacks would have excluded such friendships... but with time all is possible.

 

[taxedout]

How do you Prevent Racism?

Get rid of people.

 

[afr0byte]

There is no right in America that doesn't come from God... if you can prove different then I will ask for your forgiveness. Check out the other link since rewriting the proof is a waste of effort.

Well, to prove that, you'd have to prove that a god exists, which no one has ever been able to do. Admittedly, I can't say for sure that there isn't a god, but the burden of proof belongs to the believer.

 

[Topsez]

Well, to prove that, you'd have to prove that a god exists, which no one has ever been able to do. Admittedly, I can't say for sure that there isn't a god, but the burden of proof belongs to the believer.

The bill of rights is founded on religion philosophy... I follow the philosopher Epitetus and am not religious... If you like the bill of rights then you have to support those who created it and their beliefs in god since that is what they were based on. Radical thinking this beief in god but not knowing always causes me to call on him when I jumped out of airplanes and once when my son stopped breathing... I think a god just could exist but those different groups of religion twist the words in the bible to meet what they may want it to say... Yet, I do like the ideas contained in the bill of rights don't you?

 

[afr0byte]

The bill of rights is founded on religion philosophy... I follow the philosopher Epitetus and am not religious... If you like the bill of rights then you have to support those who created it and their beliefs in god since that is what they were based on. Radical thinking this beief in god but not knowing always causes me to call on him when I jumped out of airplanes and once when my son stopped breathing... I think a god just could exist but those different groups of religion twist the words in the bible to meet what they may want it to say... Yet, I do like the ideas contained in the bill of rights don't you?

I wasn't arguing whether the bill of rights was based on a particular religion. All I was saying is that you can't say that rights are given to use by a god if you can't prove that a god exists. Plus, I most certainly don't have to support their belief in a god.

 

[The Mark]

It is impossible to prevent racism, at least in my opinion.

Lessen it to almost nothing, maybe. Completely eliminate it? No.

There are, however, many forces throughout the USA currently working to increase racisim.

Unless they are somehow removed, there is no chance of even lowering the racisim level.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

The day I slip on anything other than a banana peel, would be the day that you started to make sense.

Come now, Kid, for someone who claims to be as intellectually powerful as you claim this is pretty pathetic. You are disappointing me, as I would have thought you would have responded with something better.

I thought that Whip had answered your questions on color blindness.

Please. Both you, Whip, and many others like you have either been unable or have refused to answer this rather simple question. Y'all use diversionary tactics, accuse me of having an agenda, become insulting, or ignore the question completely. How about trying something new: answer the question.

Can we both agree that our founding fathers had pride in and of their people of that time? If yes, and 100% of their people were White--then doesn't it make sense to believe they had White pride as well as American pride?

Yes, we can agree that our founding fathers had pride in and of their people of that time. No, it doesn't then make sense to believe they had white pride as well as Amercian Pride. This is a good example of the Non Sequitur ("It does not follow") logical fallacy. Just because our founding fathers skin color was white and they had pride in the nation/culture they were creating, it does not follow and there is no logical conclusion that they would then have pride in their skin color. Because of the mix of nationalities and ethnicities that make up American culture, hence American Pride, it is untrue that white pride must equal American Pride or vice versa. Again, a non sequitur.

Creating the perfect segregationalist race means creating an all inclusive mindset of culturalated Americans. So far, those willing to sacrifice their foreign nationalities, race, ethnicities to become all-Americans have simply been the White Priders.

You are mistaking race for nationality/culture, again. There is no 'American race'. Also, your entire premise of the American culture is poorly conceived. The American culture is not at a standstill; it is constantly growing and evolving. If it weren't, we would not be the greatest country that we are. Stagnation often brings on decay. The assimilation of those from foreign cultures makes us stronger and continues with the constructs that the founding fathers had intended for America. Many memebers of many ethnicities, races, and nationalites have become 'American'. Being American means assimilating into the mixed culture of melded foreign nationalities, ethnicities, and religions which creates the American culture. When white priders attack this concept of this assimilation of melded nationalities, ethnicities, and religions, they attack the very backbone of what American culture stands for and was created with. Those that do are anti-American.

Yes, America, Love it or Leave It! Btw, did those Hollywood elitist liberals that said they leave America for good if Bush were to win in 2000 and 2004...actually leave the country? Alec Baldwin for one comes to mind.

You see, when you say stuff like this, I'm sure you expect me to defend these liberals. I agree with their right (freedom of speech) to say what they want so long as it violates no laws. I also agree with you around the foolishness of their comments. If they said they'd leave if Bush became president, why didn't they? Hypocrits.

Nice try, but you know it has been me and the Conservatives here that have championed this pro-American issue all along.

The liberal vs. conservative issue around who is more pro-American is for another thread. As far as the context of this thread, when you can champion American Pride as you have outlined and as I have fed back to you, and can do it in front of white pride, which I have shown is not necessarily mutally inclusive of American Pride and which you have substantiated by your comments around race not mattering and around the importance of melded foreign nationalities assimilating to create American culture, then you may show that you are truly pro-American.

Its not the White priders that are refusing to become Americanized--its the foreign multiculturalists that refuse to accept our culture.

It is anyone that refuses to assimilate into this wounderful mixed culture of nationalities, ethniciities, races, and religions we call America. That includes white priders, black priders, Islamic jihadists, religious extremists/exclusionists, and anyone else that doesn't fit in with the above criteria.

You won't be talking to anyone soon that has more American pride then your truly.

Sorry, Kid, though you seem to be making some progress, you're not there, yet.

 

[taxedout]

Humans will always find reasons to hate and exploit each other.
Futile to think otherwise.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

Humans will always find reasons to hate and exploit each other.
Futile to think otherwise.

True; so apparently, according to ptsdkid, what we need to do is embrace and relish that hate, and in fact to build our entire society based on it. Because one's pride is founded on false "us/them" dichotomies and condescension and arrogance, right?

In reality, the futility of fighting hate doesn't excuse us from trying. We can attempt to decrease it, or more properly, to decrease the number of actions people take based on it. In other words, we can reduce exploitation, even if we can't reduce hate, and that, I think, should be our goal.

 

[ptsdkid]

True; so apparently, according to ptsdkid, what we need to do is embrace and relish that hate, and in fact to build our entire society based on it. Because one's pride is founded on false "us/them" dichotomies and condescension and arrogance, right?

***My message here has been to teach those who refuse to assimilate--to become Americans in accepting and exercising a new found American pride.

In reality, the futility of fighting hate doesn't excuse us from trying. We can attempt to decrease it, or more properly, to decrease the number of actions people take based on it. In other words, we can reduce exploitation, even if we can't reduce hate, and that, I think, should be our goal.

***I wouldn't say that these unassimilated peoples are exuding hate as much as they have stubbornly refused to drop their foreign cultures in lieu of an all encompassing American culture. I won't give up on these people if you don't.

 

[ptsdkid]

Humans will always find reasons to hate and exploit each other.
Futile to think otherwise.

***That statement reminds me of how the PTSD experts said there is no cure for PTSD. While racists will always find ways to hate and exploit others, we should not give up hope that they can be taught to mitigate their learned pernicious behavior.

Many PTSD victims are taught that there is no cure for their debility, but those willing to meet the challenge should not throw the towel in so fast. Creating a treatment plan (and staying with it) can and often does lead to a very healthy and viable lifestyle. For PTSDers, sometimes the only option to a committed treatment plan is suicide.

 

[ptsdkid]

Please. Both you, Whip, and many others like you have either been unable or have refused to answer this rather simple question. Y'all use diversionary tactics, accuse me of having an agenda, become insulting, or ignore the question completely. How about trying something new: answer the question.

***I'm being honest with you Capt--when I say I hadn't read the controversy between you and Whip. I do know that it has something to do with identifying a White person. Lets just say that for my interest here (and I'm not saying that your question isn't important)--that I just soon get back to the topic at hand--that being of how to prevent racism. After all, I am the one that started this thread. I'll leave it to you and Whip to iron out the minutia details. Show me a picture of yourself, Capt. I'll let you know what color you are without hesitation.



Yes, we can agree that our founding fathers had pride in and of their people of that time. No, it doesn't then make sense to believe they had white pride as well as Amercian Pride.


***OK, we weren't there when some of them like Tom Jefferson were having sex with their black slaves or maids. So we wouldn't know if they were proud of being White...in lieu of not wanting to look overly racist in the eyes of the few blacks of their time. So alleging that our founding fathers weren't prideful of their White race may very well remain a moot topic.


This is a good example of the Non Sequitur ("It does not follow") logical fallacy. Just because our founding fathers skin color was white and they had pride in the nation/culture they were creating, it does not follow and there is no logical conclusion that they would then have pride in their skin color. Because of the mix of nationalities and ethnicities that make up American culture, hence American Pride, it is untrue that white pride must equal American Pride or vice versa. Again, a non sequitur.

***This mix of nationalities and ethnicities you mention are all of White people--having the same or similar interests and backgrounds. So the topic here of American Pride between our founding fathers' does indeed reach a climatic sequitur.



You are mistaking race for nationality/culture, again. There is no 'American race'. Also, your entire premise of the American culture is poorly conceived. The American culture is not at a standstill; it is constantly growing and evolving.


***Where did I say that the American culture is at a standstill? I would like for you to show or tell me how these politically correct multiculturalists of today are evolving and growing into this American culture. We culturalated Americans are and have certainly evolved and grown despite the stagnating forces that try to hamper our efforts.


If it weren't, we would not be the greatest country that we are. Stagnation often brings on decay.

***Refer to my message above.

The assimilation of those from foreign cultures makes us stronger and continues with the constructs that the founding fathers had intended for America.

***I agree with that statement for those who have assimilated. Lets focus our attention on many of these unassimilated or illegal aliens that are currently dragging our culture into the toilet.

Many memebers of many ethnicities, races, and nationalites have become 'American'. Being American means assimilating into the mixed culture of melded foreign nationalities, ethnicities, and religions which creates the American culture.

***I couldn't agree more.

When white priders attack this concept of this assimilation of melded nationalities, ethnicities, and religions, they attack the very backbone of what American culture stands for and was created with. Those that do are anti-American.

**You see, this is where you have wandered off base. White Priders are not attacking the assimilation of melded anything. Many of these recent immigrants or illegals have no intention of melding into the American society. Therein lies the problem.



You see, when you say stuff like this, I'm sure you expect me to defend these liberals. I agree with their right (freedom of speech) to say what they want so long as it violates no laws. I also agree with you around the foolishness of their comments. If they said they'd leave if Bush became president, why didn't they? Hypocrits.

***You seem to be speaking my language here. Words do mean something. Are you listening Alec?



The liberal vs. conservative issue around who is more pro-American is for another thread. As far as the context of this thread, when you can champion American Pride as you have outlined and as I have fed back to you, and can do it in front of white pride, which I have shown is not necessarily mutally inclusive of American Pride and which you have substantiated by your comments around race not mattering and around the importance of melded foreign nationalities assimilating to create American culture, then you may show that you are truly pro-American.

***If White Pride isn't necessarily American pride--then I don't know what is. If a Puerto Rican living in Puerto Rico isn't proud of being a Puerto Rican--then I don't know who would be.


Sorry, Kid, though you seem to be making some progress, you're not there, yet.

***By slow progress, do you mean being less prideful as an American by getting to understand a multiculturalist's reluctance to become a full fledged American in lieu of their penchant to remain a foreigner?

 

[CoffeeSaint]

***I wouldn't say that these unassimilated peoples are exuding hate as much as they have stubbornly refused to drop their foreign cultures in lieu of an all encompassing American culture. I won't give up on these people if you don't.

Ah, your message of compassion and understanding brings a warmth to my heart.

No, wait -- sorry, I just had to throw up.

So let's try and take another tack on this. Can you describe what it means to you to assimilate into the American culture, and perhaps give an idea of what that American culture is? I know it includes following the laws and speaking English; is there anything else? Do you have to work, for instance? Do you have to pay taxes? Do you have to vote? Do you have to get married and have American children? Any particular kinds of pop culture you have to subscribe to, or avoid? Music, hobbies, etc.?
And since you have been very clear on your feelings that liberals are trying to destroy America, would you describe liberals as a group that has failed to assimilate into American culture?

 

[Billo_Really]

If we want to prevent racism, we must first stop being such an intolerant nation.

 

[ptsdkid]

If we want to prevent racism, we must first stop being such an intolerant nation.

***America an intolerant nation?...LOL! That was precious, Bilko. There are some nations that will execute you if you're found driving while under the influence. Name for me another country that takes in every kind of national immigrant known to mankind--besides America. Name another nation that spends as much money on the welfare of foreign countries--as does America. I'll realize that you were just joking with that statement, if I don't see another response from you on this issue.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

My message here has been to teach those who refuse to assimilate--to become Americans in accepting and exercising a new found American pride.

Ah, Kid, I coined the phrase American Pride. Don't forget to give me credit. I'll expect my residual check in the mail. :mrgreen:

Hmmm...I wonder how much money I can make on repeats...

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm being honest with you Capt--when I say I hadn't read the controversy between you and Whip. I do know that it has something to do with identifying a White person. Lets just say that for my interest here (and I'm not saying that your question isn't important)--that I just soon get back to the topic at hand--that being of how to prevent racism. After all, I am the one that started this thread. I'll leave it to you and Whip to iron out the minutia details. Show me a picture of yourself, Capt. I'll let you know what color you are without hesitation.

OK, fair enough...so long as the definition of 'white' doesn't become an issue. It seems as if your intention is to use it as a way to define skin color, which is fine by me...finally an answer!

OK, we weren't there when some of them like Tom Jefferson were having sex with their black slaves or maids. So we wouldn't know if they were proud of being White...in lieu of not wanting to look overly racist in the eyes of the few blacks of their time. So alleging that our founding fathers weren't prideful of their White race may very well remain a moot topic.

Gotcha. We seem to agree here. Let's move on.

This mix of nationalities and ethnicities you mention are all of White people--having the same or similar interests and backgrounds. So the topic here of American Pride between our founding fathers' does indeed reach a climatic sequitur.

Nope. Just because one happens (American Pride) doesn't mean that the other must occur (white pride) even if all of the founding father's skin was white. Hence the non-sequitur. Anyway I thought we move on from this.

Where did I say that the American culture is at a standstill? I would like for you to show or tell me how these politically correct multiculturalists of today are evolving and growing into this American culture. We culturalated Americans are and have certainly evolved and grown despite the stagnating forces that try to hamper our efforts.

You didn't say it. I was using it as a way to illustrate how the constant melding of assimilated cultures encourages American culture to grow and evolve. Sorry about the confusion. Also, I never said that multiculturalists are assisting in the growth of the American culture. I do not consider myself a multiculturalist (surprised?). Nor am I a classical assimilationist or nationalist, though I am probably closer to these than not. My postion is that ethnicities retaining some of their culture and traditions does not harm the American culture in general, as long as it is secondary to American culture and adds to it rather than opposes it. This 'adding' can, in fact, enhance and help to evolve our culture and society...as long as it becomes a part of the whole, not separate from it.

The following from Wkipedia (and many other sites) is pretty close to my beliefs:

There also exists a view that attempts to reconcile some of the differences between multiculturalists and nationalists. Proponents of this view propose that immigrants need not completely abandon their culture and traditions in order to reach the goal that the melting pot theory seeks. This reasoning relies on the assumption that immigrants can be persuaded to ultimately consider themselves a citizen of their new nation first and of their nation of birth second. In this way, they may still retain and practice all of their cultural traditions but "when push comes to shove" they will put their host nation's interests first. If this can be accomplished, immigrants will then avoid hindering the progress, unity and growth that assimilationsts argue are the positive results of the melting pot theory - while simultaneously appeasing some of the multiculturalists.


This compromised view also supports a strong stance on immigration, English as primary language in school with the option to study foreign languages. (A consensus on affirmative action does not currently exist.) Proponents of this compromise claim that the difference with this view and that of the assimilationists is that while their view of the melting pot essentially strips immigrants of their culture, the compromise allows immigrants to continue practicing and propagating their cultures from generation to generation and yet sustain and instill a love for their host country first and above all. Whether this kind of delicate balance between host and native countries among immigrants can be achieved remains to be seen.

The assimilation of those from foreign cultures makes us stronger and continues with the constructs that the founding fathers had intended for America.

I agree with that statement for those who have assimilated. Lets focus our attention on many of these unassimilated or illegal aliens that are currently dragging our culture into the toilet.

OK. It's nice to see we agree, again. And here may be another surprise to you. You and I probably have very similar views of illegal aliens.

Many memebers of many ethnicities, races, and nationalites have become 'American'. Being American means assimilating into the mixed culture of melded foreign nationalities, ethnicities, and religions which creates the American culture.

I couldn't agree more.

What is this?!!! CaptainCourtesy and ptsdkid agreeing, politcally, yet again?!!! :mrgreen:

You see, this is where you have wandered off base. White Priders are not attacking the assimilation of melded anything. Many of these recent immigrants or illegals have no intention of melding into the American society. Therein lies the problem.

This where we part company a bit. I, too, have a problem with immigrants and illegals refusing to assimilate in the way that is consistent with my position. White priders often resist the melding of any non-white pride culture into American culture and resist the retention of any of that cultures traditions even when they neither harm nor trump American culture. This is where white priders fail America and show themselves to be anti-US and anti- what the founding fathers intended.

You seem to be speaking my language here. Words do mean something.

I am not the extremist you think I am. If you read my posts you would see that I am against all extremists...right and left.

If White Pride isn't necessarily American pride--then I don't know what is. If a Puerto Rican living in Puerto Rico isn't proud of being a Puerto Rican--then I don't know who would be.

Nope. American Pride is American Pride. Puerto Ricans in the US can have American Pride as can blacks as can asians. See? American Pride has nothing to do with skin color and does not discriminate against ethnicities.

By slow progress, do you mean being less prideful as an American by getting to understand a multiculturalist's reluctance to become a full fledged American in lieu of their penchant to remain a foreigner?

No. I mean putting one's American Pride ahead of one's pride in one's skin color.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by ptsdkid
***America an intolerant nation?...LOL! That was precious, Bilko. There are some nations that will execute you if you're found driving while under the influence. Name for me another country that takes in every kind of national immigrant known to mankind--besides America. Name another nation that spends as much money on the welfare of foreign countries--as does America. I'll realize that you were just joking with that statement, if I don't see another response from you on this issue

No I'm not joking. Stop lying to yourself and take a look around you. This nation is full of intolerance for other cultures, other races and other ways of life. This nation is also very accomodating to the very same. Why is everything so black and white? Thinking we are either completely intolerant or not intolerant at all is bullshit! Those aren't the only choices.

This thread was started out of intolerance for other races. Look at how muslim's are viewed by many Americans. Some people want to put up a Berlin wall along the mexican border because of intolerance of undocumented workers. It's all around you, dude.

But there are many Americans that are sensitive to other cultures and don't feel threatened by them. They accept their American heritage and don't think it is wrong for others to keep theirs. I don't think people should be made to "assimilate American" if they live in this country. I would like them too. But if they choose not too, so what!

 

[ptsdkid]

Ah, Kid, I coined the phrase American Pride. Don't forget to give me credit. I'll expect my residual check in the mail. :mrgreen:

***Yeah, and I coined the phrase 'American Pie'. How many slices of apple pie do you suppose are left to divy up between the millions of illegals that pick apples for a living in their natural homeland?

Hmmm...I wonder how much money I can make on repeats...

***Keep looking...check is in the mail!